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Shimano 6700 Ultegra vs. 7900 Dura Ace -- functional difference?

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Shimano 6700 Ultegra vs. 7900 Dura Ace -- functional difference?

Old 03-15-10, 09:40 PM
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Shimano 6700 Ultegra vs. 7900 Dura Ace -- functional difference?

Has anyone ridden/owned both? I understand that there is a weight difference of about 1/3 pound -- almost all of it in the crankset. I understand the Dura Ace levers have a different reach adjustment method than the Ultegra.

But here's the real question: Is there a FUNCTIONAL difference between 6700 Ultegra and 7900 Dura Ace? Why the $700 difference?
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Old 03-15-10, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo
Has anyone ridden/owned both? I understand that there is a weight difference of about 1/3 pound -- almost all of it in the crankset. I understand the Dura Ace levers have a different reach adjustment method than the Ultegra.

But here's the real question: Is there a FUNCTIONAL difference between 6700 Ultegra and 7900 Dura Ace? Why the $700 difference?
The DA crank is only 60 grams lighter. Everything is slightly lighter, total difference between the groups is about 200 grams. You can get half of that by simply using a D.A. cassette (I think that's 70 grams or so) and BB, which you can always upgrade to for relatively modest cost. On my Scott Addict I have Ultegra, but the BB and the Cassette are Dura Ace, so the net weight savings for me upgrading to D.A. components would only be about 100 grams at this point. I can add Zero G brakes and save that, but I'm very pleased with the Ultegra braking.

So the short answer is that yes there is a functional difference: Ultegra 6700 is better. Go figure.
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Old 03-15-10, 10:10 PM
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If you want FD trim, you need Ultegra.
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Old 03-15-10, 10:23 PM
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Thanks for the quick replies. Even when I rode 7800, I used the 6600 cassettes. The Dura Ace is lighter, but wears more quickly and costs a whole lot more. Besides that, the "lightness" is located at a fairly harmless location.

I'm riding 6700 now. Sounds as if I'm not missing much.
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Old 03-16-10, 07:49 AM
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I've heard a complaint on 6700 from someone and want to see if it's bothering anyone else. I'll try to describe as clearly as possible:

When either brake lever is pressed inward, even ever so slightly by a couple millimeters, as if fingers are wrapped around the hoods in a neutral, ready position, the smaller upshift shift button is disabled. The complaint I heard was of delays caused by trying to upshift but the lever swings with no effect.

Now, in normal relaxed riding, just being precise is easy, but in a race, I often keep a little lateral pressure on the brake levers with my first and index fingers while shifting with my ring and pinky fingers. It's easy to do with SRAM, the brake lever is fixed laterally.

Anybody racing 6700 notice this issue?
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Old 03-16-10, 09:49 AM
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I know they work great, but the biggest screwjob pricewise is the DA7900 brakes. Double the price of 7800? Go to hell, Shimano.
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Old 03-16-10, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by heads up!
I've heard a complaint on 6700 from someone and want to see if it's bothering anyone else. I'll try to describe as clearly as possible:

When either brake lever is pressed inward, even ever so slightly by a couple millimeters, as if fingers are wrapped around the hoods in a neutral, ready position, the smaller upshift shift button is disabled. The complaint I heard was of delays caused by trying to upshift but the lever swings with no effect.

Now, in normal relaxed riding, just being precise is easy, but in a race, I often keep a little lateral pressure on the brake levers with my first and index fingers while shifting with my ring and pinky fingers. It's easy to do with SRAM, the brake lever is fixed laterally.

Anybody racing 6700 notice this issue?
I've had the problem when wearing arctic-weight gloves. Otherwise, not a problem, even with normal weight, full-finger gloves. And I habitually rest a finger or two against the side of the brake lever. I have to intentionally press the lever sideways to duplicate the problem.
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Old 03-16-10, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo
Has anyone ridden/owned both? I understand that there is a weight difference of about 1/3 pound -- almost all of it in the crankset. I understand the Dura Ace levers have a different reach adjustment method than the Ultegra.

But here's the real question: Is there a FUNCTIONAL difference between 6700 Ultegra and 7900 Dura Ace? Why the $700 difference?
What reach adjustment. I have Ultegra 6700 and the only reach adjustment I know of is using the spacers (bought separately) above the brake levers. Is there something else I'm not aware of?

I use the 10mm spacers which puts the levers pretty close to the bar which I like unless I have thick gloves on, in which case I use the 5mm spacers. I'm a newb to the world or road riding (1 year, nearly) so I haven't used anything other than Shimano Atlas on my hybrid and Ultegra 6700 on my Specialized Roubaix so I can't comment on the DA.
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Old 03-16-10, 11:30 AM
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SRAM got it right by making their groupsets functionally identical, and if you want the bling you can pay for it.
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Old 03-16-10, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tekhna
SRAM got it right by making their groupsets functionally identical, and if you want the bling you can pay for it.
Ignoring the functional difference of the Red rear shifter (has Zero-Loss while Force and Rival don't), correct.
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Old 03-16-10, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo
I've had the problem when wearing arctic-weight gloves. Otherwise, not a problem, even with normal weight, full-finger gloves. And I habitually rest a finger or two against the side of the brake lever. I have to intentionally press the lever sideways to duplicate the problem.
That's encouraging. Thanks for the info.
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Old 03-16-10, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by heads up!
Ignoring the functional difference of the Red rear shifter (has Zero-Loss while Force and Rival don't), correct.
Right, fair point. Had forgotten about zero loss.
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Old 03-16-10, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tekhna
SRAM got it right by making their groupsets functionally identical, and if you want the bling you can pay for it.
campagnolo has been this way for a very very long time. you can even swap internal parts between 8,9, and 10 speed shifters. (i have not been in 11spd yet)

the only time i can think of that they really strayed from this in modern times was the extinct "escape" shifters
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Old 03-16-10, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by thirdgenbird
campagnolo has been this way for a very very long time. you can even swap internal parts between 8,9, and 10 speed shifters. (i have not been in 11spd yet)

the only time i can think of that they really strayed from this in modern times was the extinct "escape" shifters
Source? I've never heard of Campy being functionally identical across the line. Parts being swapable doesn't make them identical.
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Old 03-16-10, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tekhna
Source? I've never heard of Campy being functionally identical across the line. Parts being swapable doesn't make them identical.
if you tear the shifters apart down the line all the parts are the same, it is just the materials and finishes that change.

on 10spd levers the internal shafts are identical in size. the record, chorus, and maybe daytona levers have an aluminum one, and the lower groups have a steel shaft but they are 100% swappable. the same goes for the brake blades, shift levers(jsut the actual lever itself), derailleur cages, brake hoods, shift lever bodies...

look at campys websites. they actually boast that athena is mechanically identical to record just uses more steel and aluminum and less carbon and titanium.

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Old 03-16-10, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by heads up!
I've heard a complaint on 6700 from someone and want to see if it's bothering anyone else. I'll try to describe as clearly as possible:

When either brake lever is pressed inward, even ever so slightly by a couple millimeters, as if fingers are wrapped around the hoods in a neutral, ready position, the smaller upshift shift button is disabled. The complaint I heard was of delays caused by trying to upshift but the lever swings with no effect.

Now, in normal relaxed riding, just being precise is easy, but in a race, I often keep a little lateral pressure on the brake levers with my first and index fingers while shifting with my ring and pinky fingers. It's easy to do with SRAM, the brake lever is fixed laterally.

Anybody racing 6700 notice this issue?
You probably heard it from me about this. It was a problem for me, especially when I was just beginning to ride my new Tarmac, that it would do that, and I didn't realize it until later that, as you described, if the brake levers are being pressed inward ever so slightly, the smaller upshift lever will not actually shift. However, since I have come to realize this and the cause, I have come to be more conscious of my hand position as well as where my fingers are holding, and therefore it doesn't happen anymore.
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Old 03-16-10, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by acaurora
You probably heard it from me about this. It was a problem for me, especially when I was just beginning to ride my new Tarmac, that it would do that, and I didn't realize it until later that, as you described, if the brake levers are being pressed inward ever so slightly, the smaller upshift lever will not actually shift. However, since I have come to realize this and the cause, I have come to be more conscious of my hand position as well as where my fingers are holding, and therefore it doesn't happen anymore.
Actually heard it first from a teammate, but thanks for confirming.

Question: have you raced the group? Just wondering if learning how to use them goes out the window when you're at max heart rate and focused on a sprint.
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Old 03-16-10, 12:45 PM
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I do not race, but when I do try shifting very quickly when doing sprints in the A rides I have become accustomed to, as I said before, being conscious of hand position. Ever since I posted about this issue several weeks ago, it has not happened to me since.
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