Smaller Bike.

As others have mentioned, try riding with bent arms, elbows down, shoulders rolled down, not hunched, belly button pushed down. As you do this, you will find yourself moving back on your seat, and you will probably want to try moving your seat back. Try a setback seat post if you aren't using one presently. Remember, you'll need to readjust your seat height if you move your seat back. If your seat is already at a proper for-aft position, then it may be time for a longer stem.

When I first started riding again in my 40's, I did everything I could to reduce the seat to handlebar distance because it felt too stretched out. As I've worked on my form, I've gone the other way -- moving my seat back and my handlebars forward and down. (Nothing drastic, just a 10 mm seat-to-bar drop, I am a purely recreational rider)

Yes, I can. At least enough to make a pretty educated guess. I am a rowing coach with over 15 years experience at a pretty high level (Division 1 college, US U23 National Team, US National Team, US Olympic Team, Dutch National Team, Dutch Olympic Team). 5 of my guys competed in Beijing. Anyway, from that picture, I can see that he has nearly all his weight on the very back of the saddle, and not much on the bars. From the rotation of his pelvis, the curve of his spine and his straight arms, I can see that it is not easy/comfortable for him to reach the bars. I can see that nearly all of his reach is coming not from his hip joint, but from his mid trunk and upper back, causing the hunch. His lower back right near the hip joint is nearly vertical, right where he should be getting most of his reach (look at pictures of pros). I am willing to bet that the OP cannot easily touch his toes with a flat back and straight legs. The fact that he states he gets back soreness after riding reaffirms my theory. Bike riding should not hurt your back.

We see back issues in rowing all the time and nearly all of them have to do with poor flexibility, inadequate core strength, and posture. I am pretty good at picking them out.

Better positioning could help, but improving flexibility, IMHO, would be the biggest bang for his buck.

Flexibility is a kind of strength. In my own personal experience, my strength coach, Mike Boyle, was convinced I was not close to my true 1RM on the front squat and it was because of my low back and hamstring flexibility. I did a max test for front squat and topped out at 245, which hurt a lot but I didn't feel like I was topping out my legs at all. It just hurt. Mike told me he could guarantee I would put up over 300lbs a week later. He had me do nothing but stretch for 5 days. No lifting at all. No other exercise either. Just stretch. As expected, my flexibility improved. What shocked me was that less than a week after struggling with 245lbs, I put up 360lbs -and felt so much stronger...

To make it clear how silly it would be to raise saddle height to increase your drop, think of it this way: It will make your butt higher but not change your frontal area at all. The reason to have a lot of drop is mostly to get in a more aerodynamic position. So there is no aero benefit to raising your saddle, and it will likely be the wrong position for your legs. Saddle height should be set for your knees and that is all. Fore/aft position should be set for weight distribution and that is all.

Ok....your guessing. Thats better.
For what it is worth I see this everyday in my profession as a trained fitter at a pretty busy shop. You may be correct but it could just as easily being a piss poor fit that is forcing him into that position. I think you are putting the cart before the horse in trying to guess his fitness and flexibility by looking at him on the bike. The bike needs to fit him, not vice versa. Without seeing him off of the bike I would never venture to guess about his flexibility or core muscles.

I"m around 6'3, and the bike is a 60. You're not the first person to say that...

You are correct, I do have tight hamstrings. However I am working on that, I stretch almost everyday.


I see...



I'll check that site out, thanks.

Not sure if you saw what I said earlier, but regarding my fit, when I bought the bike 3 years ago I was fitted for a recreational position. And I'm racing now and I've changed a lot of stuff. So that "piss poor fit" is my doing. I guess I could just go get refitted.

you could also try a 17/73 stem if you are currently using 6/84

I saw that.....Over 3 years of riding your fitness will change drastically and as such so will your fit. Saddle height and fore and aft will not change but reach and drop can and will.

I don't think any conclusions can be drawn from that picture.

+1 pictures are snapshots in time, no context makes the photo useless. Was hammering as hard as he could go? Coasting around a corner? Sitting up, turning his head and getting ready to look behind him? We just can't tell.

I guess you could say I was pedaling around the corner. Not really hammering, but not coasting either. Not gonna look behind me though.

Now we have context! Your bike is too small. ;)

Do they go bigger than 60cm? lol. Looks like the next size up with cannondale would be a 63cm!

oh snap...it has just been broughten'

You're a pretty tall and lanky dude... relax, so am I.

I've been fitted and still look jacked up on the bike; my back is arched like yours when in the drops also. It doesn't bother me, nothing hurts and it doesn't feel like I'm resting all my weight on my arms. Frame is a 61, stem is a 110 IIRC. Don't remember what the saddle-to-stem height differential is.

Ok so here's what I did. I noticed while sitting on the bike, that if I point the saddle down slightly (used to be perfectly level) This forces me, as the one guy said "stick my butt out" or "roll my pelvis", which then straightens out my back more. I also noticed I had my handle bars bent downward quite far, which was probably making me reach for the roods. So I turned those up slightly. Well see how it works out.

Ya know, and I'm not saying this to sound smarmy, but I've noticed the same thing in marching bands.

Some back issues are inevitable -- carrying 50 lbs of drum can do that -- but even the clarinet players can suffer if their posture is bad. One clarinetist was talking to me about how her back was hurting after rehearsals, so I asked, "Do you roll your shoulders back and settle your weight on your hips like our director says?" She said that she did, so I told her, "Don't do that. It's entirely wrong." I told her how to stay more neutral and more balanced, maybe even fixing her posture right there in the hallway. After a week, I asked about her back, and she said it felt great.

In the marching music world, there are a lot of yoga, core strength, and flexibility principles behind the best ensembles and performers. I'm coming up on 25 years since my rookie season of high school marching band, and what I've learned as a performer and instructor applies pretty readily to any other physical activity.

So, when I saw the pic he posted, I thought the same thing as you did -- "He's sitting square on his butt, and he's bending at his stomach. Man, that looks like it hurts. The spine is supposed to support, not bend in half."

+1. Instead of asking a bunch of internet geeks, get a pro fit. If you're in the SoCal area, I'll go out on a limb and recommend Eric Bowden of Bikfit. He's a mobile bike fitter and does pro fits from San Diego to Los Angeles. It's about a 4 hour session, but he'll dial you in.

4 hours! jimmy crickets! Does he have a website or something?