bathedinshadow

I did catch another thread on this topic, but it was pretty specific to the exact bike the person was looking for.

I have definitely bargained with shops in the past and been successful. However, that was with a bike that seemed to have varying prices at every store.

After some thorough research and test rides, I have finally decided on buying the Argon 18 Krypton Ultegra. It's slightly above my price range, but doable. I'm living in Vancouver, and have got a quote from pretty much every shop in BC that sells them and they are all pretty much exactly the same, coming in at $3050.00 CAD. I am definitely somebody that will hunt for a good price and so I have called down to the closest store in the states and they surprisingly are asking MORE.

Anyway, this price is the MRSP, there is no real bargaining chip that I can think of and I'm not sure how well that would go over. Any suggestions or experiences with stores like Mighty Riders, John Henry, or Speed Theory? I have no attachment to any local shop as I'm originally from the states. Should I try bargaining or just suck it up and pay the money?

Thanks, reading these forums so far has been really helpful in my search!

darb85

youd probably have better luck dealing on the accessories. The margin on bikes is realitivly low compared to those and alot of shops cant really give the deals. you might knock 40 50 bucks off the bike but id go for say 20 percent off accessories to get your deal there, though higher priced bikes have a bit more margin built in so that might help

kleinboogie

Not a problem here in Southern California. As a member of the tri-club we get 10% off sponsor stores like Trek and Nytro which basically covers the tax (currently 8.25%). Little known fact is other stores will honor the 10% as well or waive the tax plus 20% off some other stuff so it all essentially works out to 10%. You might look for the equivalent situation near you. GL

BentLink

I've had some luck bargaining on an older model bike that had been in inventory for a few years. In this case, an '08 as the '10 models were rolling in to be built. The shop was in a college town and it was just before the term started. I guess they figured they could make more from new MTBs than having a carbon road bike (Specialized Roubaix) taking up space.

gsteinb

For all the guys like me who get the super secret discounts there needs to be a balance of those who pay retail. Man up, do your part, and whip out that credit card.

AngryScientist 

we live in NJ, the land of super-secret back room deals.

nahh

Honestly from my experience the margin from wholesale price to MSRP is pretty high for bikes. Usually wholesale + 10% (an employee discount) is about 60-70% of MSRP.

I don't know about import prices to Canada (although they're imported into the states too...) but the margin isn't SO low they couldn't bargin, they just won't. See if they'll throw in accessories for you.

jdon

Wrong time of year to bargain on bikes unless it is stale inventory. Why would they give bikes away at the time of year they make their profit that keeps them open in the slow months? You can get a small discount but certainly nothing approaching 20%. Either pay-up or wait until winter.

roby

No **** heh? Knew the owner of the bike shop since he opened it when I was in high school, the first wheel he ever built from scratch was mine, great guy. Told him I was looking for a bike, but my price range was sort of low. Had found some 08's elsewhere on sale while window shopping and called him to see if he had more 08's left too as I obviously want to give him a shot at selling me a bike. He thanked me and came back with a counter offer of an 09 for the same price. The 08 was heavily discounted... MSRP of an 09 was $2700, got the bike for $1850

Find yourself an LBS (small one) and keep going to him. Send all your friends and make sure they know you sent them. I specifically asked my LBS guy if anyone mentions my name, will they get "a better deal". I told him it makes it easier to refer someone this way. He agreed! Last year I bought my Tarmac Comp, a Ruby Comp and FSR XC Pro from him, some accessories and my cousin purchased a Allez as well (got 400$off). This year I just picked up a Chariot CX2. As soon as that's paid off and I have coin, I'll be getting 2 trainers and my cousin plans on a trainer too.

Treat them well, they treat you well, if it's a bigger shop, always go and talk to the same guy. Wait for him if he's busy!

achoo

You have plenty of bargaining chips: it's your money you're spending.

You might want to offer $2500. Just be prepared to walk out without the bike - because that IS your leverage.

And if you make that offer on, say, the day before inventory taxes are calculated (do things like that happen in Canada? I assume they do...), you have even more leverage.

emj2390

you wouldn't haggle on the price for a gallon of milk would you? why does it change when you enter a bike shop? they're both consumer goods.... if you go to the grocery store and buy milk and a glass for the milk and a container of oreos to dip in the milk do you ask for a discount on the accessories? if they could afford to sell the bikes for cheaper do you think they would?

vjp

I am in Vancouver also and ride on/with the Mighty Riders. They are about the only "old school" lbs left in Vancouver, a little gruff, a very eclectic variety of bikes and parts (as opposed to a store that is all one brand like Trek) and the best mechanics in town, they will NOT kiss your ass but they WILL tell you what you need to know.

John Henry would be more convenient if you are in NV and they have excellent customer service. I did a photoshoot in their store for one of my clients (Brodie) and they were so nice that I bought a bike for my son from them.

The Argon bikes are very nice, good luck!

vjp

Eclectus

I go with achoo's logic. It's your money. I haven't had any success here in Kansas. Let me put it this way. Prices are jacked waay over MSRP, and so if you deal to MSRP, they make you feel like they are doing you a special favor. Weird retailing strategy, IMHO. Higher prices started in the olden days when freight costs were high. Not so today, but the old practices still persist.

CA may have the best pricing. It's definitely great for last year's Specialized bikes. There, with all-year sales, dealers unload last-year's models in fall to make way for this year's models, in fall. Here in KS, last year's models are full price until late spring, 9 months after the new models have been out.

I just go online. I know how to service my bikes mostly. I'd be embarrassed to say to the LBS, "I got this bike way cheaper than your price, can you set it up for me?" I probably shouldn't feel bad--they make money on $40/hr labor charge, that's worth something to their cash-flow. Even if I had a Wal-Mart or BD bike, it would be profitable for them to service it.

Actually, I like this motorcycle guy and a family bike shop (dad and sons) if I am stuck. They're very knowledgeable and competent. But on retail sales, they're small shops, don't get discounts from suppliers, their MSRP+ prices are too high for me.

Like I wanted a Park Tool Crown race-setter kit. Everywhere online it was $69. They wanted $90-95 here. I'm not doing that. I refuse.

If I need something carried by QBP in Minnesota, if I special order it here, it is above MSRP. I have to drive to pick it up. If I order it from Jenson's in Cali, it just gets shipped directly to my house from QBP. I'm sorry that Jenson's can get big-volume discounts that my LBS's can't, but on the other hand, they have an opportunity to copycat Ace and TrueValue hardware stores to form big-volume buying co-ops, and pass on savings to customers, but they aren't doing it.

To my way of looking at things, they are losing sales because they aren't figuring the market elements out, and adapting to stay competitive.

On MSRP per se, manufacturers cannot legally make retaillers sell at set prices to end-consumers. It's illegal for them to make retailers charge this, or lose their supply streams. If LBSs banded into large co-ops, they could make small contributions to large aggregate attorney fees to stop this. It's not in mfrs legal purview to control end-chain retailing. MSRP is Manufacturer SUGGESTED Retail Price. When SUGGESTED becomes DICTATED, that's illegal.

You can say, " Well, it is a voluntary-contract issue," but when EVERY contractee across America must agree to sell at MSRP (minimum) to receive mfrs' products, that becomes MDRP, which is illegal for mfrs to impose. It is unfortunate they are getting away with this dictatorialism.

icyclist 

"you wouldn't haggle on the price for a gallon of milk would you? why does it change when you enter a bike shop?"

If I wanted to buy $3000 of milk, I'd be able to get a discount. It's the same with anything else - the more expensive the purchase, the greater the chance for a significant discount - cars, houses, jewelry, etc.

OP - go into a shop, and ask what can been done to help you out. As in, "What will you charge me for this bike?" The more expensive the bike, the larger the potential discount. If the shop offers a discount less than you want, then give them your price. There's no harm in asking. On a new, $3000 bike in California, you should be able to get the shop to knock off at least $100.

kleinboogie

For what it's worth. https://vimeo.com/7605681 look around timestamp 2:20. John Neugent says average profit margins are, "30% bike companies, 50% aftermarket companies, 40% bike dealers". I have no information for or against but it sounds similar to the music equipment industry which I used to follow. If it's true then 10% off still leaves a decent profit for the dealers. They wouldn't do the deal if they couldn't afford to let it go at that price. They have a lot of factors to consider. I've seen a manager cranking the numbers in putting various wheels with framesets and adding in all the >40% profit stuff in to close the deal. His offers were what I'd expect of a business owner who needed to move product and make a profit. Interesting stuff.

Bob Dopolina 

30% a decent margin? Really?

From that they have to pay ALL their fixed costs like salaries, electricity, taxes and other business expenses.

They also have to eat the cost of any bikes that aren't sold that season and very often sell them at cost or below a year later taking a hit to the bottom line.

The bike industry has about the lowest profit margins of ANY retail business. They guys are making squat. They'd make far more money from opening a quickie mart.

BTW I worked in retail in the bike industry for MANY years.

Bianchigirll 

personally as former shop employee I always hated when people asked for deal. I just spent somewhere between and hour and several hours showing them several bike perhaps on multiple trips into the store. after using all my knowledge and time they wish to have their purchase discounted, but then want it assembled in perfect working order NOW, demand to be seen immediatly as soon as they hear the slightest noise, expect it to adjusted to their every whim. so if I am lucky enough to have a 25-30% margin on a $3000 and give them all that free time and service plus a discount how do I keep the lights on?

go to the shop you are most comfortable in and pay their price but as suggested ask for a deal on accesories. then become somewhat loyal to them. while never buying a bike from them my favorite store treats me very well and do a suprising number of things for me for no charge.

kleinboogie

No doubt there are better businesses but since it's the business they chose and likely love we should do what we can to support them. If they feel price matching is a valid business practice then that seems like a win-win. I trust they know how to run their business.

ultraman6970

Are u sure about that bob? Have a friend with a store in colorado, we know to each other since we were 14 years old and i havent get a single thing from his store ever, 1st he deosnt carry stuff i like, secondly the discounts arent more than 10% and for 10 percent is better for me go online. Untill today he hasnt tell me whats the secret behind the profit %. I doubt is less than 35%, in a matter of fact if somebody wants a discount what he does is change wheels for cheaper ones and stuff like that. In that way he keeps the inventory moving but he never lose money that's for sure a fact.

In my opinion prices are so highly inflated that nobody knows exactly how much is the original price of any item. Just like how it happens with cars for example. Then we ask ourselves how is that PBK or those UK online stores can offer those super low prices. I'm sure they go to the factory with a few millions, they do the shipping themselves and leave the distributor out.

If the OP is talking about a high end bike is better go for the frame sometimes, it is easy to get a good deal in a frame at that level than for the whole bike.

Thanks.

recon455

Yes, get a discount on accesories. Bike Shops are usually prepared to make a discount on accesories if you just ask for one.
Although, the profit margin goes down for more expensive bikes, keystone pricing becomes less practical the higher price you go.

There seems to be a standard 20% off wholesale for Employee Purchase of bikes, at least American brands.

This isn't Craigslist. These are small businesses trying to make it. That is just low balling.

Hunt for deals, wait for sales if you want, and see what kind of deals you can get, but don't be a jerk and expect someone to cut into their bottom line like that.

bathedinshadow

No, I would not haggle on a gallon of milk. However, milk does not cost 3k either. I would haggle on the price of a car, rent, buying on craigslist, and several other things. I think buying a bike would be more in that arena, and I certainly don't think any reasonable person would compare a 3k bike to a gallon of milk. I am also aware that at least with mtb's, the price is largely inflated when dealing with expensive bikes. I bought my brand new/current year 5k bike for 3800.00. Haggling pays off! With that said, I'm not sure what the inflation is like for road bikes so I figured I'd ask around.


Thanks. I did like the non-pushy feel of might riders. They were asking a little more for the bike than most places though. John Henry is great actually... at least for mtb stuff. I've been hesitant to go with them though because I'm concerned that they are too mtb focused and mightn't be the most knowledgeable re: road bikes. Do you think there is any truth to that or am I just being overly cautious?

marksru16

Asking for a discount doesn't have to be obnoxious. I've done it with some success. Just said - "hey, I love this product but it's above what I can pay. My budget is $X, can you work with me?" This obviously works better in the winter months when a shop needs the sales more desperately than now, when shops are getting busy. Some shops may say no thanks if they are confident they can move it at full price, and depends on item and demand. But that is business. They are doing the same thing with distributors and manufacturers. Ever wonder why a shop is pushing one kind of bike (local shop by me is always pushing C-Dale), its because they've HAGGLED and are getting a better deal on those bikes, so they have a higher profit margin (and some room to negotiate with you).

Bctrider

If you want a big discount, don't go to them with problems. If you want A1 aftercare, go with their price. They'll give you ongoing deals.

Eclectus

A lot of companies are sticking retailers with MSRP. But the mfrs themselves are going to China to get lowest costs for themselves. Do uou see what their illegal scamming is? "We find the cheapest mfring cost we can, there is no Minimum Suggested Factory Price. But when stuff gets shipped to
America, there is a Minimum Dictated Retailers Price. Do you have any idea how illegal that is?

If LBSs banded together, and indivdual LBSs in the coop set their own prices, so long as the coop paid what mfrs wanted, mfrs cannot set retail prices. They lose in court and pay damages, including punitive. So the mfrs end up saying, "You do deals with us, it's not our purview to say what you charge end-retail customers."

If LBSs go coop, they can take control. They get stuff cheaper. They can sell stuff cheaper and make a sustainable buck

vjp

John Henry is foremost a mtb shop but I would think they have a grip on their product line-up whether road or mtb. Fit might be a different issue and I would give the nod to Mighty.

cheers

vjp