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Probably ordering a 2010 Giant Defy 1

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Probably ordering a 2010 Giant Defy 1

Old 04-20-10, 11:28 PM
  #1  
ballistic
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Probably ordering a 2010 Giant Defy 1

I rode a Defy 3 and a Rapid 3 today at the LBS. Two nice bikes. I'm assuming the Defy 1 will be even better. I was initially adverse to drop handlebars, but they're growing on me. The Rapid has big handles, unlike the Trek I tried, where my hands were always jammed up against the controls. However, I imagine I'll want drop handlebars eventually, so why not now? And I like having options for hand positions. Lastly, I like the Defy 1's strong showing of Shimano 105 components as well.

He said the Defy 1 would be $1250 ($1335 with tax) and the Defy 2 would be around $1000 ($1068 with tax). Do I still have room to haggle?

Questions:
1) The Defy 1 has other upgrades, but are they, and 105, worth $267 over Tiagra (Defy 2)?
2) Defy 1 doesn't come with pedals, so what normal pedals should I get and where?
3) The Rapid comes with hybrid tires that are more rugged, and they may be bigger than 25c, which the Defy uses. Are there rugged 25c tires?
4) The LBS had only L frames available. My inseam is about 36in., so I should be on a bike around 60cm, so I should have him order an XL (58.5cm), yes?
5) Are the double-paddle brake/shifter assemblies as reliable as the single-paddle/thumb-lever assemblies?
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Old 04-21-10, 12:00 AM
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I've got the Defy 3

awesome bike

my 1st I love it
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Old 04-21-10, 12:26 AM
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From my experience in talking with other cyclists, people do like the 105s. They are a good balance in terms of value and performance.
- As for pedals, it is entirely up to you. I have SPD-SL pedals, but a majority of the people I ride with have either Look or Speedplay pedals.
- It depends on what you mean by "rugged". There are tires that are more puncture-resistant than others, if that's what you're looking for. But keep in mind the tradeoff of comfort, as well as rolling resistance.
- I do not know anything about Giant's sizing
- The Tiagra/105/higher shifter assemblies in my opinion "feel" and function better than the Sora shifters, which were what I had on my Allez. However I cannot really comment about the reliability, as I haven't really had any problems with my shifters (other than the shifters skipping, but it is a common "issue" with the Ultegra 6700s that can be remedied after a few months of use and just watching where/how you shift)

Other differences between the Defy 1 and the Defy 2 -
- It appears the Defy 1 only is available (at least on Giant's site) in a triple, which is a bit strange at least in my opinion. The Defy 2 comes in a compact / triple configurations. The compacts tend to be better in that they have the same range as a triple, but do not have the weight / risk of dropping a chain as triples do.
- The Defy 1 is 10 speed, whereas the Defy 2 is 9 speed, which can limit your upgrade options later down the line.
- Different saddle

I would say go with the Defy 1 - Having 105 would be a good place to go with. Then, possibly later on (or maybe the shop will do it? I'm not sure), switch the triple out for a compact. Aesthetically speaking, though, I like the Defy 2's colors better
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Old 04-21-10, 12:31 AM
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105 is the sweet spot for price and performance. I upgraded to Dura Ace because I got a great deal on used parts, but my 105 was not holding me back during rides or races.
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Old 04-21-10, 12:37 AM
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Thanks for the replies. I've been looking at helmets. Do most road cyclists wear these visor-less helmets? I'm surprised to find out that visors basically come only on MTB helmets.

For pedals, I guess the type I'm looking for are platform pedals. Any recommendations?
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Old 04-21-10, 12:47 AM
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You would almost certainly want the XL instead of L frame. In any case the shop should have no problem with you exchanging your XL for an L if they special order it for you and you decide you like the L better.
There are plenty of durable 25mm tire options. But (imo) don't worry about tires too much until you wear out your first set that comes with the bike and decide where to go from there.
Can't go wrong with 105 level components.
And, if you've never used clipless, why not get cheapo platform pedals to start out. I like SPD MTB style but it's personal preference. There are plenty of threads about this topic.
Have fun
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Old 04-21-10, 12:47 AM
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105 is worth it, $267 leaves the bike shop some room for profit. Go with look KEO pedals or durace pedals. 105 or ultegra pedals would save some money but gain a little weight. Make sure you haggle with the bike shop to get the exact tires that you want at the time of purchase (make them earn that profit their making on the upgraded groupo). There is every kind of tire out there that you can imagine. Not only have them order the correct XL size, but vocalize the fact that you should be on a 60cm and the XL is a 58, have them swap the stems and bars if needed to get a better fit.
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Old 04-21-10, 12:57 AM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by Motobetird View Post
Make sure you haggle with the bike shop to get the exact tires that you want at the time of purchase (make them earn that profit their making on the upgraded groupo). There is every kind of tire out there that you can imagine.
But what tires do I want? Bike paths and roads will be 95% of my riding probably. I suppose I don't really need the rugged tires the Rapid comes with (Kenda Kwest). But should I haggle for better tires then? This is a small bike shop. The owner is probably the only employee, and probably the mechanic as well. At least he was the only one in the shop today. I'm not suspecting much haggle room, but I suppose he's got dollar signs in his eyes since I'm ordering a much higher-end bike than what he stocks.

Originally Posted by Motobetird View Post
Not only have them order the correct XL size, but vocalize the fact that you should be on a 60cm and the XL is a 58, have them swap the stems and bars if needed to get a better fit.
Swap them for what, exactly?
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Old 04-21-10, 04:03 AM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by ballistic View Post
But what tires do I want? Bike paths and roads will be 95% of my riding probably. I suppose I don't really need the rugged tires the Rapid comes with (Kenda Kwest). But should I haggle for better tires then? This is a small bike shop. The owner is probably the only employee, and probably the mechanic as well. At least he was the only one in the shop today. I'm not suspecting much haggle room, but I suppose he's got dollar signs in his eyes since I'm ordering a much higher-end bike than what he stocks.


Swap them for what, exactly?
Hi...I actually sell these bikes. A lot of them.

There is nothing wrong with the Defy 1 as is. The wheels are fine. Further, the XL bike is not a 58, it's actually larger than that. It fits a rider that is at least 6'3" tall and begins at a conventional size of 63cm. I ride a 60 Cannondale and am 6'2" and it's too big for me. Further, if you look on the seat tube you will see the sizing and height ranges the bike fits.

http://archive.giant-bicycles.com/us...50.600.100.asp
for help...hopefully this link works.

This is a really nice bike. Giant redid this frame two years ago and took a pound and a half out of it versus the old OCR frame. It provides a more upright riding position and a slightly longer wheelbase allowing you to ride more "up" than stretched out (like a race bike) and the wheelbase increase makes it softer and less reactive. Great recreational bike.

The reason the mountain bike helmets have a visor is for face protection when riding single track (tree limbs, leaves, etc hanging down). They are also vented differently than a road helmet. Road helmet vents are designed to be quieter at a quicker speed. MTB riders don't generally ride, consistently, as quickly as a road rider so the larger vents keep your head cooler at the slower speeds. As a result the MTB helmets can be a bit noisy when ridden on the road. But there's no helmet police out there so do whatever you like.

To whomever mentioned tires (I love this stuff where the advice to to demand this and that...this is a nice bike, but it's entry level folks and it's designed to be a really nice bike for a recreational rider and it's outfitted with components to make that type of ride enjoyable, safe, and long lasting) this bike comes with Kenda Kriterium 700x25. They are fine, thicker, and will make your ride a bit softer. They are also more flat resistant and will last longer.

Pedals...for a rider that's not yet ready to make the jump to clipless, I suggest the toe clip pedals. If you go clipless you are looking at pedals generally between $110-175 (although the cheaper ones will be fine for someone starting out) and shoes in the low to mid $100 range. Toe clip pedals are about $20 and you can ride in your running shoes if you like. But it's not real confortable.

And 105 is worth it. Hope that helps.

Have fun!

Last edited by roadwarrior; 04-21-10 at 04:32 AM.
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Old 04-21-10, 09:55 AM
  #10  
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Wow, thanks.

I'm not sure I want to dive right in with toe clips. I don't want to fall on my new bike and muck it up. I think platform pedals are the right way to go for now.

For frame size, I took these measurements myself, but they should be close enough. How large are the XL frames. Probably around 60 then? What length do you think I should ride?
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Old 04-21-10, 10:06 AM
  #11  
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You won't regret going with 105. I have an '08 Giant OCR-1 and the tires it came with, Kenda Kontenders, were still going strong at 3,500 miles when I replaced them with Conti GP4000s. You probably want to think about upgrading the seat sooner rather than later. I went with 105 pedals and they're great.
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Old 04-21-10, 10:12 AM
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Shimano 105 platform pedals?
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Old 04-21-10, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ballistic View Post
Wow, thanks.

I'm not sure I want to dive right in with toe clips. I don't want to fall on my new bike and muck it up. I think platform pedals are the right way to go for now.

For frame size, I took these measurements myself, but they should be close enough. How large are the XL frames. Probably around 60 then? What length do you think I should ride?
I agree with RoadWarrior in the previous post. Your dimensions are very similar to mine. I just sold a Large OCR C2 and can assure you that the XL version would have been too big. IMHO the TT measurement is the most important. My $.02
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Old 04-21-10, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ballistic View Post
Shimano 105 platform pedals?
Shimano 105,Ultegra, Dura Ace pedals are all clip in pedals with cleats you have on your cycling shoes. You will want to have "clipless"(even though you do clip in) shoes and pedals eventually. You could start with Wellgo double sided pedals that are clip-in on one side and standard on the other for a start. Follow attached link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wellgo-Dual-Side...a#ht_810wt_939

Last edited by akeelor; 04-21-10 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 04-21-10, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by akeelor View Post
I agree with RoadWarrior in the previous post. Your dimensions are very similar to mine. I just sold a Large OCR C2 and can assure you that the XL version would have been too big. IMHO the TT measurement is the most important. My $.02
That makes sense. On the L, I felt my arms were maybe reaching too far, so a longer TT would've made it worse. If I have him order one, I'll see if he can take measurements and fit me on the L to see if it's the best fit.
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Old 04-21-10, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ballistic View Post
That makes sense. On the L, I felt my arms were maybe reaching too far, so a longer TT would've made it worse. If I have him order one, I'll see if he can take measurements and fit me on the L to see if it's the best fit.
Watch this for general guidelines:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAl_5e7bIHk
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Old 04-21-10, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ballistic View Post
Shimano 105 platform pedals?
No, 105s are clipless. If you go with platforms (that's what I did, since I didn't want to shell out for pedals and shoes after buying the bike), go with something cheap. You'll replace them with clipless long before they wear out.
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Old 04-21-10, 10:55 AM
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I have both a flat bar hybrid and a newer Giant Defy CF roadie. The Rapid probably gave you a sense of feeling more stable due to the flat bars and more than likely probably 32c tires, but you will get use to the feel of the ride on the Defy.

I really like the 105 setup on my Giant, and the brifters are quite reliable. If you get the Rapid and want to put drop bars at a later date more than likely the shifters and brake levers will not be compatable with the drop bars so you would be needing to replace those as well. The drop bars I find more comfortable for longer rides in that you can move your hands around to different positions, with the flat bar your stuck pretty much in one position.

Pedals can go all different directions but I would say to go clipless, decent entry level pedals, that I actually still use are the Shimano M520 SPD on the roadie and M424's on the hybrid. If your nervous about clipless the M424's have a decent platform for riding in regular shoes and also are dual sided clips. This makes it nice so you don't have to fiddle around with which side your on when are clipping in.

Just my opinions based on my experience, I say get the Defy with the 105 setup.
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Old 04-21-10, 11:09 AM
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If you're truly uncomfortable with the drops, see if your LBS will put interrupter/cross levers on the bars so you can ride the tops and still have access to brakes
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Old 04-21-10, 11:15 AM
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I wasn't exactly uncomfortable. Just maybe move the seat forward slightly? My arms felt like they were more locked straight instead of slightly bent, but I wasn't paying much attention to that aspect at the time.
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Old 04-21-10, 12:00 PM
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I hate Giants sizing. S,M,L,XL, why must they Americanize bicycle sizes? I would never buy a Giant for this reason. A lot more goes into the size of a bicycle than your height. They are entry level bikes and it's not rocket science at that point but they should conform to the general sizing set by the industry. If I were you, I would go with 23cm tires to start with. The brand and quality will not be that important, just whatever the bike shop will put on there. But tires are a preference (especially when starting out). You may want the 25cm tires to feel more stable on your bike until you get used to it. As for the pedals, just purchase small metal platform pedals and search for "power grips" to attach to them. This will save you a lot of money not having to purchase shoes for 100+.
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Old 04-21-10, 12:01 PM
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Also, just if you are looking at getting the 105 SPD-SL pedals (they're great pedals, by the way), ChainReaction has them for dirt cheap - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=22687
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Old 04-21-10, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Motobetird View Post
I hate Giants sizing. S,M,L,XL, why must they Americanize bicycle sizes?
Every single one of Giant's road frames are a compact geometry, and you'll find this is how nearly the entire industry measure their compact frames. Seattube length is just as arbitrary a measure as Medium or XL when it comes to a compact frame.
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Old 04-21-10, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by acaurora View Post
Also, just if you are looking at getting the 105 SPD-SL pedals (they're great pedals, by the way), ChainReaction has them for dirt cheap - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=22687
Even cheaper at PBK with the free shipping and USA15 15% discount coupon:

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=M1111
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Old 04-21-10, 12:21 PM
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Love my current and every Giant I have ever owned. The Defy is a sweet bike and the replacement for the OCR i believe from 3 years ago. The Defy 1 is the top of the line, and more than likely w/e the upgrades are cost you that much so it is totally worth it not having to upgrade later. However, if you believe that the 1 groupset is not good enough and you are going to upgrade anyways, maybe a 2 is of better interest.
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