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Do all fluid trainers experience this?

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Do all fluid trainers experience this?

Old 04-21-10, 10:22 AM
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saratoga
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Do all fluid trainers experience this?

I'm looking to buy a new one pretty soon to replace the Blackburn trainer I've had for several years.

My issue is: When doing ST or 2X20's (or 2X30's), the heat generated changes the viscosity of the fluid and the resistance decreases. I'll post a screenshot of the graph later tonight when I'm at home... pwr remains constant while cadence and speed increase until I have to upshift- two to three times per interval. The sudden change in cadence/tq screws with me. It isn't an issue doing on/off or other short duration types of intervals. The other night I just got irritated and stopped about half way through the first one.

I was interested in the cycleops jet fluid pro in case anyone has any comments either way.
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Old 04-21-10, 10:51 AM
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I will beat the next 100 responders and just tell you to buy a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and be done with buying trainers for the rest of your life. You won't have the resistance problem any longer.

Here is why you buy a Kurt kinetic instead of a Cyclops - http://www.kurtkinetic.com/wont_leak.php
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Old 04-21-10, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jrobe View Post
I will beat the next 100 responders and just tell you to buy a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and be done with buying trainers for the rest of your life. You won't have the resistance problem any longer.

Here is why you buy a Kurt kinetic instead of a Cyclops - http://www.kurtkinetic.com/wont_leak.php
I have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, but was kind of disappointed that I can't change the resistance on it, considering what it cost. But other than that, it's worked great.
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Old 04-21-10, 11:07 AM
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The KK will also change resistance slightly as the fluid heats up but the effect is quite small. I conducted a test earlier this year and did 2x20 minute intervals at constant speed (32.5kmh). During the first 20 min interval the power dropped approx 10W during the course of the interval. The power was constant during the second interval. I didn't do constant power intervals but I wouldn't expect much of a speed change, certainly not enough to change gears.
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Old 04-21-10, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RustyD View Post
I have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, but was kind of disappointed that I can't change the resistance on it, considering what it cost.
You change the resistance by changing gears.
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Old 04-21-10, 11:14 AM
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I have the jet fluid pro and it's awesome. Quiet and consistent over 2 hours endurance and 1 hour mashing. Throw in some good training videos, I suggest the CTS power climbing buttkicker videos, and you're good to go. GL
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Old 04-21-10, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by RustyD View Post
I have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, but was kind of disappointed that I can't change the resistance on it, considering what it cost. But other than that, it's worked great.

You can go from no resistance to the resistance of a pretty steep hill climb. What more do you want????
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Old 04-21-10, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
You change the resistance by changing gears.
that doesn't seem to make much difference in my experience. The resistance increases initially after the gear change, but once the rear wheel gets to a constant speed again, it feels like the same resistance as it was.
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Old 04-21-10, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jrobe View Post
You can go from no resistance to the resistance of a pretty steep hill climb. What more do you want????
How do you get a steep hill climb?
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Old 04-21-10, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by RustyD View Post
that doesn't seem to make much difference in my experience. The resistance increases initially after the gear change, but once the rear wheel gets to a constant speed again, it feels like the same resistance as it was.
It sounds like you have either a problem with your trainer or you need to tighten the roller more. The power should increase with the cube of the speed so a 10% increase in speed should take roughly 30% more power. If it doesn't there is something wrong with your setup.
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Old 04-21-10, 12:04 PM
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Blackburn trainers are crap. I had one, sent it back for warranty and they sent me a brand new piece of crap that has a warmup/vibration period. I love Easton's customer service, but will never buy another product from them again. Junk!
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Old 04-21-10, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
It sounds like you have either a problem with your trainer or you need to tighten the roller more. The power should increase with the cube of the speed so a 10% increase in speed should take roughly 30% more power. If it doesn't there is something wrong with your setup.
I don't think so. The instructions clearly said that tightening the roller will NOT increase resistance. The wheel does not lose contact with the roller. Changing to higher gears may increase the resistance a little, but it's nothing like a real climb that I would experience on the road. I stay in the highest gear all the time on the trainer.
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Old 04-21-10, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by saratoga View Post
I'm looking to buy a new one pretty soon to replace the Blackburn trainer I've had for several years.

My issue is: When doing ST or 2X20's (or 2X30's), the heat generated changes the viscosity of the fluid and the resistance decreases. I'll post a screenshot of the graph later tonight when I'm at home... pwr remains constant while cadence and speed increase until I have to upshift- two to three times per interval. The sudden change in cadence/tq screws with me. It isn't an issue doing on/off or other short duration types of intervals. The other night I just got irritated and stopped about half way through the first one.

I was interested in the cycleops jet fluid pro in case anyone has any comments either way.
I used to have a Blackburn fluid trainer; it would do exactly as you describe. I replaced it with a Kinetic fluid trainer which does not display this behavior. The better quality fluid trainers use a silicon based fluid inside which does not display a large change in viscosity. Whatever Blackburn uses inside their trainer really does change viscosity drastically with temperature.
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Old 04-21-10, 12:30 PM
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In my experience CycleOps increase resistance slightly when they warm up.
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Old 04-21-10, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RustyD View Post
I don't think so. The instructions clearly said that tightening the roller will NOT increase resistance. The wheel does not lose contact with the roller. Changing to higher gears may increase the resistance a little, but it's nothing like a real climb that I would experience on the road. I stay in the highest gear all the time on the trainer.
Your a machine, or your machine is defective.

The resistance of the Kinetic in big gears is more than enough to knock the wind out of my sails!
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Old 04-21-10, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RustyD View Post
that doesn't seem to make much difference in my experience. The resistance increases initially after the gear change, but once the rear wheel gets to a constant speed again, it feels like the same resistance as it was.
Originally Posted by RustyD View Post
How do you get a steep hill climb?
At 30 mph , a KK gives over 700 watts resistance. So if you're turning a 53/12 at about 85 rpms, you're over 700 watts.

Neither Armstrong or Contador can do a sustained climb at the Wattage.

Unless your's is broken or not set up correctly, its got plenty enough resistence to give you a workout the equivalent of climbing a steep hill.

And by the way, you're right that tightening the resistance on the wheel won't raise the pedaling resistance, if you've got it tight enough in the first place to not slip. However, if it's too loose, it will cause the resistance to be lower, as the tire slips on the roller.
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Old 04-21-10, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by RustyD View Post
I don't think so. The instructions clearly said that tightening the roller will NOT increase resistance. The wheel does not lose contact with the roller. Changing to higher gears may increase the resistance a little, but it's nothing like a real climb that I would experience on the road. I stay in the highest gear all the time on the trainer.
The instructions are correct but the roller needs to be tight enough to prevent any slippage. As I said earlier, your trainer is either defective or you are experiencing wheel slippage.

Perhaps you just need to pedal faster. The KK is intended to simulate pedaling on a flat or slight (1%) uphill. If you want to simulate a hill climb a 53-12 gear and a cadence of 70RPM should take around 400W.

Edit: I type too slow...
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Old 04-21-10, 12:57 PM
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Old 04-21-10, 01:14 PM
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Maybe mine's defective then.
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Old 04-21-10, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RustyD View Post
Maybe mine's defective then.
Check the set screw holding the drum to the drive shaft.

Hold the flywheel whilst turning your back wheel, see if there's any slip.
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Old 04-21-10, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mmmdonuts View Post
In my experience CycleOps increase resistance slightly when they warm up.
+1

About 5 minutes into a trainer session the resistance starts to climb by about 80 watts for the given speed.
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Old 04-21-10, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by saratoga View Post
I'm looking to buy a new one pretty soon to replace the Blackburn trainer I've had for several years.

My issue is: When doing ST or 2X20's (or 2X30's), the heat generated changes the viscosity of the fluid and the resistance decreases. I'll post a screenshot of the graph later tonight when I'm at home... pwr remains constant while cadence and speed increase until I have to upshift- two to three times per interval. The sudden change in cadence/tq screws with me. It isn't an issue doing on/off or other short duration types of intervals. The other night I just got irritated and stopped about half way through the first one.

I was interested in the cycleops jet fluid pro in case anyone has any comments either way.
I have a Jet fluid Pro and it's the gold standard. At our shop we sell Cycleops exclusively. As a top 50 in the nation shop there's a reason why we limit who our vendors are. Saris rocks.
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Old 04-21-10, 02:02 PM
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Kinda off topic but if I were to buy a used trainer off CL how should I inspect it w/o a bike?
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Old 04-21-10, 03:43 PM
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Here's the phenomenea of which I speak; this was supposed to be 45 min at ST. Turned out to be about 10.

Thanks to everyone that chimed in with personal experience.
Attached Images
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trainer..jpg (66.5 KB, 21 views)

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Old 04-21-10, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by grovestreet View Post
Kinda off topic but if I were to buy a used trainer off CL how should I inspect it w/o a bike?
DO IT.

i gotten my trainer off CL, long story short i took the dude's word for it.

came back home, put my trek on the trainer and it squeal like some metallic racing brake pad in the winter.

the good thing is that i contacted cyclops they took care of it even tho i am not the original buyer without receipt,

that's top notch customer service and i wouldn't think twice about getting more product from them in the future.

as far as testing it, try mashing it, mine was making high pitch squeal when i am hauling butt in high cadence, see if it gets hot or any sign of leakage,etc
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