jfw1956

I have the opportunity to pick up a new set of wheels for my Moots Vamoots to replace the Shimano Dura Ace WH-7800 wheelset that was damaged beyond repair when I was hit by a car while riding on March 1. I had initially planned to get the new Dura Ace WH-7850-C24 CL carbon-composite wheelset, but have recently read a couple of great reviews of the HED Ardennes wheels. I am 6' 187 lbs. and plan to use the wheels for weekend rides of 50-75 miles and shorter rides during the week. I don't race but do ride hard. If you were in my situation, which would you select?

Motobetird

I would go with the DA. What can I say? I am Shimanos *****....

carpediemracing 

Keep in mind the HED wheels are wide. If you go to HED, unless you have just one set of wheels, you're going to have to adjust your brakes if you go to a "normal" rim.

I moved to all HED wheels because of this - Bastogne, Jet 6-9, Stinger 6. I had to move the long barrel adjuster all the way to get the brakes to even think about engaging whatever other wheel I had (DV46, FiR box clinchers). Now the brakes are just set "wide".

cdr

Mitro

I have the Shimano Dura-ace C24 CL and I like them a lot. So much so that I bought a set of the RS80s (same rims with Ultegra level hubs) for my training bike. They're both great, I'm a big fan of the rims. They've both been reliable for a couple thousand miles.

carpediemracing 

I should point out that I like my Bastognes. Corners fine, descends fine, brakes well, straight, seems strong. They will be my training wheels and the rear will be my trainer wheel (for inside).

I love my Stinger 6s. Fast, light, winds up quickly, stiff enough for me.

I have yet to put the Jet 6-9 (front-rear) on the bike. They look pretty though.

cdr

robncircus

A teammate of mine races on HEDs and loves them. They are not aero carbon ones - they are the normal low profile ones. Not sure which model though. Few people I've talked to can't say enough about the wider rim profile. Don't know if it's truth, marketing, or excitement (or any compbination) but they all seem happy.

eye1

I built up a set of the Bastogne rims with Dura Ace Hubs - the same rim only slightly more grams. The wider profile provides the benefit of a smoother ride. There is more rubber on the road and it corners better with less rolling of the sidewall. There is more volum of air in the tube due to the wider profile - I run 90 psi.

There is definately an improvement in the ride going from a 19mm rim width to the 23mm rim. They will live up to the reviews you have read. These will really smooth out the ride. I have the Conti GP4000's and believe this is a great combination of performance and ride quality especially for long rides 40 to 100 miles. Just my 2 cents good luck.

canthidefromme

Da

scirocco

I just got the DA carbon laminate clinchers. Had been riding Fulcrum Racing 3's. The DA's are a bit lighter and maybe roll a fraction easier, but I'm probably kidding myself. I'm only 150 lbs and I find the DA's less stiff than the Fulcrums, so a heavier rider might find them a little too soft.

No experience of the HED Ardennes, sorry, so can't compare.

jfw1956

Thanks very much for your replies. I think that I will be going with the DA for my Moots and (since the DA's will be at no cost) probably getting an Ardennes Stallion build for my Seven tourer.

patentcad

I've been riding the C24's now for a while, they are the best non-aero wheel set I've ever ridden. Light, great ride, great looking wheels. Reasonably rigid laterally, vertically compliant. They took the edge off the stiff ride on my Scott Addict frame. Love these wheels. Kimconyc has them, he also really likes them. I paid about $800 plus $70 shipping duty from PBK, most domestic vendors seem to charge $1300, so buy them from England. Wiggle advertises them for less, but they never have them in stock. I call that Unicorn Ranch marketing.

learnmedia

No experience with HED Ardennes, but I love my C24 clinchers. Light, stiff enough for my 157lbs., very smooth. Great hubs. High-tensioned bladed spokes. Rated very highly by almost all that own a set. Chainreaction has the pair for $654.00 in stock right now (I paid $724.00 for them 6 months ago.). That's half of what they are generally available for in the states. Free shipping too.

calamarichris

So now that a few months have passed, is there anyone out there who has experience with both the C24's and the Hed Ardennes yet?
Been very, very happy with my C24's, but the dollar isn't as strong against the pound as it was last year, and I'm considering the Ardennes FR.

kimconyc

I have both the 7850 C24's and HED Ardennes, rear with a PowerTap SL+ hub.

The HED's had a slightly wider rim profile than the DA rims. Also, I can noticeably tell that the HED's are stiffer laterally than the DA rims, even with only 24 spokes in the rear and the hubs seem to roll better than the DA wheels.

Having said that, overall, I think that the DA wheels are superior. The construction of the DA wheels are top-notch--never needed truing, where the factory laced HED's have a spoke popping sound (a la Mavic Ksyriums) when putting down the power.

Also, the design of the straight-pull spoked hubs for the DA wheels seem better thought out.

Lastly, I think that the DA wheels look better and they are much cheaper than the HED Ardennes, even without the HEDs having a PowerTap on them.

YMMV.

canam73

So what would you say to set of HED belgium rims laced 18/24 with cx-ray spokes to DA hubs (or other hub of your choice)? Parts would be around $800 (plus building if you can't do it yourself) and they would weigh 1540g give or take depending where you used alloy nipples. A little heavier, but I would think it would be worth the compromise for the perfect ride. And you could get around that with lighter hubs if you wanted.

kimconyc

The standard HED Ardennes FR are lighter than the DA7850 C24's (my DA7850C24's came out to 1440g). 1540 is 100g+/- heavier than the DA wheels and at $800, more expensive.

Tires and tire pressure influence ride more than the rims IMO.

I only bought the HED's for the PowerTap, no other reason. For an overall wheelset, IMO, I think that the C24's are hard to beat.

At 1540g, I'd rather go aero like Zipp 404 Firecrests, Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLRs, or Reynolds 46's.

canam73

It just seemed liked you appreciated some aspects of the wider rim. Maybe it's because I don't have much around me to climb, but I've never been able to notice a 100gm difference. But if it mattered you could use DT or Alchemy hubs and get the weight back.

I completely agree that tires and pressure influence the ride more than the rims themselves. That's most of my reason for liking the wide rims like a HED. I can run my favorite 23mm tires at lower pressures than I can with a standard rim. The added grip is a nice bonus, too.

As for the Zipp/Mavic/Reynolds suggestion, I personally don't consider those for everyday wheels. But that's just me.

calamarichris

THANKS Kimco! Very much appreciate your input! Probably just get another pair of C24s for my next build then. They really are sweet wheels.
Might even get another pair for my vintage Masi, because 22mm is the perfect width for C-Record Delta brakes. (Don't know what Campy was thinking, since all the rims available in the US back then were 19mm.)

canam73

Never noticed the width before. Is there a corresponding increase of internal width or is that an artifact of the hybrid design?

Nachoman

I like the C-24s also. But I thought they typically weigh in at 1390g.

kimconyc

The actual weight is more like 1420g and the spoke plugs add 15-20g.

calamarichris

Yet more ambivalence...

Kimco: on your Ardennes, is the cassette mount point on the freehub body pretty solid stuff, or is it that squishy aluminium? I had a pair of wheels like that before and it's definitely a consideration for a heavier guy like me who likes to climb with the skinnies.


Even though they're not in stock anywhere, I'm leaning back toward the Heds because they're made in the US.

And my mistake CanAm, the C24's are actually only 20.8mm wide, not 22. Not sure where I heard 22, but Shimano's site says 20.8.

canam73

Thanks for info.

One more reason I like handbuilts is that I can use White Industries hubs. Built in the US and they use titanium freehubs which won't score like the aluminum. The 7700 and 7800 DAs did too, although I'm not sure on the 7900.

valleycyclist

The FH-7900 has a titanium freehub body, so you don't have to worry about wear like aluminum freehub bodies with it. Both Dura-Ace and White Industries hubs are very nice.

calamarichris

How about the Heds? Can anyone tell me if they have that soft aluminum freehub/cassette interface?