Coopers_Dad

I was doing great 31-33KPH average speed but 46K in we hit a steep long hill that I obviously found more challenging than the rest of the group. By the time I got to the top they were 1/2 mile in front of me so I pushed and caught up with the rear again. I guess I ran out of gas because not 5K later I couldn't keep the pace and they pulled away. The ride was an out and back so when I saw them coming back I turned around and joined in again. I was able to keep up with them the rest of the way home until my front tire went flat.

It was my first time out with this group of guys they covered 4.2K more than me by making it to the return point. They suggested I keep a much closer eye on my nutrition during the ride I was so intent on keeping up with them I didn't eat or drink anything until they left me. I'm going to ride with them again next Saturday to see how things go.

Other than overall fitness how do I keep up with them when their regular pace is 80-85% of my max?

Quel

Ride with them more. Eventually you'll keep up.

I can't imagine nutrition on the bike is holding you back if you only got dropped around 50k, but that's an individual thing. On 50 mile group rides, I see plenty of people chowing down on bars and gels, but a bottle of two of sports drink is enough for me there. That's kind of my limit on distance before I need something else though.

DScott

The short answer is "ride lots." Keep at it, you'll get stronger.

I also think you waited too long to eat and drink. More than an hour at a fast pace is gonna burn your on-board fuel up. Rule of thumb is one water bottle and ~250 calories of nutrition each hour, hopefully kinda spread out.

Practice pacelining, taking only short pulls, or skip pulls entirely. That'll save energy and help you hang on that much longer.

ptle

Next time you'll know the hill is coming. Trying to save some energy by staying in the back and not taking any pull for a few minutes before the climb. Once you get to the hill try to stay on the tale of the guy in front of you. Do whatever you have so you can stay in their draft, even if it means using all your energy to get to the top. The further they get away, the harder it will be to hang back on. And on the downhill, if you aren't able to draft, you probably won't be able to catch up.

Also you could try eating a bar or some gel 15 minutes before the hill. That may gave you some energy, but I don't think you had an issue with nutrition unless you didn't each much before the ride. At 25 miles, I usually start feeling really good because I'm fully warmed up.

I did this group ride for the first time a month ago. There's a nice long climb that goes up about 300-400ft in elevation spread out over about two miles (guessing). I didn't get dropped, but I wasn't in front at the end of the climb. The next week, I knew the climb was coming so I could prepare myself. I was able to keep up at the front that time.

kleinboogie

Of course you did. Keep it up, someday you'll be in the group watching the new guy get dropped. It happens. GL

rbart4506

Where in Niagara??

What hill did you get dropped on??

Eating and drinking is important, when on the bike...

agarose2000

Big hint with group rides with competitive riders - you often will not see how strong the riders in the group are until they hit the major climbs. A lot of folks who experience this think that they're just bad at climbing, but it's really not that they're particularly bad at climbing, but moreso that the stronger guys haven't even started pushing until the climbs start.

The draft effect at 22mph+ is also significant. This past weekend, I tried to ride an 18 mile stretch (of an 80 mile ride) at a steady 160HR on my own on the Pac Coast Highway (very popular with cyclists). Was doing 24-25 mph on the flats, and I passed a lot of small groups, and ended up with 6 drafting cyclists who latched on and rode with me for a good 10-15 minutes, so they could definitely keep up on the flats. However, as we went up 2 slightly long rolling hills, I put a big gap on the 6 guys despite holding a steady 160HR and adding no extra effort to lose them as our speed dropped from 24mph to 14 mph and the draft effect disappeared.

jrobe

This was probably a typical group ride where they ride at 200 watts on the flats and 400-500 watts on the hills. For some reason this is how groups tend to ride even though no one would likely ride like that on their own.

You need to improve your power output for shorter time intervals. You should start doing some hill repeats and/or shorter interval sessions - ie. 2-3 min intense intervals.

roadiejorge 

+1
Also learn to pace yourself so you don't suffer from greyhound syndrome and get dropped shortly thereafter.

I'd recommend taking short pulls rather than skipping them, especially if you ride with them regularly because most groups don't appreciate wheelsuckers.

gregf83 

Losing weight will help with the hills.

ptle

I don't ever understand that, even on this C paced ride I do I probably use 3-4x more power on the hills.

gregf83 

Unless it's a short hill the guys up front probably aren't changing their power by much but everyone else has to start working harder when there's no draft. If it's a short hill it's natural (and fastest) to put out close to your maximum power for that length of hill. So if it's a 5 min hill the experienced riders will know how hard they can go for 5 min and ride close to that limit. Hills are always going to sort the riders based on power/weight.

agarose2000

I think a lot of this "group hill sprint" phenomena has to do with the mentality of road racing cyclists, in which you really are best served by attacking on the hills where the draft is minimized.

When I ride with strong triguys who have no interest in sprinting or burst attacking because they're training for ironman (112mile) bike legs, they'll often pace consistently with their PMs and slow down a lot on the hills to not spike their power. These guys are still very strong, but since they know that their race isn't going to be won by cycling strategy, they go for the steady burn. (Albeit while averaging 24mph on the flats even at their aerobic pace!)

gregf83 

That's fine for tri guys but it's boring in a group ride with competitive people. Even on my own it's a bit of a mental struggle to ride up a hill at steady power and I generally don't unless the hill happens to be in the middle of a 20 min interval.

knobster

Thing about Triathlons is you have to conserve on the ride because you have a run following it. Burn yourself up on the ride and the run is going to suck. Ask me how I know..

Coopers_Dad

Hey Guys thanks so much for all your posts what a great bunch of posts.

My plan for my next ride on Saturday.
Eat something 90 minutes before the ride.
Warm up a bit more so I'm ready to ride.
Opt out of leading. ( They offered this but I declined as I felt as though I needed to do my part.)
Set my bike computer to remind me to eat something every 20k.

I'd plan to do this but on Thursday I start my weekly hill repeat workout. I think I really need to dedicate a full workout to increasing the time I can stay up near my max HR and to spend some time practicing my climbing.

5 weeks in to riding and I love it.

Thanks again for all the posts!!

Coopers_Dad

It was Mountain St in Grimsby. I was worried that we were going to go up Woolverton which is a challenge to walk up so I was happy when we turned onto Mountain.

chado445510

On my first long, long group ride, I basically bonked 10 miles from the finished, and was dropped 5 miles out. I had one Clif Bar and maybe 30 oz. of Gatorade and Nuun, but that wasn't enough. On the next group ride, the next Sunday, we covered 73 miles and I was not dropped. I brought two or three sports bars and ate when I wasn't hungry and drank when I wasn't thirsty and I made out fine. It was not an easier pace, because we have about 5400' of climbing, and the average about a bit more than 18mph. So for me, it wasn't fitness, it was food.

GPB

Yeah, welcome to the club. I got dumped yesterday...my legs were like wet noodles...and I still averaged 18.8 mph over 37 miles (no meaningful hills). Oh well...it sucks. I hope it's not a Trek Madone "thing".

petalpower

I wouldn't eat that close to riding.

I aim for 3 hours before riding to make sure the food has been completely digested.

seanthebear

let me guess....you read it in a magazine?

colombo357

Some would call that a very clever breakaway.

BoodBianchi

Damn, that seems kinda weird to me, can you elaborate a little? I would feel like i would bonk but then again im a 21 year old male who is starving every 3 hours after a huge meal. So I usually eat 30 minutes prior and never suffer from cramps but am always starving after the ride. Metabolism?

botto 

90 minutes is fine. this is a group ride, not a race (and if it was a race, 2 hours before would be fine).

Menel

I don't run/bike within 2 hours of a meal. 2-3hours is a good buffer. Depending on the endurance length... ~1hr don't take in any additional calories. ~2hr+ I will gel/half-clif-bar as we start and then repeat every 45-60min or so.

Stick a gel pack or two inside the front edge of your lycra bike shorts, just above your knee, can pull it out and gulp it down easy while on the move and within the pace group.