How much faster can a nicer bike make you?
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thats what I found, going from a cheapie £400 alu bike to a £3200 carbon bike my speed improved by .5mph, but it is lighter on the hills, changes gear smoothly and it looks and feels great, but at the end of the day its not the bike that makes you faster its how good your engine is.
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Very interesting reads.
I've been biking for a year now after suffering a couple of nasty femur breaks. I recently sold my dirtbike (which caused said breaks), and have around 3k to play with, and was looking at upgrading from a Trek 1.5 to a Madone 5 series. Now I'm not so sure that's very smart to do w/my money.
Any input? I plan to stick w/cycling and do a century this summer. Should I spend my money at all? Maybe just look at a 4-series?
Thanks ahead.
P.S. love the sight.
I've been biking for a year now after suffering a couple of nasty femur breaks. I recently sold my dirtbike (which caused said breaks), and have around 3k to play with, and was looking at upgrading from a Trek 1.5 to a Madone 5 series. Now I'm not so sure that's very smart to do w/my money.
Any input? I plan to stick w/cycling and do a century this summer. Should I spend my money at all? Maybe just look at a 4-series?
Thanks ahead.
P.S. love the sight.
Personally, I love having a nice carbon bike that cost alot and even though it didnt make much difference to my speed you feel great everytime you ride it, plus I already have all the training aids
#53
Banned.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Post-partisan Paradise
Posts: 4,938
Bikes: GF Wahoo '05, Trek T1000 '04, Lemond Buenos Aires '07
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
2 Posts
And a new nice bike is new. A bike new and nice would be, um, well, nice and new.
If we could make one point perfectly clear, it's about the engine. The Engine. THE ENGINE.
Do you know what we're trying to say?
I'd love to stay and chat but the ToC is on right now.
If we could make one point perfectly clear, it's about the engine. The Engine. THE ENGINE.
Do you know what we're trying to say?
I'd love to stay and chat but the ToC is on right now.
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I think a nicer bike with better ride quality can make you faster. After going from a Cannondale R1000 caad3 to a carbon frame, I can ride faster and longer due to not getting beat to death. Other than that, meh.
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
Dare I say it? Ride more.
#56
Portland Fred
It will probably make you a couple mph faster.
When you first get it, you will both feel a need to justify your purchase and you will not want to be humiliated by people on cheap crappy bikes. So you will work much harder and become a better cyclist.
When you first get it, you will both feel a need to justify your purchase and you will not want to be humiliated by people on cheap crappy bikes. So you will work much harder and become a better cyclist.
#57
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 42
Bikes: Prorace Calisto
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I know this is an old thread, but I thought the topic seemed appropriate...
I'm a mechanical engineer by trade and "a bit" geeky. Like a lot of other people I wanted to know how much faster "x" would make me on my bike so I wrote a little program and began gathering as much real-life data as I could... both from my own testing and other people's testing.
Once I'd written the program it seemed a waste to keep it to myself so I registered a little web domain and put it on the web... I hope nobody is upset if I post a link here.... it's totally free to use; just fill in your data hit "calculate" and it'll tell you how much faster "x" would make you on your bike over the same ride:
CYCLE SPEED MARGINAL GAINS CALCULATOR
Because the gains are presented relative to one of your actual rides then the results should be a very good indicator of what you'd expect to see -as long as you put in the same effort and the wind conditions are the same!
Any feedback appreciated!
I'm a mechanical engineer by trade and "a bit" geeky. Like a lot of other people I wanted to know how much faster "x" would make me on my bike so I wrote a little program and began gathering as much real-life data as I could... both from my own testing and other people's testing.
Once I'd written the program it seemed a waste to keep it to myself so I registered a little web domain and put it on the web... I hope nobody is upset if I post a link here.... it's totally free to use; just fill in your data hit "calculate" and it'll tell you how much faster "x" would make you on your bike over the same ride:
CYCLE SPEED MARGINAL GAINS CALCULATOR
Because the gains are presented relative to one of your actual rides then the results should be a very good indicator of what you'd expect to see -as long as you put in the same effort and the wind conditions are the same!
Any feedback appreciated!
#58
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,302
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times
in
371 Posts
sorry to tell you it's already been done.
https://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
https://analyticcycling.com/
https://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
https://analyticcycling.com/
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 7,827
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 692 Times
in
468 Posts
Wait.. aero overshoes takes off 33 seconds on a 17.5 mile ride?!? Surely that can't be right, right?
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 353
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This is a bit of a drastic example but I have 35 lbs steel commuter bike with rack, bag, etc that I rode all the time until earlier this year when I got a 17 lbs bike (both bikes listed in signature). I have a 16 mile loop that I often do and it has a few hills, or at least what we call hills in FL.
With the heavier bike, my best was a 17.3 mph average (did that twice). On my first ride with the new bike, I averaged 18.1 mph. On the second ride with the new bike I averaged 18.7 mph.
With the heavier bike, my best was a 17.3 mph average (did that twice). On my first ride with the new bike, I averaged 18.1 mph. On the second ride with the new bike I averaged 18.7 mph.
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,481
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It can make a difference but most of the benefits are not seen until you're traveling at a high speed (23-25mph+). This is due to two factors:
1. The stiffness of aluminum is enough that a low wattage will not flex it very much (pedaling at 200 watts on aluminum vs carbon will result in almost no loss of wattage to flex). Only at higher wattage is the flex enough to cause a noticeable loss
2. Aerodynamic drag increases exponentially. For example, going 20mph takes 239 watts while 15mph requires 110 watts (for the default rider stats seen here: https://kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm). That's 129 extra watts to increase 5 mph. But increasing another 5mph to 25mph, requires 446 watts (again for that "default" rider). That's 207 extra watts! So a more aero frame will make a greater advantage at higher speeds.
1. The stiffness of aluminum is enough that a low wattage will not flex it very much (pedaling at 200 watts on aluminum vs carbon will result in almost no loss of wattage to flex). Only at higher wattage is the flex enough to cause a noticeable loss
2. Aerodynamic drag increases exponentially. For example, going 20mph takes 239 watts while 15mph requires 110 watts (for the default rider stats seen here: https://kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm). That's 129 extra watts to increase 5 mph. But increasing another 5mph to 25mph, requires 446 watts (again for that "default" rider). That's 207 extra watts! So a more aero frame will make a greater advantage at higher speeds.
#63
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 42
Bikes: Prorace Calisto
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I agree! Seems mad right?! But a study by C.R.Kyle entitled "Athletic Clothing" for "Scientific American" found that it reduced drag by 200g at 30mph... I convert this to a Cd.A figure and the calculator recalculates the reduction in drag at your speed (the page defaults to 17.5 miles in 1 hour but you can change that) to determine how much faster you'd complete the course if you put the same effort in; 33 seconds in the default case!
#64
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 42
Bikes: Prorace Calisto
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
It can make a difference but most of the benefits are not seen until you're traveling at a high speed (23-25mph+).
2. Aerodynamic drag increases exponentially. For example, going 20mph takes 239 watts while 15mph requires 110 watts (for the default rider stats seen here: https://kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm). That's 129 extra watts to increase 5 mph. But increasing another 5mph to 25mph, requires 446 watts (again for that "default" rider). That's 207 extra watts! So a more aero frame will make a greater advantage at higher speeds.
2. Aerodynamic drag increases exponentially. For example, going 20mph takes 239 watts while 15mph requires 110 watts (for the default rider stats seen here: https://kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm). That's 129 extra watts to increase 5 mph. But increasing another 5mph to 25mph, requires 446 watts (again for that "default" rider). That's 207 extra watts! So a more aero frame will make a greater advantage at higher speeds.
Don't take my word for it.... the nice guys at Cervelo have written a nice page on the effect here:
https://www.cervelo.com/en/engineerin...st-riders.html
Last edited by Machin; 01-03-14 at 04:58 PM.
#65
Powered by Borscht
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 8,342
Bikes: Russian Vodka
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If a nicer bike makes you train harder or gets you more motivated to ride...the upgrade is worth it.
I dont know where you live or what kind of ride this is but 22 mph is FAST.
I dont know where you live or what kind of ride this is but 22 mph is FAST.
#66
Senior Member
That said if your current bike has anything wrong with it then fixing the problem could make a huge difference. I rode a fragged bottom bracket for half a season before getting around to replacing it (on my mountain bike) and now that I have a not-broken one the bike is like a rocket. Check your BB, hubs, etc to make sure everything is turning freely and just ride the snot out of your bike.
I had a 1998 Specialized and the hubs had lot of rolling resistance. With my new bike I easily gained 3 mph just because I had less drag.
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boone, North Carolina
Posts: 5,094
Bikes: 2009 Cannondale CAAD9-6 2014 Trek Domaine 5.9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
seriously?? digging up old threads and it's only January 3rd????
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: SE Minnesota
Posts: 12,275
Bikes: are better than yours.
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
If I paint my Ti bike red, will it be as fast as my carbon bike?
__________________
Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.
Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 7,827
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 692 Times
in
468 Posts
But how do you know it was just the wheels? You should have just changed the wheels on the specialized and then see if you were 3mph faster. Somehow I kinda doubt it.
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 794
Bikes: '11 Merlin Extralight, '98 Dean Castanza, '89 Schwinn Prologue
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Kysrium wheels will probably make you slower on the flats and slightly faster on the climbs. Although somewhat light, they are some of the least aero wheels ever.
New components? You can probably save 1-2 lbs which will make you 0.5%-1% faster on steep climbs and 0% difference on flats.
New frameset? Save 0.5-1lb and make you < 0.5% faster on steep hills.
New components? You can probably save 1-2 lbs which will make you 0.5%-1% faster on steep climbs and 0% difference on flats.
New frameset? Save 0.5-1lb and make you < 0.5% faster on steep hills.
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,621
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Richfield, WI
Posts: 720
Bikes: Trek Domane SL7 Disc, Cannondale F29
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Liked 324 Times
in
185 Posts
Is it possible that a new bike might make a person *faster* if it leaves you feeling less fatigued? "Endurance" bikes, like the Trek Domane and Specialized Roubaix, are relatively new to the cycling world and the technology they use to provide the improved comfort wasn't even possible until the use of carbon frames. Obviously, an 'endurance' bike won't make you jump from 17 mph to 20 mph in an instant, but perhaps it'll help you average a higher speed for longer?
Regardless, having the OP dump his current bike for an endurance bike prol'ly won't get him from B+ to A.
Regardless, having the OP dump his current bike for an endurance bike prol'ly won't get him from B+ to A.
#74
Senior Member
In any case, on both my new and testing co-workers bikes my speed improved by about 3 mph. When they rode my bike, they lost about 3 mph. Both other testers agreed the bike was "slow".
#75
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 7,827
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 692 Times
in
468 Posts
It wasn't the tires (Pro Race 3) since those were also used on other comparison bikes. The bike was slow coasting, so that eliminates the bottom-bracket. The brakes weren't dragging. So that leaves the wheels (probably the hubs). I didn't have a spare set of wheels to try. There were no funny noises or anything. I suspect the hubs were just shot, since I had never re-greased them and they were 10 years old (<5k miles though).
In any case, on both my new and testing co-workers bikes my speed improved by about 3 mph. When they rode my bike, they lost about 3 mph. Both other testers agreed the bike was "slow".
In any case, on both my new and testing co-workers bikes my speed improved by about 3 mph. When they rode my bike, they lost about 3 mph. Both other testers agreed the bike was "slow".
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird