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Is the trainer supposed to be so hard?

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Is the trainer supposed to be so hard?

Old 05-24-10, 04:09 PM
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Yaniel
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Is the trainer supposed to be so hard?

My buddy lent me a trainer so I could try out my fit and I decided to go for an easy ride on it today after a hard weekend. It's a CycloeOps FluidPlus and appears to be pretty old. 39x25 at 90 rpm has my legs hurting after 10 minutes. I decided to go through the gears to see what kind of resistance it has an at 39x12 I couldn't turn the pedals faster than 55 rpm. Is it supposed to have this much resistance? I tightened the roller until the tire wouldn't slip on a jump.
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Old 05-24-10, 04:31 PM
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Why are you running in 39x12 for starters?

As far as a fluid trainer is concerned, I have no idea, but my mag trainer doesn't have that much.
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Old 05-24-10, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by adclark View Post
Why are you running in 39x12 for starters?

As far as a fluid trainer is concerned, I have no idea, but my mag trainer doesn't have that much.
i was just running down the cassette to see how the resistance would increase.
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Old 05-24-10, 05:24 PM
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I typically find riding on a trainer harder than riding outside. There are several reasons for this but mostly because you can't coast and there are no downhill sections. Even with a fan, I sweat more.
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Old 05-24-10, 05:30 PM
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Between work and family, I don't often have time to ride during the week so I acquired a cycle ops fluid trainer to be able to exercise at nights....do that running spinerval viedos. Anyhow, since day one I have thought the trainer is harder (more tiring) than riding outside; however it does not seem it ever was as bad as you describe. Are you sure it's set up properly?
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Old 05-24-10, 05:32 PM
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My trainer is a very hard work out compared to the open road. The lack of coasting can easily destroy tires if you are tired and not careful. I can do only an hour tops at what the computer says is 16 mph in 50x16 and I'm dying.
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Old 05-24-10, 06:48 PM
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Yes Even regular rollers are hard to move depending on the brand.
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Old 05-24-10, 07:19 PM
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Forget about your speed, and forget about the gear you're turning. They don't match up to the road. It takes substantially more watts of power to produce a given speed on a Fluid OPs (or other similar trainer) than on the road.

The key is to maintain the power output and candece that's appropriate for the workout you're doing. Ideally, you want to do this with a power meter.
Next best option is a heart rate monitor, and below that perceived exertion.

But you can pretty much foreget about speed because it does not correlate to the road and will be misleading.
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Old 05-24-10, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ultraman6970 View Post
Yes Even regular rollers are hard to move depending on the brand.
Actually it depends on the diameter of the drums. 4.5" rollers are gonig to be a lot easier than the road for a give speed. 3" probalby pretty close, and 2.25" a little tougher. https://www.kreitler.com/wattage.php
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Old 05-24-10, 07:36 PM
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I must be doing something wrong. I have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and I do not feel as much resistence as I would expect. I was told that I probably do not have the wheel adjusted correctly and the back wheel is losing traction.

What I want from my trainer is to simulate hill climbing so I can improve my performance on inclines. How I have adjusted the rear wheel is that when the metal roller/drum (whatever you call it) makes contact with the back tire, I turn the knob two turns. Maybe that is not enough. It does seem like the wheel is slipping.
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Old 05-24-10, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Forget about your speed, and forget about the gear you're turning. They don't match up to the road. It takes substantially more watts of power to produce a given speed on a Fluid OPs (or other similar trainer) than on the road.

The key is to maintain the power output and candece that's appropriate for the workout you're doing. Ideally, you want to do this with a power meter.
Next best option is a heart rate monitor, and below that perceived exertion.

But you can pretty much foreget about speed because it does not correlate to the road and will be misleading.
I figured the speed wouldn't match up but I was hoping 39x25 ar 90 rpm would feel like a warm up spin on flat road, instead it felt like 39x25 on a climb. No big deal, if I use the trainer it'll just be for interval work so that wont matter. I was just shocked at how much resistance it had.
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Old 05-24-10, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Yaniel View Post
I figured the speed wouldn't match up but I was hoping 39x25 ar 90 rpm would feel like a warm up spin on flat road, instead it felt like 39x25 on a climb. No big deal, if I use the trainer it'll just be for interval work so that wont matter. I was just shocked at how much resistance it had.
39x25 at 80 rpm is going to be about 100 watts. https://www.saris.com/comparison/trainers.pdf So that shouldn't feel like much of a climb, but its likely harder than 10mph on a flat road with no wind.
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Old 05-24-10, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbon Unit View Post
What I want from my trainer is to simulate hill climbing so I can improve my performance on inclines. How I have adjusted the rear wheel is that when the metal roller/drum (whatever you call it) makes contact with the back tire, I turn the knob two turns. Maybe that is not enough. It does seem like the wheel is slipping.
Test it by grabbing the wheel and rotating it. If it slips on the trainer tighten the knob. On a side note, here's a chart/equation for wattage on KK trainers: https://www.kurtkinetic.com/powercurve.php

BTW, is this the same Yaniel on h-t?
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Old 05-24-10, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbon Unit View Post
I must be doing something wrong. I have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and I do not feel as much resistence as I would expect. I was told that I probably do not have the wheel adjusted correctly and the back wheel is losing traction.

What I want from my trainer is to simulate hill climbing so I can improve my performance on inclines. How I have adjusted the rear wheel is that when the metal roller/drum (whatever you call it) makes contact with the back tire, I turn the knob two turns. Maybe that is not enough. It does seem like the wheel is slipping.
Given that a KK can give you 1400 watts of resistence, I would say yes. https://www.kurtkinetic.com/documents..._Curves419.pdf

Edit: PJ beat me to the punch
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Old 05-24-10, 07:55 PM
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Last fall I switched from an old Cyclepro fan/mag trainer to a Kirk Kinetic. I thought the thing was broken, it was so hard to ride. I usually just leave it in 42x21 or x19 and vary cadence when I ride it. And it still hurts.
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Old 05-24-10, 08:08 PM
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I went back outside recently after a winter on the trainer (same issues, I have time to ride when it is dark) and found that the resistance of the trainer seems much harder than out on the road. I have the heat issue - even with a fan and having the trainer in my basement I get so much warmer than riding outside where there is more airflow.

I had a cycleops fluid 2 before my KK and while I find that the KK is smoother, I don't recall the cycleops being crazy hard. Will an LBS let you try out for a comparison? For tire tention, you can usually hear it squeak upon increased effort if it is too loose. I also find that as everything warms up and the tire gets more grippy (technical term there) it won't squeak much if at all.
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Old 05-24-10, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by .PJ View Post
Test it by grabbing the wheel and rotating it. If it slips on the trainer tighten the knob. On a side note, here's a chart/equation for wattage on KK trainers: https://www.kurtkinetic.com/powercurve.php

BTW, is this the same Yaniel on h-t?
Thanks, I will give it a try.
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Old 05-24-10, 08:40 PM
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I have been riding on a trainer (cheapy Minoura mag trainer) before work this year because I can't get the time to ride during the week. It is definately more difficult than just open road riding around my area, no coasting or a nice breeze. The trainer actually feels like a long, decently steep hill if I set the tension adjustment to the higher levels and go to the outer chainring on the bike. I like to use my computer for purely cadence and time and just guess at my exertion while on the trainer as the speed and distance don't really match up to the road. The trainer is a more difficult workout unless I am really pushing myself out on the road, which I hate to admit doesn't happen as much as it should.
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Old 05-24-10, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Yaniel View Post
My buddy lent me a trainer so I could try out my fit and I decided to go for an easy ride on it today after a hard weekend. It's a CycloeOps FluidPlus and appears to be pretty old. 39x25 at 90 rpm has my legs hurting after 10 minutes. I decided to go through the gears to see what kind of resistance it has an at 39x12 I couldn't turn the pedals faster than 55 rpm. Is it supposed to have this much resistance? I tightened the roller until the tire wouldn't slip on a jump.
I have an entry-level Minoura Rim Drive unit and I have the same issue. I run it at 34/17 or something like that in order to get a resistance I can maintain for an hour or so. Just put together my Tacx last night - let's see how it performs.

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Old 05-25-10, 06:55 AM
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I have both the Cycle-Ops fluid and a set of rollers with a resistance unit. I *love* my rollers, probably the best workout for me since i can spin up the cadence high or grind away at a hard gear.

The fluid trainer, wow, it can whoop your ass sometimes. I dont know about that power curve though. I've noticed that the longer i ride on the fluid trainer at the same cadence the resistance will increase over time as the fluid becomes hotter. Eventually the unit becomes so hot I cannot touch it by the time i've finished my training. Both are great, I use the rollers for summer in the garage and the fluid for indoors during the super hot days / winter.
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Old 05-25-10, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mymilkexpired View Post
I have both the Cycle-Ops fluid and a set of rollers with a resistance unit. I *love* my rollers, probably the best workout for me since i can spin up the cadence high or grind away at a hard gear.

The fluid trainer, wow, it can whoop your ass sometimes. I dont know about that power curve though. I've noticed that the longer i ride on the fluid trainer at the same cadence the resistance will increase over time as the fluid becomes hotter. Eventually the unit becomes so hot I cannot touch it by the time i've finished my training. Both are great, I use the rollers for summer in the garage and the fluid for indoors during the super hot days / winter.
True.
In fact, if your are using a powermeter and want to keep an steady power output, usually after about 10-15' you might need to shift to an easier gear to stay on target, because of changes in the resistance as the unit heats up (happens to me all the time).

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Old 05-25-10, 08:20 AM
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FWIW, the reason trainers feel harder than riding on the road is inertia. The little flywheels you find on trainers don't have anywhere near the coast-down time you find on the road. When you reach the weak part of your pedal stroke, a trainer will slow your pedal speed more than a bike on the road will. So your pedal speed goes through all these accelerations and decelerations with every pedal stroke, and that's less efficient and less comfortable.

If you ride one of the big $12,000 SRM ergometers, you get a huge heavy flywheel, and they feel much more like riding on the road.


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Old 05-25-10, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
FWIW, the reason trainers feel harder than riding on the road is inertia. The little flywheels you find on trainers don't have anywhere near the coast-down time you find on the road. When you reach the weak part of your pedal stroke, a trainer will slow your pedal speed more than a bike on the road will. So your pedal speed goes through all these accelerations and decelerations with every pedal stroke, and that's less efficient and less comfortable.

If you ride one of the big $12,000 SRM ergometors, you get a huge heavy flywheel, and they feel much more like riding on the road.
Ah, that explains a lot.
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Old 05-25-10, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Yaniel View Post
Is it supposed to have this much resistance?
Not on mine (Kurt Kinetic). Low gears are easy-peasy and high gears are brutally hard.
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Old 05-25-10, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Phantoj View Post
Not on mine (Kurt Kinetic). Low gears are easy-peasy and high gears are brutally hard.
I like to hear this because when I buy my own I plan to get the KK.
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