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Just how loud does money talk...

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Just how loud does money talk...

Old 09-09-04, 09:51 AM
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cycleprincess
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Just how loud does money talk...

Trek 5000 04 model, my size at my LBS. It's MSRP is $2,200. They have it at $1,999. If I walk in with a wad of cash, how low do you think they would go? What would be a reasonable amount to ask them to knock off for the mean green?
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Old 09-09-04, 09:53 AM
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haha, this is good. I dont know how much u want to push us bike sales men. Me being one for performance, we dont bargin other then the sales. But hey if it is a LBS then u might be able to bring it down. It looks like they have brought it down a bit. I guess it does not hurt to try but just be wiery that u might make an enemy if u ask to much ^_^
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Old 09-09-04, 09:54 AM
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You're already getting a pretty good deal. The profit margin on bikes is pretty small, and I'd be surprised if they could go much lower. You could ask, but in the end, a good relationship with the shop is probably worth a few extra dollars, even if all it does is get you bumped up in the repair line some Friday afternoon.
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Old 09-09-04, 09:57 AM
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Show him 1800 in fiftys and hundreds and start from there. Go at a slow time of day and talk to a senior salesman or owner if you can. Most dealers are contractually bound to a selling price, not that they ever stick to it (some do).
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Old 09-09-04, 10:04 AM
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I bought the 2005 model, for just over $2000. However, I wanted more than the bike so my negotiations were for add on's. You know you just have to have new shoes, socks, shorts, etc when you get a new bike. Anyway, I got 25% off all accessories for buying the bike at my local shop.
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Old 09-09-04, 10:06 AM
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Save used car attitudes for used car lots. Going in like you're money's better than anyone else's just because it's cash instead of a check probably won't get you very far. If you approach it more graciously than you do in your post, you might find some success. But remember, as VD pointed out, that you might find your repairs taking longer than someone that just bought a bike that was already marked down at the asking price.
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Old 09-09-04, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by cycleprincess
Trek 5000 04 model, my size at my LBS. It's MSRP is $2,200. They have it at $1,999. If I walk in with a wad of cash, how low do you think they would go? What would be a reasonable amount to ask them to knock off for the mean green?
i would do all big purchases with credit card or someother non-cash means. that way, i'll get extra protection if there is a problem and the transaction is documented. i doubt they will accept a lower price based on cash. like others have said, it's not a used car or a swap meet.
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Old 09-09-04, 10:13 AM
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Cash talks... the LBS marks the bikes up about 30-50% (ssssshhhh). I would have $1,900 cash in my pocket and work with $1,700 up front and talk to the LBS manager, not a sales person cause they will get the LBS manager involved anyways.
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Old 09-09-04, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Velo Dog
You're already getting a pretty good deal. The profit margin on bikes is pretty small, and I'd be surprised if they could go much lower. You could ask, but in the end, a good relationship with the shop is probably worth a few extra dollars, even if all it does is get you bumped up in the repair line some Friday afternoon.
This is very good advice. I have no idea where the person claiming 30 - 50% markup is getting their infromation, because this is not the case in my experience. Bike shops don't make much money off bikes, they stay in business through accessories and service.
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Old 09-09-04, 10:45 AM
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I just checked with the owner of my favorite local shop. I was by there to pick up this months velonews and cycle sport.

He indicated he wouldn't be interested in much less than 1950 but he does include adjustments such as stem swaps etc and garuntees a good fit. He also includes lifetime tuneups so ymmv.

Good luck but don't blow a good relationship with a good lbs over a few bux.

So use your immense charm and leave hubby behind. ;-)
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Old 09-09-04, 10:47 AM
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30% to 50% mark up on any retail item is not much. Most things are marked up over 100%. Hence why there are always sales on things and pretty good percents. If you discount something marked up 50% and then marked down 25% leads to only a 12.5% profit. For the bike listed here if it was marked up 50% then the shop is looking at 533 dollars for covering shop and employee cost and making some money. If you go with 30% mark up that is 307 dollars that is not much considering the commitment. But cash should get you a little discount over the credit card since there is a fee on the credit card for the LBS. Equipment deals seam to be the way to go, everyone likes stuff.
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Old 09-09-04, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Shadco
I just checked with the owner of my favorite local shop. I was by there to pick up this months velonews and cycle sport.

He indicated he wouldn't be interested in much less than 1950 but he does include adjustments such as stem swaps etc and garuntees a good fit. He also includes lifetime tuneups so ymmv.

Good luck but don't blow a good relationship with a good lbs over a few bux.

So use your immense charm and leave hubby behind. ;-)
Exactly! The amount of post-purchase tweaking that can be done to get the bike "just so" can be far more valuable than the few dollars saved by grinding the shop down on the price. Changing the stem, saddle, etc. can take a lot of dealer's time, so it's worth it to pay for that when you buy the bike.

You'll need quite a few accessories (water bottles & cages, pump, saddle bag, etc.) though, and the dealer has more room to adjust the price on these things.
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Old 09-09-04, 11:18 AM
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While shops do pay ~3% of a purchase to credit card companies, their service agreements with the credit card companies prohibit charging a higher price for the use of a credit card. I'm not saying that you won't get a cash discount, but i just wanted to throw that info out there in case they didn't want to give you one.
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Old 09-09-04, 11:31 AM
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i don't see % discounts on accessories adding up to offset getting the best deal on the bike. even $100 cheaper on a $2k bike - you'd be hard pressed to make that up with waterbottle cages.

and what's with this whole idea of shop guys being lax about service because you try to get as low a price as possible? you make it sound like the sadistic waiter who spits on your hamburger because you're not a big tipper or something.

if it's true that the margins are that small, then they'd do better to bend on the price and catch up with full-priced waterbottle cages.

i definitely don't subscribe to the "pay more than you have to for the bike and hope they get you back with good service down the road" philosophy - but that's just me. for me, good service is their responsibility at a minimum - it's retail - but they are _still responsible for getting you the best price they can manage.

i'm continually surprised at the number of posts on this board that are along the lines of "you really should pay more at the LBS just so they'll like you and treat you better".

the folks at my LBS know full well where i got my bike and why (gvhbikes.com) and they think it's great. i ride in by myself to get little $7 adjustments or with friends for them to test ride bikes that cost too much. they don't mind a bit and we all have a good old time helping my friends get educated. i imagine down the road we'll all go there for our little tune-ups, tubes and cassette replacements and such. i foresee no hard feelings and any bike store that gave me a less friendly attitude would't be worth dealing with for even that much.

sorry to be OT, but don't feel bad about wanting to haggle. and if they won't haggle then don't think you can't get a carbon frame w/ ultegra for $1800 someplace else.
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Old 09-09-04, 12:06 PM
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In CT that bike (Trek 5000) was $1995 all year long so a markdown TO $1995 isn't a great deal...at least around here.

As far as cash being king...I bought a new Lemond Zurich this year and was trying to make a deal with a small shop for a leftover 2003. They would not budge on price (after their markdown from $2,200 to $1,800 because it was a leftover). I asked for a credit in the store to make up the cost of tax and the owner said he couldn't do it. I didn't ask for a FREE bike, I asked him to basically give me $100 credit in his shop. Now, $100 credit is actually more like $45 out of his pocket to sell a leftover that has been sitting on the floor for more than 1.5 years (I saw this exact bike that long ago.) He wouldn't move at all. So, I asked about an '04 (which they didn't have in stock- in fact, they hadn't had one all year to that point- it was June- his price was $200 more than another local shop. I bought an '04 from the other shop because he was $200 cheaper right off the top AND they gave me instant 5% in store credit off the $2,200 (read: $110) ...PLUS, I get 5% in store credit for every dollar I spend there from now on.

I guess it just depends on the dealer...I haven't been back there yet but I bet that 2003 is still sitting there.

I saw be polite and don't ask for the world. I've bought many different things over the years (not all bike related) and the cash price is usually better. For nothing else you can usuallly negotiate the cost of tax.

PJ
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Old 09-09-04, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ImprezaDrvr
Save used car attitudes for used car lots. .
Good one.

I was at an LBS the other day and someone asked the owner of the shop he would buy a $349.00 dollar hybrid if a new BMX bike was thrown in the mix! Can you believe that? Buy a $350.00 hybrid and get a $90.00 BMX bike for free?

People really think these LBS's are just hauling in the bucks!

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Old 09-09-04, 12:12 PM
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Trek 5000 D here at Sheel's All Sport for $1799.99. Trek 5200 for $1999.99. Both are 56cm frames.

Hope that helps you to get a starting point.
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Old 09-09-04, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by collegeskier
30% to 50% mark up on any retail item is not much. Most things are marked up over 100%. Hence why there are always sales on things and pretty good percents. If you discount something marked up 50% and then marked down 25% leads to only a 12.5% profit. For the bike listed here if it was marked up 50% then the shop is looking at 533 dollars for covering shop and employee cost and making some money. If you go with 30% mark up that is 307 dollars that is not much considering the commitment. But cash should get you a little discount over the credit card since there is a fee on the credit card for the LBS. Equipment deals seam to be the way to go, everyone likes stuff.
Good one... I used to work in retail years ago and a can of beans back then was sold for $.69 cents, wholesale cost was $.34 cents and the profit was less than a penny!
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Old 09-09-04, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cycleprincess
Trek 5000 04 model, my size at my LBS. It's MSRP is $2,200. They have it at $1,999. If I walk in with a wad of cash, how low do you think they would go? What would be a reasonable amount to ask them to knock off for the mean green?
I'd expect 20% off this time of the year - that's pretty standard around here. I bought a leftover the following spring one year and got 40% off. Talked to the manager and her was in the right mood - told him I loved the bike but couldn't afford it - what could he do? Came back with a price at his cost plus his shipping cost.
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Old 09-09-04, 12:59 PM
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Everyone needs to remember that the market for bikes is very regional as well. A good price in one part of the country is a steal in another and a ripoff somewhere else.

boze, there is no 'if' to the truth of low margins for bicycles. It's a fact. What makes it more fun is that the manufacturers have different pricing for different dealers based on volume. So, if you have two shops that carry Trek but only one carries Trek as their primary brand, you're likely to find that the other shop cannot match the price of the major Trek dealer because they're paying more for the bikes to begin with. I don't know if other industries work that way or not, but it often ends up putting shops between the proverbial rock and hard place.
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Old 09-09-04, 01:12 PM
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LBS make next to nothing on bikes. The money is in parts and apparel. They might send you on your way, because they know you can't get the bike cheaper elsewhere.

If your tight right now, buy used, bikes lose value like crazy and used bikes are real bargains.
 
Old 09-09-04, 01:20 PM
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depends on the shop
cash does talk at some shops...it won't at others. the trek store in SD did budge to cover for the CC fee as well as include a few extra goodies...saddle bag, frame pump, tools, patch kit, and a bunch of tubes. i think alot of it has to do with how serious a customer you are. if you seem like the kind of person who just looks for the best deals around town, then you're less likely to probably make a deal with them. i think i spent a good 2hrs every day that i went into the trek store in SD for 3 days to decide on a bike...i think i came across as someone who'd probably frequent that shop after i bought the bike...and i have except once...i needed some gel pack and i was too far from the shop lol.

good luck

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Old 09-09-04, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DocRay
LBS make next to nothing on bikes. The money is in parts and apparel. They might send you on your way, because they know you can't get the bike cheaper elsewhere.

If your tight right now, buy used, bikes lose value like crazy and used bikes are real bargains.
What's "next to nothing"? If my LBS knocked off 40%, that's not chicken feed.

But I agree, short of cutting a great deal for yourself, buy used. When I sold my LeMond a year later, I sold it for a few hundred less than what I paid, but my selling price was about 50% of MRSP ...
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Old 09-09-04, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Markedoc
What's "next to nothing"? If my LBS knocked off 40%, that's not chicken feed.

But I agree, short of cutting a great deal for yourself, buy used. When I sold my LeMond a year later, I sold it for a few hundred less than what I paid, but my selling price was about 50% of MRSP ...
If they knock off 40%, I can almost guarantee that they're losing money on it.
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Old 09-09-04, 01:30 PM
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no offense to y'all who work in or own a shop, but the rest of us don't care about your profit.
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