merits and demerits of various component groups
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merits and demerits of various component groups
By virtue of a mad bike buying binge over this past winter, I find myself for the first time ever with access to a wide array of "brake lever shifter era" component groups. in some two dozen bikes I have just about everything; Dura Ace 8 and 9 speed, 600, ultegra, 105, even Sora. On the Campagnolo side I have Record, Chorus, Centaur, Veloce, MIrage and even I think an Avanti.
My question I guess stems from the fact that testing out a Mirage setup, I find it extraordinarily stiff and clumsy to shift, particularly the big (Up? - I could never tell what was UP and what was DOWN.) lever on the RH side. I find you really have to push HARD to click it. I can barely do it. I imagine that for a weaker person (say a child or my girlfriend, for whom this bike -- an otherwise lovely Tommasini in Columbus SL just her size) would not be able to manage it at all. or would be fighting it.
ditto on another bike with Veloce. it is a workout just to shift.
by comparison, I find even the now archaic Dura Ace 8-speed that I've been trying out a dream. It shifts so effortlessly and smoothly.
while I know that Mirage is low on the Campy hierarchy, I would still have expected smoother functioning from this regal manufacturer.
ANd I know it is not reasonable to compare the top of the line Shimano to the bottom of the heap Campy, but I even far prefer my 105 stuff to the MIrage or Veloce.
do you think this is just a quesiton of familiarity (I've been far longer on Shimano and have only recently used Campagnolo). Might I have to lubricate the shifters? sticky cables and sheaths?
My question I guess stems from the fact that testing out a Mirage setup, I find it extraordinarily stiff and clumsy to shift, particularly the big (Up? - I could never tell what was UP and what was DOWN.) lever on the RH side. I find you really have to push HARD to click it. I can barely do it. I imagine that for a weaker person (say a child or my girlfriend, for whom this bike -- an otherwise lovely Tommasini in Columbus SL just her size) would not be able to manage it at all. or would be fighting it.
ditto on another bike with Veloce. it is a workout just to shift.
by comparison, I find even the now archaic Dura Ace 8-speed that I've been trying out a dream. It shifts so effortlessly and smoothly.
while I know that Mirage is low on the Campy hierarchy, I would still have expected smoother functioning from this regal manufacturer.
ANd I know it is not reasonable to compare the top of the line Shimano to the bottom of the heap Campy, but I even far prefer my 105 stuff to the MIrage or Veloce.
do you think this is just a quesiton of familiarity (I've been far longer on Shimano and have only recently used Campagnolo). Might I have to lubricate the shifters? sticky cables and sheaths?
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How do like the avanti? Would it be acceptable on a used bianchi for a starter bike?
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Campy shifters feel "chunkier" than Shimano. Veloce and Mirage are comparable to Sora and Tiagra (I forget which is which). 105 is more comparable to Centaur.
As to lever vs. thumb button, the lever is like the brake/large lever on a Shimano, while the thumb button is like the smaller/inner Shimano lever. What's so hard to remember about that?
People accustomed to Shimano typically expect the front to shift with one click, but Campy has intermediate clicks for chain-angle trim. I find it more forgiving in a triple setup than Shimano for that reason, although it makes for slower shifting.
I understand newer Shimano shifters have improved, but my 2004 Ultegra 9-speed right shifter breaks its shift cable about every 12 months--and other riders in my club report similar experiences. The only warning you get is sloppy shifting that you can't adjust away by fiddling with cable tension. It invariably breaks *inside* the shifter and is a pain to extract, sometimes defeating even skilled bike mechanics and therefore requiring a complete lever replacement. In contrast, the cable routing on my Campy shifter is not as severe, *and* if the cable starts to fray inside the lever, you can actually feel it from the slot on the underside of the lever body that your fingers naturally wrap against while riding, so you get ample warning.
As to lever vs. thumb button, the lever is like the brake/large lever on a Shimano, while the thumb button is like the smaller/inner Shimano lever. What's so hard to remember about that?
People accustomed to Shimano typically expect the front to shift with one click, but Campy has intermediate clicks for chain-angle trim. I find it more forgiving in a triple setup than Shimano for that reason, although it makes for slower shifting.
I understand newer Shimano shifters have improved, but my 2004 Ultegra 9-speed right shifter breaks its shift cable about every 12 months--and other riders in my club report similar experiences. The only warning you get is sloppy shifting that you can't adjust away by fiddling with cable tension. It invariably breaks *inside* the shifter and is a pain to extract, sometimes defeating even skilled bike mechanics and therefore requiring a complete lever replacement. In contrast, the cable routing on my Campy shifter is not as severe, *and* if the cable starts to fray inside the lever, you can actually feel it from the slot on the underside of the lever body that your fingers naturally wrap against while riding, so you get ample warning.
Last edited by dorkypants; 06-26-10 at 10:13 PM. Reason: additional clarification
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I use record 9 speed shifters which as you can imagine are alot better (for me) than the 105's that came stock on my bike. my main reason for wanting to switch was for the small thumb lever, i find it much easier. with my 105's I was tapping the brake when I tried to shift and losing some momentum. when I bought the records (used) the old cable ends were jammed in the shifters ratching gears but I was able to drill them out fairly easy. my only "complaint" with the records is the sideways downshifter lever seems to have alittle too much travel, and after some longer rides I kinda "pull the muscle" in my middle finger. I call it campy finger. but maybe I just need to rotate the entire lever outward more. other than that am completely sold on them, shifting is sharp and immediate. I like the multiple position of the front shifters ratchet. at extreame ends of my range I can one click my front derailieur one way or the other to com[pensate for the chain angle.
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2010 Kestrel RT900SL, 800k carbon, chorus/record, speedplay, zonda
2000 litespeed Unicoi Ti, XTR,XT, Campy crank, time atac, carbon forks
2010 Kestrel RT900SL, 800k carbon, chorus/record, speedplay, zonda
2000 litespeed Unicoi Ti, XTR,XT, Campy crank, time atac, carbon forks
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I am perfectly familiar with which buttons and levers to push to do what, I just never know whether to call going Up into the smaller rear cogs "Shifting Up" or "Shifting Down". In a car you shift DOWN into first to get into your easier-to-go-uphill gear, but the same move on the bike requires physically moving UP from the small sprockets to the larger ones.
Never mind. I'll just call it Easier and Harder like a little kid.
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i think you have a bunch of old clunky bikes with misadjusted and neglected drivetrains, the ones that shift better are probably just pure luck of the draw.
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clunkers?
for examples (albeit pre-cleaning) have a look at:
www.picasaweb.google.ca/lugworks
and one of my personal rides is a Merckx Titanium with Campagnolo Chorus (which I find shifts very well.)
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Replace the cables with new Campy low friction cables and you'll have a different opinion about ease of shifting. It makes a big difference.