from my limited experience, i'm going to have to say it is indeed very close to steel. at the least, it's closer to steel than to aluminum. not as responsive as aluminum but feels more solid. never rode carbon so cannot compare.

What Ti frame? What CF frame? My Roubaix and Tarmac are both CF with the same wheelset and the ride is completely different. My Lynskey is pretty stiff but is the most comfortable (reduced vibration) for long rides.

More comfortable than the Roubaix?

ok. so let's take me for example. I own a Lightspeed Ultimate 59cm with easton rims and 110psi vred's. I ride on upper midwest roads, so pretty choppy with some smooth surfaces mixed in. I also have a 58cm Scott CR-1, with Ksyrium ES's. Also 110psi on vred's. I find the rides to be similar. The scott also has carbon handlebars and seatpost with carbon rails on the saddle. The Lightspeed doesn't have these niceties.
The ride is smooth but not as plush as the Scott. This is a symptom of the last bit of carbon on my sitbones and hands.

I also have a custom Steelman. All great bikes.
Ti is light and fantastic.

Fixed.

I only have an average steel (Jamis Ventura, Reynold 520) and a pretty good Ti (Merlin Extralight.) Similar geometry but the Ti is more aggressive.

For me it is a difference night and day. Definitely more responsive, much lighter and livelier. And it handles the road's imperfection perfectly. But I have no experience comparing to aluminum or carbon.

In fact, I have not put any miles on the steel bike since I got the Ti.

I like both my carbon and Ti but I'm riding the Ti 90% of the time now and all the weekend longer rides are on it. It is so nice to not worry about it. Lean it against anything.

I have the R230 so the curved seat stays dampen the rear of the bike. The forks are Reynolds Ouzos and bars are EC90. Its a great combination for speed, handling and comfort for Century or doubles.

The Roubaix is a great bike right out of the box but the R230 is a little more comfortable and more fun to ride.

Biased . . . profoundly et al.

Is what Ti builders would like you to believe but is sadly not the case. But keep drinking the Kool-Aid if you like.

What Kool-Aid?

No, that's my rather extensive personal experience after owning half a dozen high end race bikes since 1990, including two Ti bikes (Merlin, Ibis Ti Road) and two current CF models (Addict, S2). And about 130,000 road and race miles on those bicycles. As opposed to your views, which appear to be pulled out of...

well, you know.

I don't drink Kool Aid by the way. I make it and the Freds here drink it by the keg.

Pcad would you trade your current Scott for a high end Ti frame like a Moots or Lynskey Helix?

I prefer the feel of the current state of the art CF frames. I love the Scott and Cervelo. Wouldn't go back to Ti, but it's nice to jump on the Ibis on occasion and feel the difference. I ride the Ibis much of the winter when the roads are messy.

Just completed a build on a Moots Vamoots frame last week. Previous (now my rain bike) is a Giant TCR carbon, built with nice stuff. When I built the Giant, I was coming from an aluminum Specialized. The Giant brought a smile to my face with the ride and ability to absorb most of the road noise. I only have 100 miles on the Moots, but it has also brought a smile to my face. It is hard to describe. When I start a ride on the moots, it feels nice, but every few miles it just feels even nicer (to an extent, obviously). I find myself moving along at a good clip, smile on my face, feeling energetic. It is a very nice ride for me.
Will be taking it on TourBC starting Sunday, 400 miles, 7 days, 26,000 feet of climbing. Will have a better perspective after that. Right now I am in love.

i saw a moots the other day. i wonder wher he got it from.

Coasting aren't you in the UK? You guys have those Enigma frames which I think have a nice classic look.

i never seen one. let's have a look.

i saw some van nicholson bikes getting a lot more profile recently. they look good too.

http://www.enigmabikes.com/road.html

All they do is steel and Ti.

http://www.enigmabikes.com/bikeimages/esprit_main.jpg

This is their top of the line Extensor steel frame weighing in a 1450g.

http://www.enigmabikes.com/bikeimages/xcr_main.jpg

their steel is similar to Ti weight. looks good too.

I was trying to think of a response here. I rode an alu bike - so harsh it was unbelievable. Borrowed a friend's Giant OCR C3 or whatever it was and it was pretty nice, absorbed the vibrations that the alu bike would not.

But the Moots. I think he described it right on the button. Makes you feel energetic as the ride goes on. Perfect description.

Oh and one thing. Ti retains heat like nobody's business. Burned the inside of my thigh after the bike sat in the sun for a bit. Owie. :(

Must have Ti ... :thumb:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/..._teamti_10.htm
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...mti_10_600.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_NX4zcMNX4V...met-butter.jpg

like this