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Hammer Nutrition: Do these guys own stock in a paper mill?

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Hammer Nutrition: Do these guys own stock in a paper mill?

Old 07-30-10, 09:02 AM
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Hammer Nutrition: Do these guys own stock in a paper mill?

You order one sampler pack from their website, and all of a sudden your mailbox explodes with flyers and "athlete education" materials.

Seriously, I buy a couple hundred bucks worth of Hammer Gel, Recoverite, and Perpetuem every year. I like it, it's good stuff, it works for me. But let's knock off the junk mail.
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Old 07-30-10, 09:04 AM
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I don't work there. Maybe write them.
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Old 07-30-10, 09:20 AM
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I don't mind the mail. I find a lot of really useful information in there!
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Old 07-30-10, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by theREEDeffect View Post
I don't mind the mail. I find a lot of really useful information in there!
Ditto...for newbs like me, their stuff has been pretty educational.
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Old 07-30-10, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by theREEDeffect View Post
I don't mind the mail. I find a lot of really useful information in there!
Same here. It would be OK if they could send it via email though. Paper IS more effective though; I tend to read it more carefully when I have something to hold in my hands.
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Old 07-30-10, 10:31 AM
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Alright, just call me another Berkeley enviro-wacko. Last time I moved, I pulled my name from the big direct-mailer lists, so any unsolicited mail is obvious.

AT&T and Comcast are the worst offenders, by number of pieces; but Hammer wins on weight.

Yeah, they have some straight-ahead articles, but it's still just a big advertisement. I found a good book, and a few cycling-specific websites more useful and information-dense than any flyer or catalog.
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Old 07-30-10, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by theREEDeffect View Post
I don't mind the mail. I find a lot of really useful information in there!
+1

It actually excites me to see mail from them. They usually give me coupons too, so I've gotten a lot of free bottles.
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Old 07-31-10, 06:30 AM
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call them and ask that they stop. they will. clearly the marketing technique is getting your attention. i wonder how many customers this post will generate for them. if its one they win. later.
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Old 07-31-10, 07:01 AM
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love their stuff. buy it all the time. could live without the junk mail.
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Old 07-31-10, 07:28 AM
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Hammer NEEDS to flood you with junk mail. And if you think it's not worth it, consider this:

I buy bulk maltodextrin, in a 50lbs batch for $55 SHIPPED from Honeyville (or Honeygrain?) online. I store it in a $5 paint bucket from Home Depot and a $3 smaller paint bucket (for convenience) for a grand total of $63 for 50 lbs of sports nutrition. Ok, I also have to buy a few generic orange flavoring things from the supermarket that are $2.50 each, which probably flavor enough malto for 3 months+.

I can convincingly argue that compared to buying Hammer Perpetuem, it is way more convenient to go the bulk malto route, since I just place one order, which is good for an entire year if I'm riding 4-6 hours EVERY weekend. It lasts the typical rider 2years+ (!!) to consume that 50lbs batch. Maltodextrin is the key component that provides the calories at a good sustainable metabolic rate - it has been extensively researched, and before commercial companies started selling their expensive fancy drinks, pro endurance athletes (esp cyclists) used it. (Now they get paid to use the commercial blends - for advertising reasons.)

Perpetuem is over 90% maltodextrin. The gels you consume are 98+% maltodextrin. The active ingredient in all of Hammer's products are maltodextrin. You are basically paying 15-20x what I pay to get the same exact active ingredient. All the other added things that they market heavily , like protein, glucose-fructose additions, electrolytes are trivial components - there's a 99.9% chance that your performance absolutely will not differ one bit without those additives.

You just add 1 cup of malto to 1 standard bike bottle, and you've got a 300-400 cal/bottle true sports drink. (Add flavoring if you want - malto has almost no flavor despite being a sugar.) No heating, no recipes, no hassle. Doesn't get any easier than that.

I'll tell you forumites this over, and over, and over again, and yet 99% of you Hammer/Infinit/etc. users will still religiously stick to your routine of paying $50 for 5lbs of sports drink, and do this every 1-2 months, or faster if you ride more. Because you say it's more convenient, works better, etc. When the reality is that the REAL reason you do this is because nobody markets bulk maltodextrin, and you get deluged with paper and online advertising from these sports drink companies.

Advertising works. Even if you think they're killing the trees, think about what you buy the next time you place another order of maltodextrin-er - Hammer Perpetuem.
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Old 07-31-10, 08:58 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by agarose2000 View Post
Hammer NEEDS to flood you with junk mail. And if you think it's not worth it, consider this:

I buy bulk maltodextrin, in a 50lbs batch for $55 SHIPPED from Honeyville (or Honeygrain?) online. I store it in a $5 paint bucket from Home Depot and a $3 smaller paint bucket (for convenience) for a grand total of $63 for 50 lbs of sports nutrition. Ok, I also have to buy a few generic orange flavoring things from the supermarket that are $2.50 each, which probably flavor enough malto for 3 months+.

I can convincingly argue that compared to buying Hammer Perpetuem, it is way more convenient to go the bulk malto route, since I just place one order, which is good for an entire year if I'm riding 4-6 hours EVERY weekend. It lasts the typical rider 2years+ (!!) to consume that 50lbs batch. Maltodextrin is the key component that provides the calories at a good sustainable metabolic rate - it has been extensively researched, and before commercial companies started selling their expensive fancy drinks, pro endurance athletes (esp cyclists) used it. (Now they get paid to use the commercial blends - for advertising reasons.)

Perpetuem is over 90% maltodextrin. The gels you consume are 98+% maltodextrin. The active ingredient in all of Hammer's products are maltodextrin. You are basically paying 15-20x what I pay to get the same exact active ingredient. All the other added things that they market heavily , like protein, glucose-fructose additions, electrolytes are trivial components - there's a 99.9% chance that your performance absolutely will not differ one bit without those additives.

You just add 1 cup of malto to 1 standard bike bottle, and you've got a 300-400 cal/bottle true sports drink. (Add flavoring if you want - malto has almost no flavor despite being a sugar.) No heating, no recipes, no hassle. Doesn't get any easier than that.

I'll tell you forumites this over, and over, and over again, and yet 99% of you Hammer/Infinit/etc. users will still religiously stick to your routine of paying $50 for 5lbs of sports drink, and do this every 1-2 months, or faster if you ride more. Because you say it's more convenient, works better, etc. When the reality is that the REAL reason you do this is because nobody markets bulk maltodextrin, and you get deluged with paper and online advertising from these sports drink companies.

Advertising works. Even if you think they're killing the trees, think about what you buy the next time you place another order of maltodextrin-er - Hammer Perpetuem.

Maybe you can explain why you and the others who are constantly making this argument always seem to pick the wrong product to make their comparison with?

I mean, Heed vs straight maltodextrin seems like a fair comparison. Perpetuem vs malto. doesn't make sense. If someone is taking Perpetuem or Sustained Energy they have made a choice not to use Heed. Your "somewhat close to the same thing" argument is not relevant.
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Old 07-31-10, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by aham23 View Post
call them and ask that they stop. they will. clearly the marketing technique is getting your attention. i wonder how many customers this post will generate for them. if its one they win. later.

What? I like Hammer products, I use them, I recommend other people give them a try. I said so in my OP.

I just don't need a ream of junk mail every couple months. Better to generate some new customers from an online forum, no?



Originally Posted by agarose2000 View Post
I buy bulk maltodextrin, in a 50lbs batch for $55 SHIPPED from Honeyville (or Honeygrain?) online. I store it in a $5 paint bucket from Home Depot and a $3 smaller paint bucket (for convenience) for a grand total of $63 for 50 lbs of sports nutrition. Ok, I also have to buy a few generic orange flavoring things from the supermarket that are $2.50 each, which probably flavor enough malto for 3 months+.

This is something I've been considering, but not gotten around to trying. I've gone totally DIY for fast-and-light backpacking food, so it’s just a matter of applying that ethic to cycling.
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Old 07-31-10, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffS View Post
Maybe you can explain why you and the others who are constantly making this argument always seem to pick the wrong product to make their comparison with?

I mean, Heed vs straight maltodextrin seems like a fair comparison. Perpetuem vs malto. doesn't make sense. If someone is taking Perpetuem or Sustained Energy they have made a choice not to use Heed. Your "somewhat close to the same thing" argument is not relevant.
I think you are misinformed. HEED is meant to be used more as an electrolyte drink that has some calories in it, not as a primary calories fuel supplement. You won't notice on rides < 2hrs, but once you hit 4+ hrs, if you're only fueling with drinks you want a denser calories supplement like bulk malto or perpetuem (hence the name).


HEED is marketed and used more as an electrolyte drink rather than a calorie drink. Some people actually add HEED to bulk malto to give it flavoring. You can fuel with HEED, but it's not meant to provide as dense a calorie load as perpetuem, but the calories in BOTH products are based off maltodextrin.

The comparison between bulk malto vs perpetuem is the closest for hammer products. In fact, pure bulk malto has NO electrolytes (sodium, potassium), so on those 4-6 hr rides, a few salt tabs are helpful. HEED vs malto is less of a fair comparison because HEED is more of an electrolyte drink, which is why I didn't directly mention it. But still, I'll bet nearly all the calories of HEED still come from malto.
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Old 07-31-10, 11:50 AM
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OK, so here's the ingredients of Perpetuem:

Maltodextrin, soy isolates, Energy Smart® lecithin (soy), Dreamsicle Flavor

Apparently it also includes l-carnosine, but I don't see a lot of evidence that small amounts provide a short-term benefit.

From what I can tell, they also claim that Perpetuem "buffers lactic acid to prevent muscle fatigue." Did these guys not get the memo that lactic acid is actually a fuel, and does not contribute to fatigue or soreness?

Not seeing a big benefit here, other than convenience over mixing your own maltodextrin drink. Or do I need to be drowned in quasi-scientific publications by Hammer in order to discover the benefits of their products?
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Old 07-31-10, 11:58 AM
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True confessions time:

I don't own a cow; I buy my milk from the store.

I don't make my own chain lube.

I don't mix my own energy drinks.


The *real* reason I ignore your posts about buying in bulk is because I'm lazy and/or have better things to do with my time. You choose. But it's *not* because I haven't seen your posts about buying in bulk.
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Old 07-31-10, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BengeBoy View Post
True confessions time:

I don't own a cow; I buy my milk from the store.

I don't make my own chain lube.

I don't mix my own energy drinks.


The *real* reason I ignore your posts about buying in bulk is because I'm lazy and/or have better things to do with my time. You choose. But it's *not* because I haven't seen your posts about buying in bulk.

And please explain to me how mixing a scoop of malto saves time comparing to mixing a scoop of Perpetuem.

I'm all about time-savings and I'll pay good money if there's a significant time benefit (including wrenching on my bike) but for someone to argue that Perpetuem saves so much more time than malto is a bunch of bull.

There is NO recipe for malto. The fanciest I get with it is adding some flavoring powder, and most of the time I don't even do that. It's literally one cup of malto into a bottle of water and you're good to go. The only extra work is buying a paint bucket from Home Depot to put it in, and you could order that online with overnight shipping and STILL come out way ahead of Hammer products over the course of a year.

I will, however, admit freely that I still purchase gel packs when I do running races. The size and packaging is well worth the convenience. But on a bike, when I've got water bottles on the frame, I forgo the solids and gels completely and just go malto.
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Old 07-31-10, 12:37 PM
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hey agarose,

does the malto you buy dissolve readily in water? The stuff I get locally clumps something awful.

Also, what do you use to flavor, kool-aid packs?

Finally, do you use any fructose crystals or NaCl in your malto mix?
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Old 07-31-10, 12:44 PM
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Those things are a godsend when you're a toilet reader.
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Old 07-31-10, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by milnerpt View Post
hey agarose,

does the malto you buy dissolve readily in water? The stuff I get locally clumps something awful.

Also, what do you use to flavor, kool-aid packs?

Finally, do you use any fructose crystals or NaCl in your malto mix?
Mine dissolves nearly completely. The few remaining chunks disappear after 10-15 minutes.

I use a generic "Orange Drink" that I get at the supermarket for flavoring. It costs $2.50 and makes a ridiculous quantity of drink.

I tried NaCl in it, but didn't like the salty taste. I do bring salt tabs for electrolytes on long rides - 1 per hour.
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Old 07-31-10, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Randy! View Post
What? I like Hammer products, I use them, I recommend other people give them a try. I said so in my OP.

I just don't need a ream of junk mail every couple months. Better to generate some new customers from an online forum, no?






This is something I've been considering, but not gotten around to trying. I've gone totally DIY for fast-and-light backpacking food, so it’s just a matter of applying that ethic to cycling.


the main point, which you missed, is you should call them and ask them to stop. they will if you just ask. posting a complaint on BF about it will get you know where.

except a hijacked thread about how you can make your own stuff. that is all. later.
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