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Don't Ride! You'll get Skin Cancer!

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Don't Ride! You'll get Skin Cancer!

Old 08-10-10, 11:26 AM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Man this thread got ugly in a hurry. Anyway, I'm on the traditional side of this debate. Sun exposure didn't wipe out the human race thousands of years before sunscreen was invented. The number one protective factor against MANY cancers is vitamin D and sun exposure is the best way to get vitamin D.

I will however qualify that getting a sunburn is NOT good for you. Sun exposure short of a sunburn is GOOD for you. Sun exposure past the point of sunburn is BAD for you. I don't use sunscreen because what I have read questions the safety or usefulness of sunscreens however I DON'T go riding during midday summer sun either.

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Old 08-10-10, 12:09 PM
  #152  
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Looks like being unprotected in the sun worked out well here:





I don't often wear sun screen for shorter rides... but if I'm at altitude, riding in the middle of the day, or for more than 4 hours..... it's pretty foolish not to.
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Old 08-10-10, 12:36 PM
  #153  
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I'm not terribly inclined to wade through 6+ pages of this dreck.... but I felt the need to point out that your acquaintances are giant vaginas.
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Old 08-10-10, 12:42 PM
  #154  
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Here is my $0.02: How much sun exposure causes a measurable increase, or decrease, in cancer risk is not well understood or known. https://adc.bmj.com/content/91/2/131 . Of course extreme exposure to UVA and UVB light is going to be bad just as no exposure, and the Vitamin D deficiency that follows, is bad. Between the extremes things become much more fuzzy and unknown. Intense but intermittent exposure may be very bad whereas moderate, but long term, exposure may actually decrease the chances of cancer. As is true with most things, the “ALWAYS” put on sun screen camp is probably not any more correct, or only slightly more so, than the “NEVER” put on sun screen camp.

The “always” camp seem to suggest that you should always slap onto your largest organ to be absorbed into your body, in varying mixes and quantities, p-Aminobenzoic acid, Octocrylene, Avobenzone, Phenylbenzimidazole sulfonic acid, and other similar substances, every time you step into the sun. Why? Because there is a .1% to .3% chance that within the next five to ten years you will develop a type of cancer that has a 99% five year survival rate. This seems as reactionary and misdirected as the "always ride you bike on the sidewalk" parent is because they think it is safer.

I think a more moderated approach is better advice. You should (as suggested by the AMA and other organizations) get direct sunlight exposure, without sun block or sun screen, on a regular basis in small amounts such as 10 minutes several times a week. If you have built up the melanin in your skin (have a tan) and are going out for short periods on a regular basis you are probably o’kay and there is no firm evidence to suggest your risk of cancer increases by such moderate and irregular exposure to the sun or decreases by wearing sun screen for such exposure. If you have little melanin naturally, or because you just came out of your winter basement trainer hibernation, and are going out into the direct sun for a very long period of time, then cover-up, which will always be better than sun screen. Or put on sun screen if you think covering up makes you to hot.

If there are areas of your skin that seem to suffer more due to sun exposure, or that you can’t easily cover up, then use sun screen or sun block in moderation. Try, to the extent you can without a chemistry degree, to get chemical protections that don’t themselves cause other medical problems, cancer, or the build up of free radicals (whatever that means). If you are going to be out in the sun for very long periods of time then cover-up or use sunscreen even if you have built up your melanin and don’t burn easily.

Most things in moderation won’t appreciably change the risk factors in your life. Most things when taken to the extreme become harmful at some point - even drinking to much water can kill you.
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Old 08-10-10, 12:43 PM
  #155  
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All I have to say is...

Neutrogena with helioplex is in my pre-ride routine
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Old 08-10-10, 12:59 PM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by Lamabb View Post
Alright... so my friends are not making this stuff up. The problem with sunscreen for me is I sweat alot, I sweat it off, and I hate the smell. Also, apparently I am told by one of the riders that unless you re-apply the sunscreen thoroughly every half hour, you might as well not be using any.

I guess I'm also on a search for cheap sunglasses. I never understood what separated normal sunglasses from "cycling sunglasses" other than the weight.
He's full of crap. While sunscreen is, surprisingly, controversial. You don't have to reapply it every half hour. I put sunscreen on before a ride, and that is all. On a long ride I'll get minor burns (enough to change color, not enough to hurt). If I skip the sun screen I'll be in horrible pain.

Now, if I skip the sun screen on a regular basis I develop a nice deep tan and don't have discomfort after a few burns.

It could be that my sunscreen isn't doing much to prevent melanoma (I have no evidence on that), but it is preventing sun burns and keeping my skin tone a bit whiter throughout the year.

That said. My grandfather was a life guard in his youth. He ended up with melanoma. They removed it a couple of times. He died from heart disease in his 60's.



As far as getting enough vitamin D. Don't wear sunscreen every second you're outside. Short periods out, everyday, without sunscreen are probably beneficial and you don't need much exposure time to get your vitamin D.


Also, it seems to me that when I wear sunscreen it's easier to overheat. Does anyone else have this experience, or am I just making myself think that? Obviously controlled experiments are very difficult...
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Old 08-10-10, 01:00 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by wjclint View Post
Here is my $0.02: How much sun exposure causes a measurable increase, or decrease, in cancer risk is not well understood or known. https://adc.bmj.com/content/91/2/131 . Of course extreme exposure to UVA and UVB light is going to be bad just as no exposure, and the Vitamin D deficiency that follows, is bad. Between the extremes things become much more fuzzy and unknown. Intense but intermittent exposure may be very bad whereas moderate, but long term, exposure may actually decrease the chances of cancer. As is true with most things, the “ALWAYS” put on sun screen camp is probably not any more correct, or only slightly more so, than the “NEVER” put on sun screen camp.

The “always” camp seem to suggest that you should always slap onto your largest organ to be absorbed into your body, in varying mixes and quantities, p-Aminobenzoic acid, Octocrylene, Avobenzone, Phenylbenzimidazole sulfonic acid, and other similar substances, every time you step into the sun. Why? Because there is a .1% to .3% chance that within the next five to ten years you will develop a type of cancer that has a 99% five year survival rate. This seems as reactionary and misdirected as the "always ride you bike on the sidewalk" parent is because they think it is safer.

I think a more moderated approach is better advice. You should (as suggested by the AMA and other organizations) get direct sunlight exposure, without sun block or sun screen, on a regular basis in small amounts such as 10 minutes several times a week. If you have built up the melanin in your skin (have a tan) and are going out for short periods on a regular basis you are probably o’kay and there is no firm evidence to suggest your risk of cancer increases by such moderate and irregular exposure to the sun or decreases by wearing sun screen for such exposure. If you have little melanin naturally, or because you just came out of your winter basement trainer hibernation, and are going out into the direct sun for a very long period of time, then cover-up, which will always be better than sun screen. Or put on sun screen if you think covering up makes you to hot.

If there are areas of your skin that seem to suffer more due to sun exposure, or that you can’t easily cover up, then use sun screen or sun block in moderation. Try, to the extent you can without a chemistry degree, to get chemical protections that don’t themselves cause other medical problems, cancer, or the build up of free radicals (whatever that means). If you are going to be out in the sun for very long periods of time then cover-up or use sunscreen even if you have built up your melanin and don’t burn easily.

Most things in moderation won’t appreciably change the risk factors in your life. Most things when taken to the extreme become harmful at some point - even drinking to much water can kill you.
Exactly, and for most road riding people fall under that category of "very long time" or above normal exposure.
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Old 08-10-10, 01:28 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Lamabb View Post
The problem with sunscreen for me is I sweat alot, I sweat it off, and I hate the smell. Also, apparently I am told by one of the riders that unless you re-apply the sunscreen thoroughly every half hour, you might as well not be using any.
Wear a long-sleeved merino (wool) top. It's better than many fabrics at UV blocking, wicks sweat away so well that I rarely notice I've been sweating, and while it doesn't smell lock sun block, it'll never smell like body odor, either.
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Old 08-10-10, 01:50 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by crhilton View Post
Also, it seems to me that when I wear sunscreen it's easier to overheat. Does anyone else have this experience, or am I just making myself think that? Obviously controlled experiments are very difficult...
Strangely yes, particularly the nice water-proof types... i was guessing it effects the sweat evapouration rates, though it doesn't help that one is predisposed to overheat under the condtions sunscreen is worn.
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Old 08-10-10, 03:04 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by Lamabb View Post
Alright... so my friends are not making this stuff up. The problem with sunscreen for me is I sweat alot, I sweat it off, and I hate the smell. Also, apparently I am told by one of the riders that unless you re-apply the sunscreen thoroughly every half hour, you might as well not be using any.

I guess I'm also on a search for cheap sunglasses. I never understood what separated normal sunglasses from "cycling sunglasses" other than the weight.
As a scuba diver before I became a cyclist, I am a big fan of Coppertone Sport spray-on sunblock. I have dove with it and it's lasted pretty well through significant immersion. The non-Sport kind failed me on a five hour ride over the weekend, so I don't recommend that!

I also strongly recommended UV-blocking sunglasses if you don't have UV-blocking contacts (many brands are these days) and probably even if you do. A friend who was cyclist, hiker and sailor died a couple years ago from melanoma that developed on his retina and the doctors believe his spending so much time outdoors and on water contributed. It could not be removed and spread to his brain. He died one month after his 35th birthday/
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Old 08-10-10, 03:10 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by rkelley23
All I have to say is...

Neutrogena with helioplex is in my pre-ride routine
+1
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Old 08-10-10, 03:22 PM
  #162  
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Is this thread real? Am I in the Truman Show? This has to be a joke, timed so that it reaches 100 pages on April 1st.
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Old 08-10-10, 03:46 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by recon455 View Post
Is this thread real? Am I in the Truman Show? This has to be a joke, timed so that it reaches 100 pages on April 1st.
I'm voting that it isn't a joke, simply because it is not funny enough.
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Old 08-10-10, 04:19 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by electrik View Post
I'm voting that it isn't a joke, simply because it is not funny enough.
Actually the thread is a pretty interesting study in how different people form opinions and "knowledge" based on either facts, their version of "common sense," what they "know," or what they heard from someone or read in a headline.

The vast majority of responses vehemently support the idea that wearing sunscreen is good and anyone who thinks otherwise is less than thoughtful. But is it really that clear? Here is an interesting article: "Sunscreen Use and the Risk for Melanoma: A Quantitative Review" published by the Annals of Internal Medicine. You can get the full review here: https://www.annals.org/content/139/12/966.full.pdf+html .

It wasn't a study, but a review of studies. The conclusion is "No association was seen between melanoma and sunscreen use. Failure to control for confounding factors may explain previous reports of positive associations linking melanoma to sunscreen use. In addition, it may take decades to detect a protective association between melanoma and use of the newer formulations of sunscreens."

The authors went on to say "Studies to date do not provide evidence of an increased risk for melanoma with sunscreen use. A few studies suggest a protective effect of sunscreen use against melanoma. Yet, most of the studies reviewed were conducted before protection against ultraviolet A radiation was developed and other sunscreen variables, such as substantivity and water resistance, were standardized. It will probably take decades to see the potential protective effect of regular use of sunscreens with SPF greater than 15, protection against ultraviolet A radiation, or use according to recommended technique of application on risk for melanoma."

Based on the responses to this thread you would think the evidence of sunscreen protection against melanoma was overwhelming to the point of being conclusive, yet when looked at from a review of statistics and studies done from 1966 to 2003 it doesn't seem so clear.
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Old 08-10-10, 04:28 PM
  #165  
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Well then, the OP is still confused
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Old 08-10-10, 04:36 PM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
Hey, I haven't seen you here in a while, where have you been hiding?
G'day, I've been around but mostly in Foo. I have been reading the Road forum but not posting much.

Anthony
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Old 08-10-10, 04:47 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by wjclint View Post
Actually the thread is a pretty interesting study in how different people form opinions and "knowledge" based on either facts, their version of "common sense," what they "know," or what they heard from someone or read in a headline.

The vast majority of responses vehemently support the idea that wearing sunscreen is good and anyone who thinks otherwise is less than thoughtful. But is it really that clear? Here is an interesting article: "Sunscreen Use and the Risk for Melanoma: A Quantitative Review" published by the Annals of Internal Medicine. You can get the full review here: https://www.annals.org/content/139/12/966.full.pdf+html .

It wasn't a study, but a review of studies. The conclusion is "No association was seen between melanoma and sunscreen use. Failure to control for confounding factors may explain previous reports of positive associations linking melanoma to sunscreen use. In addition, it may take decades to detect a protective association between melanoma and use of the newer formulations of sunscreens."

The authors went on to say "Studies to date do not provide evidence of an increased risk for melanoma with sunscreen use. A few studies suggest a protective effect of sunscreen use against melanoma. Yet, most of the studies reviewed were conducted before protection against ultraviolet A radiation was developed and other sunscreen variables, such as substantivity and water resistance, were standardized. It will probably take decades to see the potential protective effect of regular use of sunscreens with SPF greater than 15, protection against ultraviolet A radiation, or use according to recommended technique of application on risk for melanoma."

Based on the responses to this thread you would think the evidence of sunscreen protection against melanoma was overwhelming to the point of being conclusive, yet when looked at from a review of statistics and studies done from 1966 to 2003 it doesn't seem so clear.
I think one recent study from Australasia is beginning to show a negative association between melanoma and sunscreen use. When it comes to this case, i think it is hard to obtain a worth-while correlation between sunscreen use and above average exposure to the sun since the two go hand in hand - particularly in respect to individuals disposed to melanoma who are more likely to use sunscreen.

Most of the response from this thread is from people who trust in the consensus of dermatologists and various public health associations. They in turn trust in the results of various studies and first hand expert experience that sunscreen can reduce UV damage.
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Old 08-10-10, 04:49 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by electrik View Post
I'm not really sure sunscreen is a lifestyle choice, the same way that flossing your teeth is probably universally a good idea and something to improve your chances of a healthy future.
I'm not arguing that, I guess I should have clarified that I know many people.. and hear many people who are quite literally ... 'afraid' of the sun. They wear huge hats, slap on lotion every hour and do everything they can to prevent exposure. More power to them, you couldn't pay me to live like that. I enjoy sun exposure, its part of my lifestyle.

edit. I should note that I use sunblock quite often but when applicable and usually in lower SPF. I swim, bike, run and play softball weekly .. all of which are outdoor activities for me. Being in the sun is something I enjoy. To each his own, there is no right nor wrong way for someone to live their life. I know people who wear sunblock everywhere they... yet they smoke, ... I think you can see where I'm going with this.

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Old 08-10-10, 06:02 PM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by superNoid View Post
I'm not arguing that, I guess I should have clarified that I know many people.. and hear many people who are quite literally ... 'afraid' of the sun. They wear huge hats, slap on lotion every hour and do everything they can to prevent exposure. More power to them, you couldn't pay me to live like that. I enjoy sun exposure, its part of my lifestyle.

edit. I should note that I use sunblock quite often but when applicable and usually in lower SPF. I swim, bike, run and play softball weekly .. all of which are outdoor activities for me. Being in the sun is something I enjoy. To each his own, there is no right nor wrong way for someone to live their life. I know people who wear sunblock everywhere they... yet they smoke, ... I think you can see where I'm going with this.
Er, ok... you seem to be arguing it's a lifestyle choice to expose yourself to the extra risk... to what end does wearing sunscreen really impede your lifestyle? I've heard a similar argument about why condoms are lifestyle impediments also, so please be careful.
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Old 08-10-10, 08:21 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by rkelley23 View Post
All I have to say is...

Neutrogena with helioplex is in my pre-ride routine
+2
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Old 08-10-10, 08:43 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Wear a long-sleeved merino (wool) top. It's better than many fabrics at UV blocking, wicks sweat away so well that I rarely notice I've been sweating, and while it doesn't smell lock sun block, it'll never smell like body odor, either.
I rode today in 97 degree temps. Wear a long-sleeved wool top?

No thanks!
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