Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

ultegra 10 sucks!!!

Old 09-20-04, 08:28 AM
  #26  
sydney
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Originally Posted by 53-11 alltheway
The long cage parallelogram can handle 30T I'm told.
So can the short.
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Old 09-20-04, 09:13 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by 53-11 alltheway
Can you imagine somebody on a century ride with a double!!!!
i certainly hope so... since i'm doing just that this coming weekend, and then again 2 weeks later

t
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Old 09-20-04, 09:15 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by 53-11 alltheway
I just went to look at the gear ratio for the upcoming ultegra 10 and I'll I can say is it's wortless.

All they did was add another gear in the same gear cluster range. The widest you can still get is 12-27.

My question is where is the 11-27 cassette or 12-30 cassette? Why not add another gear to broaden the range. The damn 9 speed cassettes are already spaced close enough together!!!!!!

More useful to me would be a 11-25 cassette. Right now I'm using a 11-23 cassette. All they had to do was place a 25 tooth on the end of the 11-23 cassette.

Trust me 11-23 is already spaced close enough.
Really depends on local terrain, your riding habits, cadence, your shape, whether you ride alone or in group, etc.
I run 7sp, double, 39-53 and 13-23 7sp, and it's quite flat around here; the next cassette will be 13-21, which gives a 16 for the 23. I'd rather have close-spaced in the sweet spot than wide-range. And the front will go to 52, and I wouldn't mind a 50 or 51.

We're all different... ("not me!" - Life of Brian, Monty Python)
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Old 09-20-04, 09:22 AM
  #29  
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I was looking at the new U10 double and thinking that it gives me almost the same gearing as my U9 Triple (haven't been in the small crank all year) with lower weight.

Cheers
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Old 09-20-04, 10:31 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by 53-11 alltheway
I live in NOrthern california. THere is a century ride through the santa cruz mountains I want to do, but I need lower gears for that one.
Sounds like you want to do the Santa Cruz Mountain Challenge Century. I haven't done it yet but perhaps I'll give it a go next year. You can get up Jamison Creek Rd. without a triple but it sure makes the ride a lot more enjoyable. I've biked from Saratoga over to Boulder Creek, up Jamison Creek, down Empire Grade to Santa Cruz, and back up East Zayante, and back to Saratoga and was happy to have the triple.
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Old 09-20-04, 10:49 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by 53-11 alltheway
Can you imagine somebody on a century ride with a double!!!!
All of my century rides have been on a double. Including one with 7600 feet of climbing with a max grade of 16%.
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Old 09-20-04, 02:28 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by sydney
Why would someone that needs an 11 also need a 30? Seems to make no sense. Lotta folks ride centuries whth doubles.
Time trials with lots of hills...I went 11-32 MTB on the rear with a 56/42 front at a brutal TT recently. Could hold ok on the climbs, and smoked everybody on the flats. Finished second...our cats top hillclimber beat me by a minute and change over a 17 mile course.

Set up with an Ultegra 9 speed rear der and friction shifters the set up worked fine BTW.
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Old 09-20-04, 02:38 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by MERTON
i would go with a 32-42-53 triple and an 11-23 rear. why?

I don’t mean to offend anyone but if it is “Okay” let's talk about what the person started the thread about which was Ultegra 10 speed. If you want to talk about your favorite gears that is Cool just do it in your own thread. Lets keep to the original discussion that is about Ultegra 10.

Cheers

Shimano's 10-Speed Ultegra Officially Due In December

JULY 28, 2004 -- NUNSPEET, Netherlands (BRAIN)--One of the industry's worst-kept secrets is now officially fact: Shimano is coming out with a 10-speed Ultegra group. The new Ultegra, featuring Hollowtech II technology borrowed from Dura-Ace, will be available in the market in December, said Harald Troost, press relations officer for Shimano Europe.

"After the conspicuous revamp of the Shimano Dura-Ace components last year, it's Ultegra's turn now to get an extreme make-over. Ultegra has been remodeled into a completely new, high-end, road racing group set. It's stiffer, more ergonomic and faster for even more pleasure on the road. And despite adding a tenth cog to the cassette, the new group is lighter than the previous nine-speed model," Troost said.

The Ultegra crankset will be available in both double (52-39 and 53-39) and triple (52-39-30) versions. Cassettes come in 11-23, 12-23, 12-25 and 12-27 combinations and are compatible with both 9- and 10-speed Shimano freehubs and wheels. Shimano is also offering four junior cassettes in 13-25, 14-25, 15-25 and 16-27, Troost said.

Shimano redesigned its Dual Control levers into a more ergonomic shape and gave them arced travel for faster shifting. The dual pivot brakes incorporate an easy toe-in adjustment, and the company outfitted them with new pads that offer improved stopping power and 100 percent greater durability, Troost said.

The gruppo includes a lightweight aluminum seatpost with single-bolt adjustment, hubs with an improved sealing system and highly polished ball races. Troost said that even the front derailleur has increased rigidity--by 20 percent--for quick and accurate response
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Old 09-22-04, 11:28 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Hitchy
so you entered the Alpine again?. I got my 'preferential entry' thing last week.....I swore i was never gunna do it again, but i'm back for another attempt at sub 9 hours,
I also swore that I would NEVER do it again. I have the entry form at home, and the accommodation is "pencilled in" but I reckon I might stay in Adelaide and spend the week watching the Tour Down Under. Just about every cyclist I know is missing the Alpine to stay in town for the TDU, so it makes for a great week of cycling to all the various stages. BTW My official Alpine time was 11hr 20min, most of that was on Mt Buffalo, sad. I finished the first 130km in 5hr30min.

CHEERS.

Mark
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Old 09-22-04, 11:44 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Dutchy
I also swore that I would NEVER do it again. I have the entry form at home, and the accommodation is "pencilled in" but I reckon I might stay in Adelaide and spend the week watching the Tour Down Under. Just about every cyclist I know is missing the Alpine to stay in town for the TDU, so it makes for a great week of cycling to all the various stages. BTW My official Alpine time was 11hr 20min, most of that was on Mt Buffalo, sad. I finished the first 130km in 5hr30min.

CHEERS.

Mark

....A couple of the clubs from over here run trips to the TDU every year...sounds like a great week, i'd love to get over there & have a look. Won't happen while it clashes with the Aust. day weekend though. not so much for the Alpine classic, but we do the 'extended long weekend at Bright family thing'.....not that I'm complaining......(but sure would like to have a look at that TDU)

cheers,

hitchy
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Old 09-23-04, 07:32 AM
  #36  
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For those of you who are wondering why any road cyclists would prefer to have large rear cogs (or even have granny gears in the first place) in my case, its chondromalacia. If I put too much stress on my knees, I will suffer for days after. When going up steep hills, I have to take it very easy. I wish I had a 30 in the rear.
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Old 09-23-04, 10:33 AM
  #37  
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You can run a mountain bike rear derailure like an LX,XT or XTR long cage and use an 11-34, 11-32 or 11-30 cassette. I do this all the time, they shift great with the STI shifters and give you the wide range gearing you're looking for. My touring bike is a bridgestone RB-t with a dura-ace tripple 30-39-53 and DA tripple front derailure, and an XTR long cage derailure and 12-34 rear cassette in the rear, my shifters are Dura-ace STI tripples Chain is a CN 7701, it shifts and runs like a swiss watch, smooth and quiet. My 1 X 9 is built on a frame I built from 7005 aluminum dressed, fit and welded by myself, the drive trane is a Dura-ace crankset up front with a single 54 tooth Salsa ring with no ramps or pins mounted on the inside, the rear is an XTR long cage with an 11 - 34 XTR cassette, the shifting is handled with a single Dura-ace STI 9 speed on the right. The chain line has the chain ring centered on the cassette center line. Shifting is precise and crisp, the bike weighs in at just over 14 pounds it's fast and fun to ride. My point is you can mix and match Shimano 9 speed stuff and get any gear combination you want. The new 10 speed stuff is changing everything though, the compatibility and flexibility is not there, personally I feel Shimano is making a mistake, they are causing us to look elsewhere for parts, and we are finding them from other manufacturers. Sram for one is on Shimanos heels, their components are getting better and lasting longer at a lower price, Campy is comming back strong, they are predicted to come out with a compact drive trane for next year. I personally have not been a campy fan but I do ride their record road pedals on all my road bikes they grip you like a gorilla, have the best bearings I've seen and only let you out when you really want out.
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Old 09-23-04, 02:50 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Dusk
I don’t mean to offend anyone but if it is “Okay” let's talk about what the person started the thread about which was Ultegra 10 speed. If you want to talk about your favorite gears that is Cool just do it in your own thread. Lets keep to the original discussion that is about Ultegra 10.

Cheers
I think this thread started as a complaint to the gear range offered in the ultegra group...and I fully agree, why not offer a 25 with an 11 or 12 with a 28 or 29? I took a 11x23 and a 12x25 and put them together to build a 11x25. I'm using it with a 48x34 compact for the hills. I'm looking for a 12x28 or 29 to build a "century" bike. here is an option to harris: http://www.xxcycle.com/cgi-bin/shop....GO.x=10&GO.y=7
cheers!
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Old 09-23-04, 10:29 PM
  #39  
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I have 39-30 but I don't shimano.

Campy Rules HAHA
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Old 09-23-04, 10:48 PM
  #40  
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Imagine someone riding a century with a double, whaaat? I can't imagine anyone riding anything with a triple, unless they're a newbie.
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Old 09-23-04, 10:53 PM
  #41  
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50/36 w/12-25t or 13-26t 10spd cassette on the A-Line bike covers about all the bases without the 3rd ring for rides with lots of climbing over lots of miles. Closer to home, 53/39 w/12-25t on the mud bike works fine even on the shorter 8-12% climbs.

15 years ago, 52/42 would have been OK. Not anymore. I've just about amortized the legs I developed in the 80's and was just happy enough to maintain through the 90's.
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Old 09-24-04, 07:41 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by fogrider
I think this thread started as a complaint to the gear range offered in the ultegra group...and I fully agree, why not offer a 25 with an 11 or 12 with a 28 or 29? I took a 11x23 and a 12x25 and put them together to build a 11x25. I'm using it with a 48x34 compact for the hills. I'm looking for a 12x28 or 29 to build a "century" bike. here is an option to harris: http://www.xxcycle.com/cgi-bin/shop....GO.x=10&GO.y=7
cheers!
I understand your point fogder, but even Ultegra 9 has never had anything larger than 27 in back.


Ultegra Shimano 9 speed cassettes
Sprocket Tooth Configuration

11-21
11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21
11-23
11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23
12-21
12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,21
12-23
12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23
12-25
12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23,25
12-27
12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,27


You have always had to move to XTR, or XT etc. to get the big gears. I know a few people that have Ultegra triples in front and XT back and can get the big gears they need for the road, load or knees.

Dura-Ace and Ultegra are road race groups and fill that market and if you are looking for the other gears go to the group that has that.

I guess I see complaining about Ultegra not having a 30 is like complaining that DA doesn’t have a triple….so might as well yell at a wall….get just as far convincing it to change.

So when the Thread is Ultegra gears suck…..well Ultegra is what it is. If you are looking or a particular gear 30 or a 34 you can get it but know that you will mix systems which is not a problem. Also the performance of any derailleur is dictated by the range it has to work over. So DA or Ultegra work and feel as they do because the work over the range they are designed for. If I want a 30 – 34 in back the XT or XTR will give me better performance for that…

Cheers
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Old 09-24-04, 08:34 AM
  #43  
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"I guess I see complaining about Ultegra not having a 30 is like complaining that DA doesn’t have a triple….so might as well yell at a wall….get just as far convincing it to change. "


Dura-Ace does have a triple.
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Old 09-24-04, 09:57 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by feltdude
Imagine someone riding a century with a double, whaaat? I can't imagine anyone riding anything with a triple, unless they're a newbie.
Heras used a triple in the Vuelta, and he's not what I'd call a n00b. You, on the other hand...
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Old 09-24-04, 09:59 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Indolent58
"I guess I see complaining about Ultegra not having a 30 is like complaining that DA doesn’t have a triple….so might as well yell at a wall….get just as far convincing it to change. "


Dura-Ace does have a triple.
Not at this time with the DA 10 speed 7800.

You can see the specs at:

http://dura-ace.shimano.com/publish/...B7800_spec.pdf

Cheers
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Old 09-24-04, 11:35 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Dusk
Not at this time with the DA 10 speed 7800.

You can see the specs at:

http://dura-ace.shimano.com/publish/...B7800_spec.pdf

Cheers
True, but DA 9 speed does have a triple. I suspect the reason Shimano dropped the triple for DA 10 speed is that the 9sp version was fairly widely panned as suffering from poor engineering, and because the upgraded and much more expensive 2005 Ultegra line will have a DA-style one piece triple crank available. I would be suprised if a DA triple doesn't reappear by 2006.

There is a strong demand for high-end triple groups - Campy has had Record available as a triple for a while now. Component and bike manufacters are increasingly recognizing that true racers are a miniscule segment of the market and that a large portion of the people who actually have the money to buy high-end stuff (working adults w/o lots of time to train) can make good use of lower gearing.
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Old 09-24-04, 02:57 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Indolent58
True, but DA 9 speed does have a triple. I suspect the reason Shimano dropped the triple for DA 10 speed is that the 9sp version was fairly widely panned as suffering from poor engineering, and because the upgraded and much more expensive 2005 Ultegra line will have a DA-style one piece triple crank available. I would be suprised if a DA triple doesn't reappear by 2006.

There is a strong demand for high-end triple groups - Campy has had Record available as a triple for a while now. Component and bike manufacters are increasingly recognizing that true racers are a miniscule segment of the market and that a large portion of the people who actually have the money to buy high-end stuff (working adults w/o lots of time to train) can make good use of lower gearing.
When I read your post without knowing for sure what the answers are to my questions I would point you to a road bike if you are a no gear or backpack user and need finders (youll have to get a bike that will take them), or a cyclocross if you need to put both a rack and fenders on. I don’t think you need the internal gears for weather reasons but you might like them if the bike is stored in a place where external gears can get damaged. Also they can be a little lower maintenance (dry sand on gears add wear).


I agree there is a Market for a high end triple. I just don't think that is the pro market. I wonder what the weight of the Ultegra triple is? Could it be close enough that the work of making a Triple DA might not be worth the effort? I would like to see a DA Triple but right now it is not for sale. At this point I would rather have the new Ultegra 10 with a triple than the old Dura-Ace 9 with a triple or put a Ultegra 10 Triple on the Dura-Ace 10 for now.

Cheers.



Cheers
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Old 09-24-04, 05:44 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by 53-11 alltheway
It's not the 11 so much that I'd miss so much, but a 30 low gear would be nice with a double sometimes.\

Doubles would be popular again if you could get a 12-30 cassette.

Can you imagine somebody on a century ride with a double!!!!
Yes I can imagine somebody in a century with a dbl chainring. Can you imagine that same person doing a 203 mile race with almost 6000 ft of climbing with a dbl? I can, I was there, I've done it. Triples are overrated. Learn to spin the 23/21/19 and you'll do fine.
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Old 09-24-04, 10:35 PM
  #49  
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I agree with CPcyclist. Campy rules. I have the voloce groupo on my marinoni. Who wants the extra cables flapping around?
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Old 09-25-04, 03:34 AM
  #50  
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I ride an 11-21 cogset, and a 53-39 and I don' feel the hills, and I do double century on a regular basis, and I love those hills, oh by the way I am 56
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