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Specialized Customer Service

Old 08-13-10, 03:40 PM
  #201  
cfblakeman
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Originally Posted by tuxbailey View Post
+1

A blog that has 15K readers gotta be interesting in some way. OP, would you put your blog in your signature once the situation is resolved one way or the other?
Yes, when it's resolved. In fact, if they resolve it well, I'll do a blog post on that, too.
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Old 08-13-10, 03:41 PM
  #202  
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Originally Posted by tuxbailey View Post
+1

A blog that has 15K readers gotta be interesting in some way. OP, would you put your blog in your signature once the situation is resolved one way or the other?
https://blog.teamnimbuswest.com/contact-us/

https://cranksetgroup.com/
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Old 08-13-10, 03:42 PM
  #203  
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What is a slipping BB? Haven't heard of that one before. Sounds like it needed some locktite on the bearings. As far as I know that was the only thing that changed in the Specialized instructions to the dealers. Also, FYI most of the bikes come with the cranks already installed. So most likely, your LBS didn't install the cranks wrong.

The dealer should have put carbon paste on the seat post collar. That would have helped the slipping. You say that the shop fixed the collar the moment you took it to them... with a free replacement as a substitute... then the proper part from Specialized.... I don't see the problem here, other other than why in the world it woudl take you so long to address the problem when you post was slipping on every ride?
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Old 08-13-10, 03:45 PM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by cfblakeman View Post
The first time I took the bike to the shop I was wearing a business suit and smiling a lot, and they told me that since I didn't buy it there, they couldn't help me - it went down hill from there. I'll reiterate again for the 20th time that if I was a jerk I would have started this thread nine months ago, and if I was a jerk I would have plastered the name of the LBS all over this post (found out they have stores in four states - pretty big shop).

And while you might find it interesting to become a mechanic just because you bought I car, I find it interesting to pay someone else to fix my car. Same thing with my bike. I didn't buy a bike to become a gear head, I bought it to ride up hills hard and flats even harder, and for you to impugn my character because I don't want to learn how to fix the bike is simply arrogant on your part - you know how to fix a bike and I don't - very cool.


Why do you think I bought a $6,500 bike? Partly because I loved it, partly because I'm expecting to buy something that would have minimal trouble and partly because I have the money to pay someone else to be the expert. Your logic follows that apparently there are no mechanics or shops you can trust and anybody who does is an idiot. I happen to think more highly of bike mechanics than you do.
This is true. My bike is no where near as expensive as yours but I still pay the mechanics to fix/clean/service it.I do the odd bits of work when I have time and/or am inclined to and I certainly know how to do it, I just cant do it as quick or quite as well as a pro-trained mech. But when the mech pharks up, that pisses me off.
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Old 08-13-10, 03:46 PM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by garysol1 View Post
You are correct that I have never met or know you but I do know Specialized and as a user of there products as well as an employee of a shop that sells lots of there products I do know that they will bend over backwards to make a customer happy when the situation warrants it. Specialized is not perfect, no manufacturer is but I have never in all of my years with them witnessed them being unfair to an end user.
With that said i do feel for you and hope you get this all worked out.
Thanks, Gary. I look forward to this getting resolved appropriately. I truly feel that with not being able to go through the original shop, that I've exposed a process problem with Specialized not being able to directly handle warranty and defect issues that the LBS normally shields them from.

Can't blame the LBS (which is why I haven't named them here) - I didn't buy my bike there. But as I've said before, I sure wouldn't do customer service the way this LBS did, either.
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Old 08-13-10, 03:50 PM
  #206  
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Originally Posted by briscoelab View Post
The dealer should have put carbon paste on the seat post collar. You say that the shop fixed the collar the moment you took it to them.
As mentioned a number of times before, the post had paste on it when it was still slipping. I didn't say they fixed it the moment I took it to them. I said that the first time they actually torqued it themselves, which was months after the problem started, they saw that it was defective. Until then they just kept telling me to torque it tighter.
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Old 08-13-10, 03:57 PM
  #207  
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Thanks.
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Old 08-13-10, 03:57 PM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
But the issue of making a lot of noise on an internet forum is the same. Bottom line is that they pretty much don't care (about the forums).
Well, they should care. I learnt even as a freshman in B-School something along the line of an unhappy customer shrills about their experience to much more people than a happy customer communicating their experience re your brand. In the scheme of things, Specialized should have probably asked the OP how they could make him happy, and if making him happy is gonna be more expensive than giving him his $7000 back, then "cut your losses".

By the way, can you tell that marketing was my major in college and grad school? And in brand stewardship, you just sometimes bend over backwards to keep things sane, even though the customer might be an a**. YMMV
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Old 08-13-10, 04:02 PM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by LUCAS View Post
Well, they should care. I learnt even as a freshman in B-School something along the line of an unhappy customer shrills about their experience to much more people than a happy customer communicating their experience re your brand. In the scheme of things, Specialized should have probably asked the OP how they could make him happy, and if making him happy is gonna be more expensive than giving him his $7000 back, then "cut your losses".

By the way, can you tell that marketing was my major in college and grad school? And in brand stewardship, you just sometimes bend over backwards to keep things sane, even though the customer might be an a**. YMMV
Since you're a marketing geek (as am I) here's another tidbit for you. Research shows that someone who hears about another person's problem is actually LESS LIKELY TO BUY from the offending company than even the person who had the problem. Word of mouth marketing is the strongest form of good or bad advertising, (see a book called Word of Mouth Marketing), which is why I waited many months and tried to get as far as I could with Specialized before going public
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Old 08-13-10, 04:04 PM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by cfblakeman View Post
Since you're a marketing geek (as am I) here's another tidbit for you. Research shows that someone who hears about another person's problem is actually LESS LIKELY TO BUY from the offending company than even the person who had the problem. Word of mouth marketing is the strongest form of good or bad advertising, (see a book called Word of Mouth Marketing), which is why I waited many months and tried to get as far as I could with Specialized before going public
The issue is that your inability to face the facts has done more to damage your credibility than it has to damage specialized's reputation.

Give it up, [edited]

Last edited by mike868y; 08-14-10 at 05:14 AM. Reason: edited, unwarranted personal attack. sorry.
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Old 08-13-10, 04:15 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by mike868y View Post
The issue is that your inability to face the facts has done more to damage your credibility than it has to damage specialized's reputation.
Another personal attack with no facts to back it up.

What facts am I not facing? That Specialized sold me a lemon with multiple defects and has not backed it properly? or?
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Old 08-13-10, 04:25 PM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by cfblakeman View Post
Another personal attack with no facts to back it up.

What facts am I not facing? That Specialized sold me a lemon with multiple defects and has not backed it properly? or?
By your own admission:
...hide behind the legal argument that the warranty expired a couple months ago...
A very valid reason, IMO, a company should stand by their policies whether in their own favor or in the customers favor. They should never wrong a customer, nor put themselves in a position to be walked over. They owe it to their stock holders, investers, and their employees who depend on a successful company for salary to put food on the table and roof over the heads of their families.
They are right legally
Again by your own admission
...but they are wrong ethically...
In your opinion...
and the best way to create dissatisfied customers
Self entitling, whiny, arrogant dissatisifed customers. They likely realize, like with all businesses, they can't bend over backwards and please every customer. Some customers simply cannot be appeased.
Any time a company has to begin to pull the legal card means they have no ethical argument left.
This is a logical fallacy on your part. Grow up.
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Old 08-13-10, 04:48 PM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by Menel View Post
By your own admission:
A very valid reason, IMO, a company should stand by their policies whether in their own favor or in the customers favor. They should never wrong a customer, nor put themselves in a position to be walked over. They owe it to their stock holders, investers, and their employees who depend on a successful company for salary to put food on the table and roof over the heads of their families.

Again by your own admission

In your opinion...
Self entitling, whiny, arrogant dissatisfied customers. They likely realize, like with all businesses, they can't bend over backwards and please every customer. Some customers simply cannot be appeased.
This is a logical fallacy on your part. Grow up.
Thank you for putting some facts out there (even though you still couldn't resist the third grader "grow up" at the end).

So it looks like we both see facts differently, but since I'm not seeing them through your lens, I should be the subject of your personal derision. A better way to win an argument is to refute facts, not attack people.

So let's look at a few.

They are right legally to not resolve the shifter issue, which is not the major issue. The other three issues they are legally obliged to fix per the warranty - it just took them ten months to admit that they were warranty issues, and in the meantime I spent a lot of money per their advice fixing symptoms while they already knew the cause and just didn't want to ante up the new rings or the rebuilt BB.

And the "they are wrong ethically" comment was only about the shifter as well. So 3/5 of your facts are about the one piece of equipment that I said multiple times in this post was simply icing on the cake, and not the issue. The other two quotes don't have anything to do with the bike but just formed the basis for you to continue making personal attacks.

You didn't address the core issue because to do so would require that we stop throwing darts at one another and talk about the bike. So to summarize the real issue once again - The bike had a bad BB build, a defective set of rings, and a defective seatpost bracket. It took many months of me pushing hard on Specialized to get them to grudgingly give me free parts, while still requiring I pay for the service to replace their defective parts. They also continued to tell me to spend money fixing symptoms (getting adjustments, etc.) which have gone unreimbursed. And at best I will end up having spent a few hundred dollars without reimbursement, an awful lot of time, and end up with a bike with damage to the frame (cosmetic? structural? stay tuned).

Those are the core facts - would love to talk about these. Hopefully you won't feel it necessary to go personal again - let's just stick with the core issue. Thanks.
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Old 08-13-10, 05:05 PM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by cfblakeman View Post
Got any comments about the issue itself, or do you feel more comfortable with personal attacks like UMD?
Once you have been around here for a while you will come to expect it, and hopefully ignore it. UMD is a good guy, just has his own point of view and he is entitled to it. Does'nt mean he's right or wrong. Im guessing most of us have never experienced these kinds of unfortunate mishaps. Others here dont have their own BF persona so they follow others, those people are easy to see, ignore them.

That said, you have probably not dealt with this perfectly. Then I wouldnt buy a $6500 bike and expect to have to keep repairing it over and over. Your situation is unique since you moved 2000 miles away from the real offender(my opinion). My advice would be contact Specialized, ask them to refer you to a shop to get this resolved once and for all.
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Old 08-13-10, 05:21 PM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by BigSean View Post
Once you have been around here for a while you will come to expect it, and hopefully ignore it. UMD is a good guy, just has his own point of view and he is entitled to it. Does'nt mean he's right or wrong. Im guessing most of us have never experienced these kinds of unfortunate mishaps. Others here dont have their own BF persona so they follow others, those people are easy to see, ignore them.

That said, you have probably not dealt with this perfectly. Then I wouldnt buy a $6500 bike and expect to have to keep repairing it over and over. Your situation is unique since you moved 2000 miles away from the real offender(my opinion). My advice would be contact Specialized, ask them to refer you to a shop to get this resolved once and for all.
Good advice, thanks. I certainly haven't dealt with this perfectly or anything close to perfectly. The whole thing has been a bad plan carried out as well as possible, with a lot of learning along the way.

Would love to have Specialized refer me to a shop that could resolve it, but there are only two things left to resolve and neither of them reside with an LBS: 1) all the money I wasted on treating symptoms per Specialized's recommendations and the costs incurred to change out the defects, and 2) the chipped up frame (not asking for a new frame, but definitely want Specialized to pay for a non-bias third party (not a Specialized shop - they have a dog in the hunt) to tell me the frame is safe).
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Old 08-13-10, 05:55 PM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by cfblakeman View Post
So - let's see if you have anything to contribute to the discussion or if you just want to attack my character. I have a lemon that Specialized isn't stepping up to deal with - they admit they have all kinds of defective products here, but I'm left with bills and a chewed up frame. Got any comments about the issue itself, or do you feel more comfortable with personal attacks like UMD?
What pesonal attacks? A lot have been flying around, I haven't been part of any of them. Search for all of my posts in this thread and show me one personal attack. I've criticised your word choice, analogies, relationship with your LBS, criticism of Specialized, faulting Specialized for a Shimano issue, the likelyhood of anyone important caring about all this noise, and the amount of money you spent, but nowhere have I said anything about you personally.
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Old 08-13-10, 05:58 PM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
What pesonal attacks? A lot have been flying around, I haven't been part of any of them. Search for all of my posts in this thread and show me one personal attack. I've criticised your word choice, analogies, relationship with your LBS, criticism of Specialized, faulting Specialized for a Shimano issue, the likelyhood of anyone important caring about all this noise, and the amount of money you spent, but nowhere have I said anything about you personally.
It's pretty safe to say that umd is right on this one. Had he been a "bad boy" I'm sure we would have been informed about it several times. He doesn't seem to slip too many things by the members here.
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Old 08-13-10, 06:03 PM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by cfblakeman View Post
As mentioned a number of times before, the post had paste on it when it was still slipping. I didn't say they fixed it the moment I took it to them. I said that the first time they actually torqued it themselves, which was months after the problem started, they saw that it was defective. Until then they just kept telling me to torque it tighter.
Back to the issues, no personal attacks...

OK, the bike came with a defective part. Not a deffective design, a deffective part.

a) The shop that built it should have noticed.
b) The shop that you kept taking it to should have looked at it themselves instead of blowing you off.

How would Specialized's customer service been able to diagnose this over the phone? All it took was a competent mechanic actually taking a moment to look at it. It should not have taken months. Someone screwed up. Who?
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Old 08-13-10, 06:10 PM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by cfblakeman View Post
Just can't let misinformation like this go. It was a creaking and SLIPPING BB, and as posted 20 other places in this thread, the LBS built it EXACTLY like the written instructions from Specialized, who ten months or so later sent out new written instructions to the LBS's telling them the first build was wrong. That's not an oversight by an LBS. If they had built it without following the specs it would effect warranty.
A continued look at the issues, no personal attacks...

Unfortunately, the BB30 design is prone to creaking. Not sure what slipping means in the context of BB. It is essentially designed to eternally "slip", after all, it's just 2 giant bearings. Regarding the instructions, do you know that they were actually wrong, or if they were just later revised. When I get home I'll find my instructions. I have an older '08 frame and a newer '09 frame so I should have 2 sets of instructions of different vintages, straddling the date your bike was produced. Remember though as a "late '08 model" that is labeled as '09, it may just have older instructions because it is, well, older. It seems likely to me that it is just a matter of additional knowledge learned after having the product out in the market for more time.

That said, I'm not sure how creaking is a warranty issue. What were the symptoms of the slipping?
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Old 08-13-10, 06:57 PM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
Back to the issues, no personal attacks...

OK, the bike came with a defective part. Not a deffective design, a deffective part.

a) The shop that built it should have noticed.
b) The shop that you kept taking it to should have looked at it themselves instead of blowing you off.

How would Specialized's customer service been able to diagnose this over the phone? All it took was a competent mechanic actually taking a moment to look at it. It should not have taken months. Someone screwed up. Who?
Specialize knew all along that:
1) The BB build was wrong and yet defended it from the beginning and had me paying for "maintenance" (I've got emails to Specialized to prove it).
2) The chain rings were a DEFECTIVE DESIGN - the knew from long before I bought this bike that they were designed too thin and light and yet had me paying for maintenance for months until I outed them.

Specialized screwed up.
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Old 08-13-10, 06:58 PM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
A continued look at the issues, no personal attacks...

Unfortunately, the BB30 design is prone to creaking. Not sure what slipping means in the context of BB. It is essentially designed to eternally "slip", after all, it's just 2 giant bearings. Regarding the instructions, do you know that they were actually wrong, or if they were just later revised. When I get home I'll find my instructions. I have an older '08 frame and a newer '09 frame so I should have 2 sets of instructions of different vintages, straddling the date your bike was produced. Remember though as a "late '08 model" that is labeled as '09, it may just have older instructions because it is, well, older. It seems likely to me that it is just a matter of additional knowledge learned after having the product out in the market for more time.

That said, I'm not sure how creaking is a warranty issue. What were the symptoms of the slipping?
Slipping - the LBS could take the cranks, turn them in opposite directions and feel all kinds of play - so slipping is a poor choice of words - loose is better.

Were the instructions wrong? I'm going by what Specialized told me. They said they were wrong. The LBS also said they were specific in the instructions then changed in writing later. And I love how the LBS tried to cover for this. They originally insisted the initial written instructions were right (later rescinded this). I asked, "If they were right, why are you now asking me to bring my bike in so you can rebuild the BB based on new written instructions." The answer was like something coming from the floor of Congress "the initial instructions were right then, and these are right now."
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Old 08-13-10, 07:01 PM
  #222  
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Originally Posted by cfblakeman View Post
LOL - never owned a Trek, thanks - never even test rode one. Love my SL2 Pro for the way it rides and fits me, which is why I didn't say a thing in any public way for a year and three months of this nonsense.

"Undeserved slagging" would be me coming out three weeks after buying the bike in April of 2009 saying the BB is making all kinds of noise and slipping, and the chain is already regularly unshipping. "Deserved slagging" is when Specialized has given me a final assessment 1 yr and 3 months later of what they will and will not do that doesn't resolve this and leaves me with a chewed up frame and unpaid bills. Believe me, it was quite a turn of heart for me to take my SL2 Pro to this forum and trash it - I've been hanging on for quite some time because of how much I tried to like this bike.

And even as of today I have yet to trash Specialized to my 20,000 Twitter followers or the 15,000 following my blog. I'd say that's a picture of restraint to this point. I won't use those more powerful public forums until I hear back from the letter I'm sending Specialized.

FYI - I love the "pick your LBS wisely" comment - am I supposed to see the guys books and get a guarantee he's not going to retire and move to Maui before I buy? Did you do that kind of wise due diligence for all the bikes you've purchased? Great 20/20 hindsight I think.
Actually, yes I did. I got to know the guys at my lbs with repairs and group rides before I ever bought a bike from them.

Regardless. I am done with this thread. Good luck.
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Old 08-13-10, 07:07 PM
  #223  
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Originally Posted by cfblakeman View Post
Specialize knew all along that:
1) The BB build was wrong and yet defended it from the beginning and had me paying for "maintenance" (I've got emails to Specialized to prove it).
2) The chain rings were a DEFECTIVE DESIGN - the knew from long before I bought this bike that they were designed too thin and light and yet had me paying for maintenance for months until I outed them.

Specialized screwed up.
I'm trying to discuss the issues individually for clarity. Any comments relating to the seatpost issue?
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Old 08-13-10, 07:50 PM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
I'm trying to discuss the issues individually for clarity. Any comments relating to the seatpost issue?
shill.

specialized is so terrible it barely has any presence in the pros, that's how you know the design is bad. And those chainrings, so flimsy.
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Old 08-13-10, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
And those chainrings, so flimsy.
Actually they were but easily replaced.....
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