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Saddle-to-bar drop : Going beyond the frame's limitations

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Saddle-to-bar drop : Going beyond the frame's limitations

Old 09-14-10, 10:41 AM
  #26  
urbanknight
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Originally Posted by DScott View Post
Stretch?

Bend your elbows?
I know. Due to my odd proportions, I can rarely get any more than 1 or 2 inches of bar drop, but I still manage to get my back as low as in that photo comfortably. Somehow, cycling culture has started to act as if bar drop is equal to penis length.
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Old 09-14-10, 10:56 AM
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It's not bar drop, but going from an ergo bar with the hoods mounted higher up, to a more traditional bend bar with a more traditional hoods placement is worth ~1.5cm of drop.

OR use your drops more!
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Old 09-14-10, 11:05 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Triguy View Post
It's not bar drop, but going from an ergo bar with the hoods mounted higher up, to a more traditional bend bar with a more traditional hoods placement is worth ~1.5cm of drop.

OR use your drops more!
It's not really that simple. Assuming the two bars have the same reach and drop, you'd have your 1.5cm on the hoods only and not the tops or drops. I'd also like to point out that you can mount the hoods lower and higher on any bar, and browsing pictures of pro's bikes will show a wide variety in this.
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Old 09-14-10, 11:21 AM
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Ditching the super tall HS spacer that Specializes ships the bikes with for the short 8mm one will gain you a lot right there. Then if you need lower, just get a -17* stem. I used a Deda Newton pista stem for a while at -23*. Looks a bit odd, but worked great.

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Old 09-14-10, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by briscoelab View Post
Ditching the super tall HS spacer that Specializes ships the bikes with for the short 8mm one will gain you a lot right there. Then if you need lower, just get a -17* stem. I used a Deda Newton pista stem for a while at -23*. Looks a bit odd, but worked great.

This you?




(j/k- you just stretch alot, right?)
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Old 09-14-10, 02:10 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by DScott View Post
This you?

No, that's me
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Old 09-14-10, 03:09 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
No, that's me
Who would have expected the missing link to be found on a forum. It's a great day for science!
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Old 09-14-10, 03:18 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
It's not really that simple. Assuming the two bars have the same reach and drop, you'd have your 1.5cm on the hoods only and not the tops or drops. I'd also like to point out that you can mount the hoods lower and higher on any bar, and browsing pictures of pro's bikes will show a wide variety in this.
Well, I guess that is why I said "it's not bar drop"; it is however, a drop in the position which one uses most of time; the hoods. As you point out, the tops position is the same. However, I stand by it being a way to change the drop of the traditional "hoods" position; which myself and most people I've ever biked with use most of the time.

I guess I should also say, that this requires a good understanding of what a person wants from their contact points, bar reach/drop and not affecting other portions of their fit. Is it the easiest way to get more drop? no. Is it a way to set up your bike without an adjustable stem and have 1.5cm more drop? Yes.

Flat transition/high positioning:
https://video.cyclingnews.com/photos/...full_view3.jpg

Dropped traditional transition:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Uzq0Ac7cmI...r_bend_600.jpg
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Old 09-14-10, 04:27 PM
  #34  
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^ I see your point.

I used to have trouble understanding why people try to get tons of bar drop and then get a compact bar with 120mm of drop until I realized what it was they were going after.
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Old 09-14-10, 06:40 PM
  #35  
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My goal, ultimately, is to have my drops, hoods, and tops all lower than they are now. At this point, I find that I am only on the hoods or tops if I'm climbing. Otherwise I feel awkwardly upright. So about 90% of my rides are spent in the drops, with my elbows bent to various degrees. In headwinds, my forearms are parallel to the ground, which can take its toll on the triceps.

I don't have enough cash to consider getting a new frame with more suitable geometry of comparable quality.
I haven't considered the effect of a different headset in the equation. I'll check into this.
I don't want to change reach or crank length to generate more drop. These will cause ill effects I would rather avoid.


Thanks for the input and ideas, guys!
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Old 09-14-10, 06:52 PM
  #36  
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One of my friends who rode for Saturn actually grounded material off of the top & bottom of the head tube on his Lemond bikes. He won the US Pro Championships the same year.
His position looked painful, but he could fly.
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Old 09-14-10, 06:53 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
No, that's me
Originally Posted by wens View Post
Who would have expected the missing link to be found on a forum. It's a great day for science!
umd is the link between roadies and racers?

Kinda fits...
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Old 09-14-10, 07:01 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by DanMartin View Post
One of my friends who rode for Saturn actually grounded material off of the top & bottom of the head tube on his Lemond bikes. He won the US Pro Championships the same year.
His position looked painful, but he could fly.


This seems like the only example of "Going beyond the frame's limitations".
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Old 09-14-10, 07:06 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by DanMartin View Post
One of my friends who rode for Saturn actually grounded material off of the top & bottom of the head tube on his Lemond bikes. He won the US Pro Championships the same year.
His position looked painful, but he could fly.
That's inspring!
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Old 09-14-10, 07:24 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
Specialized makes a -22 and there are plenty of -17 stems out there, so you obviously have options.
this is what i would (and may) do. im not a fan of adjustable stems for daily riding. both of these survived a sunday in hell:

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Old 09-15-10, 09:02 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by DScott View Post
Stretch?

Bend your elbows?

who is that masked man?
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Old 09-15-10, 09:32 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
who is that masked man?


"This is Asterix.

He's a French cartoon character who knocks about in ancient Gaul (as France used to be called a while back).

He fights a constant series of battles against the Romans along with his various friends. And, because he's got access to a magic potion, he and his mates always win. "

From here.
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Old 09-15-10, 09:49 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by thirdgenbird View Post
this is what i would (and may) do. im not a fan of adjustable stems for daily riding. both of these survived a sunday in hell:

The setup in the second picture is somewhat problematic. My understanding and the recommendation of at least some fork manufacturers is that you need to run a spacer under the stem. (Thus see Cancellera's setup in the first picture)


According to Trek:

Always place at least one 5mm spacer below the stem. This spacer
rests on top of the bearing cover, which also must be at least 5mm in
height. Alternately, do not place a spacer group that exceeds 40mm
in height collectively underneath the stem. With a carbon steer tube,
always place at least one 5mm spacer above the stem and below the
top cap


Not sure how much it increases the risk of a steerer tube failure. But putting in a 5mm spacer seems worth it if there's any significant risk.
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Old 09-15-10, 09:51 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
The setup in the second picture is somewhat problematic. My understanding and the recommendation of at least some fork manufacturers is that you need to run a spacer under the stem. (Thus see Cancellera's setup in the first picture)

Not sure how much it increases the risk of a steerer tube failure. But putting in a 5mm spacer seems worth it if there's any significant risk.
I was completely unaware of this. I've been running no spacers at all for a while now.

Can anyone confirm/deny this? I'm worried now.
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Old 09-15-10, 09:53 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Blackdays View Post
I was completely unaware of this. I've been running no spacers at all for a while now.

Can anyone confirm/deny this? I'm worried now.
what i heard is you can slam your stem down, but you need a spacer on the top to even out the force on the top of the steering tube
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Old 09-15-10, 09:58 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by mcjimbosandwich View Post
what i heard is you can slam your stem down, but you need a spacer on the top to even out the force on the top of the steering tube

That's my understanding as well and I've been running this on both of my bikes without incident; you need the top spacer to avoid damaging the steerer tube.
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Old 09-15-10, 10:00 AM
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Alright, that makes me feel better.

Thanks.
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Old 09-15-10, 10:03 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
who is that masked man?
Gumby?

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Old 09-15-10, 10:07 AM
  #49  
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The recommendation is mostly coming form TREK.

https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...r-tubes_121389

The theory is that the stem directly on the top of the headset causes a stress point.

Whether there is anything to it, it seems to me that a 5mm spacer under the stem is cheap insurance.

It would also appear that Saxo Bank's mechanics think that there is something to it. Otherwise they wouldn't have set up Cancellera's bike like that.
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Last edited by merlinextraligh; 09-15-10 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 09-15-10, 11:23 AM
  #50  
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i completely understand putting a spacer on top of the stem as to not clamp on the end of the tube. with a material like carbon fiber it just makes sense.

technically, i can see where having one underneath the stem reduces a stress point, but if that is how close these forks are designed to failure, i will stick with my aluminum steerer. finishing behind is better than not finishing.

personally, if i were a professional that was looking to add weight to a bike under the limit, my first requests would be aluminum bars and an aluminum steerer.
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