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-   -   Learning to Spin (https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/681399-learning-spin.html)

mwchandler21 09-19-10 10:24 AM

Learning to Spin
 
I recently got a cadence censor and found that my cadence was around 60. I have been trying to up it and have got it to where I'm now averaging around 75. I have done this mostly by lowering my gearing any time I start to see my cadence slip, but find 90 to feel unnatural right now. Is there any other tips on how to build my cadence up closer to the magical 90?

Flatballer 09-19-10 10:34 AM

the quickest way to get a good spin is to buy rollers.

The cheaper way is to start doing high cadence drills. Just spend 5 minutes twice a ride spinning at something that feels uncomfortable to you. If 90 feels awkward, start there. Eventually you'll be doing your cadence drills at 130.

botto 09-19-10 10:42 AM


Originally Posted by Flatballer (Post 11488855)
the qickest way to get a good spin is to buy rollers.

The cheaper way is to start doing high cadence drills. Just spend 5 minutes twice a ride spinning at something that feels uncomfortable to you. If 90 feels awkward, start there. Eventually you'll be doing your cadence drills at 130.

this.

DannoXYZ 09-19-10 02:38 PM

Rollers are the best way because it magnifies the effects of variable-pressure around the pedal-stroke. You want to even out the peak and minimum-forces around the pedal-stroke. Some common issues most people have:

1. not unweighting the leg on the upstroke. There's a lot of lost energy and inefficiency when the leg on the downstroke has to waste energy pushing up on the dead leg on the other side. This also causes you to have to push down much harder on one side than the other, leading to imbalances that makes smooth high-RPM spinning difficult due to rocking and bouncing.

2. continuing to push down on the pedal when it's at the bottom of the stroke. This causes all your leg-forces to try and stretch the crankarm. Not really possible and it causes you to rock back & forth on the bike, not good for maintaining a high smooth cadence.

3. not pushing the pedal on a tangent to the circle. That is, the force on the pedal should always be 90-degrees to the crankarm. Don't think of pumping down and pulling up, but rather spinning in circles. When the pedal is at the bottom of the stroke, your foot should actually be moving backwards. Lemond has an analogy saying you should be scraping mud off the bottom of your shoes. Riding one-legged for brief periods (10-15 seconds) will train your brain in the neuro-muscular patterns that's needed to activate the proper muscles in the proper sequences for spinning


Another good exercise is spin-ups when cresting a hill. Rather than shifting up gears, stay in the same low gears and use the acceleration down the hill to spin your legs as fast as possible. Get it up to where you start to bounce and back off and stay spinning. Not hard to get up to 240-250rpms this way. Look up YouTube videos of Lutz Jesslich to see how smooth spinning can be.

Dan The Man 09-19-10 03:01 PM

I think it will just come naturally with time. It feels pretty natural to stick at around 90 for low intensity. I find that if I am going really slow, it might drop to 70. If I put a harder effort, it climbs higher. I think just getting your legs used to riding will help them know what cadence they want to be at.

60 rpm while seated at anything more than a walking pace would feel unnatural. I might climb a few hills at 60, but I feel the excessive strain in my legs when I do that.

ErichM 09-19-10 04:14 PM

These are some good tips. When I got my cadence sensor on my first real road bike about a month ago my cadence was about 70-75 as well. Now 90 feels pretty natural. I just had to force myself to do it at first.

I think my stroke could use some work though, so I'm grateful for the tips presented here.

DannoXYZ 09-19-10 04:32 PM

BTW - there is no "natural" cadence. There's only "comfortable" cadence based upon how smooth you are and the power you are generating. If you practice and are able to spin smoothly at 200rpms, then any cadence below that will feel "natural" and smooth. It's pretty much impossible to generate +1000w and ride fast (30mph+) without learning to spin fast and spin smoothly.

oldbobcat 09-19-10 08:26 PM


Originally Posted by ErichM (Post 11490064)
These are some good tips. When I got my cadence sensor on my first real road bike about a month ago my cadence was about 70-75 as well. Now 90 feels pretty natural. I just had to force myself to do it at first.

I think my stroke could use some work though, so I'm grateful for the tips presented here.

I'm with you. Development of a brisk cadence is a worthwhile goal that will improve your cycling and the health of your legs.

Just keep monitoring, aim for a little improvement every week, and do small-chainring signpost sprints with your buddies.

Raptor1956 09-19-10 08:41 PM

One thing to consider is that the average cadence you think you have may not be your actual average cadence. If I upload the data from my Garmin 705 it may show my average cadence to be about 80 but when I look at the data/graph I see I'm actually a little above 90 but the average is brought down by the interval when you're coasting (not pedaling).


Brian

Creatre 09-19-10 08:45 PM

Cadence drills really helped me, though I never really had a low cadence issue. But, 3 sets of 3 or 5 minute cadences that feel awkward to you per ride once or twice a week, and go from there. I'm actually trying to lower my cadence now, because I got to a point I was averaging 110rpm a ride, which is really too much and was increasing my heart rate too much. :P

thirdgenbird 09-19-10 08:50 PM

get yourself a cheap fixed gear, set it up between 65-70 gear inches and take in on group rides. not only will you learn to spin, but your climbing and form will improve.

crhilton 09-19-10 09:04 PM


Originally Posted by thirdgenbird (Post 11491599)
get yourself a cheap fixed gear, set it up between 65-70 gear inches and take in on group rides. not only will you learn to spin, but your climbing and form will improve.

+1

Although I don't think that's necessary.

thirdgenbird 09-19-10 09:06 PM


Originally Posted by crhilton (Post 11491696)
+1

Although I don't think that's necessary.

necessary? no
effective? yes
fun? yes

slowandsteady 09-19-10 09:12 PM

Um...as much as I love the high tech advice and the advice to drop a few hundred dollars on a special bike....you really only need to just down shift and spin faster. that's all there is to it.

At random intervals on your regular rides spin fast....really fast. Like 110+ or whatever feels like you are about to lose a hip. Do this for as long as you can stand it. Then back down to your normal cadence. Just do this three or four times at most during a ride. then in between try to up the cadence just a smidgen. Faster than what is typical for you, but still comfortable. In a week you will be spinning much faster. I went from 60 to 85-90 this way. It ain't rocket science.

Yes a fixie will help. Yes rollers will help. But it isn't necessary.

thirdgenbird 09-19-10 09:15 PM

he asked for tips, not the bare necessities ;)

you are correct though, interval work does wonders (but everybody needs an excuse to add to the sable)

VA_Esquire 09-19-10 09:48 PM

I ride a fixed gear alot (Felt TK3) on solo rides just b/c its easier for me to keep a pace and helps with my pedal stroke.

mrvile 09-20-10 12:00 AM

To all of those who thing riding fixed will improve your pedal stroke, I have to disagree. A fixed drivetrain actually hides many imperfections in the pedal stroke because the momentum of the wheel will keep the cranks going, whether you're putting power down or not. And when you start to really do work, it gets hard to tell when you're moving the cranks or when the wheel is doing it. So what seems like a smooth pedal stroke on a fixed drivetrain may not be. The only thing riding fixed is good for regarding spin technique is that it will force you to really move your legs once the speed leaves your comfort zone, and you'll know when you start bouncing all over the saddle trying to maintain 35mph @ 75GI.

I personally think that the best way to improve your stroke is to just gear down and spin. Keep your butt still. The rest will come over time.

Dan The Man 09-20-10 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by mrvile (Post 11492341)
To all of those who thing riding fixed will improve your pedal stroke, I have to disagree. A fixed drivetrain actually hides many imperfections in the pedal stroke because the momentum of the wheel will keep the cranks going, whether you're putting power down or not. And when you start to really do work, it gets hard to tell when you're moving the cranks or when the wheel is doing it. So what seems like a smooth pedal stroke on a fixed drivetrain may not be. The only thing riding fixed is good for regarding spin technique is that it will force you to really move your legs once the speed leaves your comfort zone, and you'll know when you start bouncing all over the saddle trying to maintain 35mph @ 75GI.

I personally think that the best way to improve your stroke is to just gear down and spin. Keep your butt still. The rest will come over time.

The only time that the wheel will be moving your cranks is when you stop putting any force on them. You will be aware of this because of the unusual sensation of the pedal pushing on your shoes instead of the other way around. Similarly you will be aware when you are coasting on a freewheel because you hear that clicking noise. During normal riding, there is no difference in how the force is applied.

Accordion 09-20-10 08:28 AM

I actually posted something about this a couple months ago. I found that I was spinning around 60rpm when I bought my Edge 500 with cadence sensor. 90rpm seemed like an impossibility.

One forum member said it wasn't an aerobic thing and to just spin faster and I was kind of ticked off about it. Well he was RIGHT! I just started to push it. 60 was comfortable. 70 was pushing it. So I forced myself out of my comfort zone on every single ride.

So what happened? Last Friday I had my first ever AVERAGE of 100rpm for a 1.5 hour ride. No hills, just underpasses, but that was a record for me. 90rpm is every ride now. No problems. It really does just come with time.

Also, my weight has dropped noticeably since I'm getting a couple hours of serious cardio now that I don't take coasting breaks or spin slowly. Now it's a game. I want to average 110 on just ONE ride. I think it will take a couple months but I can do it. 95-100 just feels so natural now.

Good luck with it. Just push yoursef. I didn't want to but sure am glad I did!

yokotas13 09-20-10 08:33 AM

the quickest way to spinning RELIABLY and SMOOTHLY is a fixed gear bike.
i average 100rpm and top out around 160ish?

up in 4 months from way lower than that

ErichM 09-20-10 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by Accordion (Post 11493264)
I actually posted something about this a couple months ago. I found that I was spinning around 60rpm when I bought my Edge 500 with cadence sensor. 90rpm seemed like an impossibility.

One forum member said it wasn't an aerobic thing and to just spin faster and I was kind of ticked off about it. Well he was RIGHT! I just started to push it. 60 was comfortable. 70 was pushing it. So I forced myself out of my comfort zone on every single ride.

So what happened? Last Friday I had my first ever AVERAGE of 100rpm for a 1.5 hour ride. No hills, just underpasses, but that was a record for me. 90rpm is every ride now. No problems. It really does just come with time.

Also, my weight has dropped noticeably since I'm getting a couple hours of serious cardio now that I don't take coasting breaks or spin slowly. Now it's a game. I want to average 110 on just ONE ride. I think it will take a couple months but I can do it. 95-100 just feels so natural now.

Good luck with it. Just push yoursef. I didn't want to but sure am glad I did!

You got it... I burn a ton of calories every ride. Anyone that thinks bicycling isn't an intense workout is sadly mistaken.

slowandsteady 09-20-10 09:16 AM


Originally Posted by thirdgenbird (Post 11491755)
he asked for tips, not the bare necessities ;)

you are correct though, interval work does wonders (but everybody needs an excuse to add to the sable)


Ah so true. the correct number of bikes and accessories truly is n+1. I just wanted to provide some clarity that it doesn't have to be complicated. An increased cadence is quite acheivable and frankly one of the easier things to improve in cycling.

MichaelW 09-20-10 09:32 AM

Cadence drills are good. Forget about the bike speed, drop to a much lower gear and spin up to a stupid cadence. Your legs will get used to moving quickly.
Make sure your crank length is appropriate for high cadence. You cant use long cranks and spin quickly. "Long" is a relative term and depends on your leg length.

mrvile 09-20-10 10:55 AM


Originally Posted by Dan The Man (Post 11493097)
The only time that the wheel will be moving your cranks is when you stop putting any force on them. You will be aware of this because of the unusual sensation of the pedal pushing on your shoes instead of the other way around. Similarly you will be aware when you are coasting on a freewheel because you hear that clicking noise. During normal riding, there is no difference in how the force is applied.

Right.

One is just more apparent than the other, especially when you start sweating.

echappist 09-20-10 11:55 AM


Originally Posted by mwchandler21 (Post 11488826)
I recently got a cadence censor and found that my cadence was around 60. I have been trying to up it and have got it to where I'm now averaging around 75. I have done this mostly by lowering my gearing any time I start to see my cadence slip, but find 90 to feel unnatural right now. Is there any other tips on how to build my cadence up closer to the magical 90?

rollers will help with the overall pedalstroke as it improves your form, but it may not help as much with increaseing your rpm

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ (Post 11489700)

Another good exercise is spin-ups when cresting a hill. Rather than shifting up gears, stay in the same low gears and use the acceleration down the hill to spin your legs as fast as possible. Get it up to where you start to bounce and back off and stay spinning. Not hard to get up to 240-250rpms this way. Look up YouTube videos of Lutz Jesslich to see how smooth spinning can be.

+1, although much better to actually shift down when you crest the hill. here's what i do when i find my cadence a bit low. FWIW, i never got it up to 240, but i can get to 190 & hold it for 15 seconds pretty easily


find a slight downhill, shift into 39x25 or whatever your lowest gear is, get in the drops. as you approach the start of the downhill section, start spinning very fast for 20 seconds. most of this work will be purely anaerobic. you'll know you're getting somewhere when you can spin at 150rpm. recover for a few minutes and have another go at it. do this three times per ride, 3-4 times a week. you should find you'll be spinning a lot faster


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