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aagghh, fitting bike to long legs

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aagghh, fitting bike to long legs

Old 09-25-10, 09:57 PM
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aagghh, fitting bike to long legs

I have fairly long legs. Am 6'3". Inseam in socks to a book in my crotch is 97.8cm (38.5 inches). I currently ride a 64cm bike, my BB to seat height is 86.36cm/34 inches with 7/175mm inch crank.

Top tube on this bike is 610mm, and i have a 110 stem on it. Most fit calculators i get numbers into put me on a top tube around 56cm. I have test ridden some 59 to 61cm bikes. It does feel a bit more comfortable to have my elbows more bent versus stretched waaay out, but obviously after 1000+ miles on my current bike, i have gotten used to where i am.

The problem with my height is that i get MAAAAJOR seat/bar drop because i am maxing out seat posts to get my legs in the right position, leaving me the option of a really tall stem or uncomfortable drop. Should i size up to accommodate my legs, or size down to accommodate my top tube?

I much prefer the riding geometry of the smaller frames, much less sluggish, feels tighter/more responsive. Im not looking for bars/seat even. I am comfortable with 2-3" drop, but there is enough to worry about with geometry without these proportions.

Basically what it boils down to, is i am comfortable on a shorter top tube, but these usually come with shorter head tubes as well. 'Race' geo bikes seem to have these shorter tubes, but obviously shorter head tubes.

Aagghh, what a conundrum

FWIW, my bike is currently set up for cross ( a tad more upright, 16* up stem) and i have 10cm/4" drop, so i will ride with about 1.5cm more drop when set up for road 8* stem

Last edited by adam_mac84; 09-25-10 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 09-25-10, 10:03 PM
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Always accommodate the top tube first. It's much less adjustable than the seat tube. I have a similar problem, though I"m only 5'4'', in that I have a very classic female long legs/short torso geometry. Since I'm at the extreme (31.8 inseam for my height), I always have to get a smaller frame to fit the top and then jack up my seat. I would make peace with the riser stem, just make sure it's not too short or else handling will severely suffer.
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Old 09-25-10, 10:06 PM
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When fitting people with short torsos I'll typically size them down and have them run some spacers and/or a stem flipped up, then encourage them to work on their flexibility; when I can I try to get people in your situation on a bike with a longer head tube. The issue here really is that no one wants to run a stack of spacers and an upright stem, so the question becomes, are you going to be a slave to fashion or ride a set up that is comfortable for you? I am in your same shoes, I am 5'10.5" with the inseam of a person who is 6'1", I run a 54cm frame with quite a bit of stack under the stem and I still maintain a pretty aggressive position on the bike. Would I love to slam my stem, sure, but would I enjoy riding it, no. My advice for you is to start looking at geometry charts of different bikes and see what kind of frames will cater to your riding/budget needs and give you a lot of head tube.
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Old 09-25-10, 10:24 PM
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So is it safe to say that a smaller 'endurance' bike with a similar wheelbase to a larger 'race bike' (endurance having taller head tube which id need) woud have similar steering responsiveness. or does the 1-2* angle difference in seat/steerer angles throw that out the window?

haha, never thought of myself as a 'short torso' since i can't fit into a regular size L shirt because it's above my belt line, and 2 inches to short in the arms haha
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Old 09-25-10, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by fauxto nick
When fitting people with short torsos I'll typically size them down and have them run some spacers and/or a stem flipped up, then encourage them to work on their flexibility; when I can I try to get people in your situation on a bike with a longer head tube. The issue here really is that no one wants to run a stack of spacers and an upright stem, so the question becomes, are you going to be a slave to fashion or ride a set up that is comfortable for you? I am in your same shoes, I am 5'10.5" with the inseam of a person who is 6'1", I run a 54cm frame with quite a bit of stack under the stem and I still maintain a pretty aggressive position on the bike. Would I love to slam my stem, sure, but would I enjoy riding it, no. My advice for you is to start looking at geometry charts of different bikes and see what kind of frames will cater to your riding/budget needs and give you a lot of head tube.
Are you a fitter at an LBS? Perhaps you could help me out with my dilemma. I have similar proportions as you and I'm currently looking for a new frame and can't decide between a 54 or 56.

I'm 5'10" with a 34-34.5" cycling inseam. Currently I ride a 56 Tarmac with a 90cm stem. I have the stem set to -6*(?) (its an adjustable specialized) and with all the spacers in place I have a 9cm saddle to bar drop measuring from the top of the saddle to the top of the bars. If I went to a 54cm Tarmac (I'm looking at an sl2 or sl3) my saddle to bar drop with spacers in place would be ~11cm assuming I keep the stem "flipped". It seems 11cm would be way too much for me and I would be forced to run the stem the other way around (fred stem).

Admittedly my current setup isn't really working too well for me and I rarely ride in the drops unless I'm taking my turn at a pull (part of the problem is my knees run into my chest). I'm thinking on my new build I get a pair of compact/shallow drop bars and this should help.

Any wisdom? Do you think a 54 is the best compromise? I may have to retract my bid on the 56 sl2 from ebay :/
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Old 09-26-10, 05:09 AM
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I also have the same measurements. I ride a 56cm relaxed fit Synapse. The 54 was good but didn't 'feel' right compared to the 56. "To each his own" I guess...

I was complaining to my fitter about hand numbness and neck issues, as well as knees into the chest. When he put on an adjustable stem and raised the bars real high I was pissed for him making me look like a dork - but it worked. As I get more fit I lower the stem more and play with seat tilt to make the fit more aggressive.

And no one has told me I look like a dork with the bars raised. I get more comments from my daughter about the biking shorts!
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Old 09-26-10, 05:27 AM
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Someone's gotta say it. Thought about fitting your legs to your bike yet?

I can relate to fitting a bike to 'strange' leg length. My legs are somewhat short and I've been modifying my fit for about two years now. Getting close, but still not there yet. Two fittings by different 'specialist' lead me to even more pain. In the end, apparently, I should just have started the fitting myself.
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Old 09-26-10, 05:36 PM
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I wouldn't call myself a "fitter" but I am in the process of learning the craft, it is harder than most people would think to evaluate a rider and give them the optimal fit. As far as which direction to go for those of you that asked, you always need to go for a fit that finds the most optimal balance between the motor's efficiency and the drivers comfort. Frankly your stem might look Fredish flipped up, but what looks even more Fredish is not being able to stay in the drops and having your performance suffer because you're generally uncomfortable on the bike. The best thing you can do is spend extra time trying bikes, play with fits and go with what's comfortable, you can help your situation by spending time doing yoga and lower back/abdominal strengthening at the gym. If you're one of those people that doesn't just sit on a bike and fit naturally then you need to act accordingly and understand you might have to make some compromises other riders won't have to. Here is a photo of my fit for example, I could maybe drop one, max two spacers comfortably right now but that would be pushing it. This isn't the best angle but when I get in the drops my back is about level.



So I can't tell you guys definitively if you should size down or up, you need to go out and try the different bikes and the different fits. My advice is find a good shop that is willing to help you with your situation and find a good fitter. Try the different bike and see which handle better for you and go from there.
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Old 09-26-10, 05:39 PM
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Consider custom geometry if you have the coin.

I have the same bicycle inseam as you but am "only" 6 feet 1/2 inch....no stock frame can fit.

PM me for details if interested.
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Old 09-26-10, 05:42 PM
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I'd second a custom geo, that would be the best situation for you.
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Old 09-26-10, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by fauxto nick
I'd second a custom geo, that would be the best situation for you.
Worked for Herb.
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Old 09-26-10, 07:47 PM
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Thanks for the responses all!!!! I have a day off tuesday and I am going to try to find a shop that will fit me and get me some measurements printed out so that i can continue on my shopping and find a bike that fits my needs. Its crazy, because the 59-61cm bikes feel really good, except for the huge (up to 6") seat/bar drop. I am not an unflexible person, but that's pretty extreme... that puts my drops crazy low.

think it's worth getting a 'pro fit' and translating those measurements to whatever bikes i testride/purchase
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Old 09-27-10, 07:58 AM
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If excessive reach is an issue, I advise two things - short reach bars and Campy or SRAM brake/shifters that both have a shorter reach than the current Shimano offerings.

Quite often, the difference in reach between two frames sizes is 5-15mm. The short reach bars will reduce the reach by 10mm and the shorter reach brake hoods will be 5-10mm shorter. That can make it possible to use the larger frame that better fits your leg length.

Most brands now offers frames with 20-30mm taller head tubes than their raciest models. Try one of those, rather than the top of the line racing frame with the shorter head tube.

A 10cm drop is not huge for a rider of your size. I'm only 5'-6.5" tall and use 11cm of drop.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 09-27-10 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 09-27-10, 08:05 AM
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You're only an inch (2.54cm) taller than me, but your saddle height is almost a full 10cm higher. First off, you really need at least 180mm cranks. Second, you have to be careful with many of the stupid stock geometries these days. Your seat tube angle should be no steeper than 72.5 for you to get proper setback because clearly most of your height is in the legs.
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Old 09-27-10, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by teterider
You're only an inch (2.54cm) taller than me, but your saddle height is almost a full 10cm higher. First off, you really need at least 180mm cranks. Second, you have to be careful with many of the stupid stock geometries these days. Your seat tube angle should be no steeper than 72.5 for you to get proper setback because clearly most of your height is in the legs.
That doen't make sense to me. While I support the idea of using plenty of setback to balance the rider over the saddle, the longer the torso, the greater the setback that should be required to achieve that balance.

Are you assuming that KOP is the "proper setback" and the long legs mean long femurs? Quite often, people with really long legs have a great deal of the extra length from the knee down.

Even with a steep 74.5 degree STA, I have the tip of my saddle 6-7cm behind the center of the BB. If I raised my saddle height by 13cm to 86cm, then it would be another 3.5cm further back.

A 72.5 degree STA would put the saddle another 3cm back, or in the 12.5-13.5cm range.

I've never seen a large road frame with a STA steeper than 73.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 09-27-10 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 09-27-10, 08:46 AM
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Dave - you're right, I did write that implying "you should" instead of "look into" which is what I meant. KOP is a complete myth as we all know and totally irrelevant as a standard, and we weren't given any information to make a judgement on setback. However, the OP is not looking at large frames since he stated he really needs a shorter top tube. I've found that when a fit calculation ends up with that sort of top tube length, given his height, it can be to compensate for a very large saddle setback.

I'll say this whether or not is helps the OP or another reader. I'm 6'2" and used to ride larger frames without great success. Once my large saddle setback was finally diagnosed, it was realized that I simply couldn't reach the bars from way back there comfortably unless I used the stubbiest of stems. One of the best things that ever happened in my cycling career was when, back when I rode Cannondales, I moved down to a 56cm frame. Yes I needed to have the stem flipped up due to the shorter headtube, but otherwise the fit and comfort was superb. Cannondale has since altered geometries so this is no longer true and I'd need a 58 c-dale, but the premise remains.

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Old 09-27-10, 04:33 PM
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Well, i am going tomorrow morning (have the day off) to get a 2d fitting (measurements taken from the side). I am very confident in this fitter, and they understand that i am looking for recommendations on geometries so that i can move forward finding a bike that fits me better. Like i said, my bike now is OK, but if i am going to look for a road specific bike, i want this one to be good and close before i start tweaking
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Old 09-27-10, 05:06 PM
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I want to show you my custom bike that would probably fit you:



I know, flip it and the dorky upgoing stem is silly.

I have dropped the stem by 4 spacers (2cm) since this pic was taken and will likely be able to go to a conventional stem.

The bike should have a longer headtube than its 210mm but that would have severely limited my choice in forks.

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Old 09-27-10, 05:51 PM
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Bump for my pic above, iJen was kind enough to clue me in on posting 101.
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Old 09-27-10, 07:46 PM
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^ How tall all you?! At least Herb's Habanero has a normal seat tube length and stem angle.
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Old 09-27-10, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight
^ How tall all you?! At least Herb's Habanero has a normal seat tube length and stem angle.
UK. I am "only" a smidge over 6 feet (maybe 6ft 0.5 inch) but have a 38.5 inch cycling inseam. All legs, short torso. Only custom can fit me properly, sadly.
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Old 09-27-10, 08:01 PM
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I'm going to leave it at this, a proper fit has nothing to do with how a bike looks in many cases. Until you have the rider on the bike, on a trainer and a goniometer and plumb line in your hand, it's all speculation.
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Old 09-27-10, 08:10 PM
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I'm glad I registered here guys, this info is great.
I'm fairly new to cycling and am running an old Cannondale. It is the right sized frame for me as I am almost 6'3" but the original owner had a far different geometry than I do.
I rode it a few times with his settings, then started making adjustments based upon what hurt the most.
I've decided to switch out the original drops for bullhorns and an adjustable quill stem to get the bars up a bit higher and closer (I obviously don't have his arm length!) to the seat by 20-50mm. I even had to scoot the seat a bit forward because I kept feeling like I was riding on the very tip of the seat. It wasn't good. That could obviously change w/ the new stem height/angle.
Anyway, not trying to hijak but is there a "generic" sizing chart available online to use as a reference? I'm trying to sort out all of these different measurements and I casn see why a professional fitter could help. Even just learning the correct terms would be helpful.
+++

BTW, is there an option to use longer forks? The overall geometry would certainly change, but I'm guessing it is not a good way to do it.

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Old 09-27-10, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas
UK. I am "only" a smidge over 6 feet (maybe 6ft 0.5 inch) but have a 38.5 inch cycling inseam. All legs, short torso. Only custom can fit me properly, sadly.
Wow. I feel better.
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Old 09-28-10, 06:31 PM
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Well, I got my bike fitting today. I have measurements that should be translatable to nearly any bike, and actually found out that I fit nearly perfectly on a 61cm Sectour/Roubaix frame with all spacers and -6* stem. On my 64cm bike, it would take something like a 90mm stem and some short reach bars to really bring the reach back.

The measurements that I have that can get me set up closely on most bikes:

Saddle Height, center of BB to crotch of saddle - 85.5cm
Saddle tip to BB (setback) - 11.5cm
Reach (tip of saddle to handlebar) - 59cm
Drop 10cm
Cranks 175
155mm saddle

Also got some recommendations on the bike i currently ride (Cross bike) to get it more appropriate (handlebars/stem etc).

I was really wanting to get onto a racier frame, but the fact that i'm runnin 10cm of drop on a bike like a Secteur with a 245mm head tube, means something even shorter (racier) will really have me dropping down. I am also able to run the stem flipped down on this taller 245mm head tube. Shorter head tubes, i can run the stem flipped up and get very close to this same fit... it has been encouraging!!!!!
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