Bike fit confusion
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Bike fit confusion
So here I am deciding & debating on which size to get.
Here are the measurements,
Inseam 85 cm
Trunk 59.5 cm
Forearm 31.5 cm
Arm 64.5 cm
Thigh 56.1 cm
Lower Leg 55.1 cm
Sternal Notch 144 cm
Total Body Height 178.8 cm
I've been fit a couple of times but I've been recommended a "52, 53, 55" from three different fitters.
Does this seem wrong or does my body geo seem a bit weird.
I was currently riding a Calfee 54 virtual tt w/ a 100stem + 3t ergonova to shorten the reach and still felt too stretched out. I can't go to a fitter right now because no bike at the moment and I have a choice between a 51cm Parlee and a 54.5cm Parlee and if it's somethign in between, I'll go searching in the market again.
Always liked a feeling of a smaller frame for it's advantages yet does anyone know what a rough estimate would sound like ?
51 too small for me w/ at least a 120stem ?
Here's the geo.
virtual tt length 52.5
st c-c 45
head angle 73
st angle 74
tt slope 1.1
standover 74.4
ht - 10.6-12.6
& for a 54
tt 54.5
head angle 72
st angle 73.6
virtual st 55.7
HT 158
Here are the measurements,
Inseam 85 cm
Trunk 59.5 cm
Forearm 31.5 cm
Arm 64.5 cm
Thigh 56.1 cm
Lower Leg 55.1 cm
Sternal Notch 144 cm
Total Body Height 178.8 cm
I've been fit a couple of times but I've been recommended a "52, 53, 55" from three different fitters.
Does this seem wrong or does my body geo seem a bit weird.
I was currently riding a Calfee 54 virtual tt w/ a 100stem + 3t ergonova to shorten the reach and still felt too stretched out. I can't go to a fitter right now because no bike at the moment and I have a choice between a 51cm Parlee and a 54.5cm Parlee and if it's somethign in between, I'll go searching in the market again.
Always liked a feeling of a smaller frame for it's advantages yet does anyone know what a rough estimate would sound like ?
51 too small for me w/ at least a 120stem ?
Here's the geo.
virtual tt length 52.5
st c-c 45
head angle 73
st angle 74
tt slope 1.1
standover 74.4
ht - 10.6-12.6
& for a 54
tt 54.5
head angle 72
st angle 73.6
virtual st 55.7
HT 158
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada
Posts: 1,430
Bikes: 2010 S1, 2011 F75X
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Every frame fits different. My cross bike is a 58 and my road bike is a 56. Both fit me equally well for the riding I do on each bike.
You can look at numbers and measurements till you're blue in the face, but the only way you'll know for sure is if you actually visit a shop and get a fitting during the purchase.
Good luck.
You can look at numbers and measurements till you're blue in the face, but the only way you'll know for sure is if you actually visit a shop and get a fitting during the purchase.
Good luck.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,964
Bikes: Habanero Titanium Team Nuevo
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times
in
120 Posts
I would say 55 at your 5'10" but you can change set up. I have an 89cm inseam and ride equally well on a 59 and 61 frame. They are similar geo but and measurements are same in the cockpit. I am slightly more stretched out on the 61. Both seats are equal from the ground distance.
#4
Senior Member
Size numbers are meaningless and really can't be compared between brands. The absolute best dimensions to go by are reach and stack values, but only a few brands are publishing that info, including Cervelo, Trek, C'dale and LOOK (just recently).
If those values are not available, I go by the TT length and the STA, that work together to define the reach, plus the head tube length, with the headset. If the frame in question has a BB drop that differs much from the nearly standard 7cm, then that affects the head tube length comparison.
As far as your body dimensions, I see nothing unusual. You are 10cm taller than I am, with only 2cm more cycling inseam, so you're sort of average. I have long legs and a short torso.
With an 83cm cycling inseam and 73cm saddle height, I look for a head tube in the 120-130mm range, if the frame as an integrated headset that's no more than 15mm in minimum height.
You can interpolate from my saddle height, adding head tube length to match additional saddle height. I use a saddle to bar drop in the 9-11cm range with either 84 or 73 degree stems. The 84 is used to produce the 9cm drop and the 73 will produce the 11cm drop, with a head tube and headset that total 145mm.
If those values are not available, I go by the TT length and the STA, that work together to define the reach, plus the head tube length, with the headset. If the frame in question has a BB drop that differs much from the nearly standard 7cm, then that affects the head tube length comparison.
As far as your body dimensions, I see nothing unusual. You are 10cm taller than I am, with only 2cm more cycling inseam, so you're sort of average. I have long legs and a short torso.
With an 83cm cycling inseam and 73cm saddle height, I look for a head tube in the 120-130mm range, if the frame as an integrated headset that's no more than 15mm in minimum height.
You can interpolate from my saddle height, adding head tube length to match additional saddle height. I use a saddle to bar drop in the 9-11cm range with either 84 or 73 degree stems. The 84 is used to produce the 9cm drop and the 73 will produce the 11cm drop, with a head tube and headset that total 145mm.
#6
Senior Member
Post your actual saddle height. If it's around 75cm, to go with that 85cm cycling inseam, then it would be a 53cm in something like a LOOK 585/586. The 55cm would be on the large side, but those wanting a more upright position might choose it. Since my saddle height is only 73cm, I ride a 51cm.
https://www.lookcycle.com/media/catal...ry_2011_34.pdf
https://www.lookcycle.com/media/catal...ry_2011_34.pdf
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Your measurements are very similar to mine. Odd question: do you have a tall head/neck combo?
A quick, height-based guess for me would put me on a 56cm frame (which I'm currently riding), but I'm thinking of moving to a smaller frame. My guess is that since a smaller proportion of me is "body" (because I have a tall neck and head), I should ride a smaller frame than someone of my height with average height neck and head.
I've got an 80mm stem on my 56cm frame now and still feel like I am a bit stretched out. I also would like a bit more drop, but can't get it - the stem is as low as possible.
If you feel stretched out on what you have now, you're going to have to go to an even shorter stem w/ the 54cm frame because it has .5cm longer TT than your current frame. The 51cm w/ a 120mm stem would be roughly 1cm less reach than what you have now. The only problem w/ the 51cm might be the ST. You'll have a lot of seat post showing if your saddle height is similar to mine: ~74cm.
A quick, height-based guess for me would put me on a 56cm frame (which I'm currently riding), but I'm thinking of moving to a smaller frame. My guess is that since a smaller proportion of me is "body" (because I have a tall neck and head), I should ride a smaller frame than someone of my height with average height neck and head.
I've got an 80mm stem on my 56cm frame now and still feel like I am a bit stretched out. I also would like a bit more drop, but can't get it - the stem is as low as possible.
If you feel stretched out on what you have now, you're going to have to go to an even shorter stem w/ the 54cm frame because it has .5cm longer TT than your current frame. The 51cm w/ a 120mm stem would be roughly 1cm less reach than what you have now. The only problem w/ the 51cm might be the ST. You'll have a lot of seat post showing if your saddle height is similar to mine: ~74cm.
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Big head, yes ! tall neck, yes. At times with a normal attire, it seems that if my torso + legs are almost the same length & my jackets (size small/medium) seems to comes down to my thighs.
I can't imagine having a 90 stem but 80? Geez. Props on descents !
This was my last Calfee geo
TT length/ST angle/set back/chainstay length/stand over/b.b./HT angle/HT length/wheel base
54.8 / 73.5 / 15.3 / 41.5 / 79 / 7 / 73 / 12.8 / 98.0
I had a thomson seatpost on my last bike ( 0 setback ) and it ended right off where the "N" on "Thomson" was so this showed me that maybe the bike was a bit too big
( Wasn't compact geo btw)
I can't imagine having a 90 stem but 80? Geez. Props on descents !
This was my last Calfee geo
TT length/ST angle/set back/chainstay length/stand over/b.b./HT angle/HT length/wheel base
54.8 / 73.5 / 15.3 / 41.5 / 79 / 7 / 73 / 12.8 / 98.0
I had a thomson seatpost on my last bike ( 0 setback ) and it ended right off where the "N" on "Thomson" was so this showed me that maybe the bike was a bit too big
( Wasn't compact geo btw)
Last edited by f/64; 12-01-10 at 03:56 PM.
#10
Senior Member
The only thing odd about the Calfee setup is the zero setback post. Too little saddle setback, based on KOP, is a common mistake.
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
By the way, the fitters set up the saddle ( almost jamming to the front ) so that it can compensate the TT which was a horrible idea as it'd affect my fore/aft
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Big head, yes ! tall neck, yes. At times with a normal attire, it seems that if my torso + legs are almost the same length & my jackets (size small/medium) seems to comes down to my thighs.
I can't imagine having a 90 stem but 80? Geez. Props on descents !
This was my last Calfee geo
TT length/ST angle/set back/chainstay length/stand over/b.b./HT angle/HT length/wheel base
54.8 / 73.5 / 15.3 / 41.5 / 79 / 7 / 73 / 12.8 / 98.0
I had a thomson seatpost on my last bike ( 0 setback ) and it ended right off where the "N" on "Thomson" was so this showed me that maybe the bike was a bit too big
( Wasn't compact geo btw)
I can't imagine having a 90 stem but 80? Geez. Props on descents !
This was my last Calfee geo
TT length/ST angle/set back/chainstay length/stand over/b.b./HT angle/HT length/wheel base
54.8 / 73.5 / 15.3 / 41.5 / 79 / 7 / 73 / 12.8 / 98.0
I had a thomson seatpost on my last bike ( 0 setback ) and it ended right off where the "N" on "Thomson" was so this showed me that maybe the bike was a bit too big
( Wasn't compact geo btw)
Are you happy with the saddle to bar drop you've got on the Calfee? Is it keeping you from getting a more aggressive position (if you want it)?
Based on your comment about feeling stretched out, I think the 51cm would work - especially so if you feel like your current frame size is keeping you from a more aggressive position. You might need a 400mm seat post, but might be able to get by with a 350mm. I don't know how much usable length is typical for each of those lengths.
I'm not a fit expert, but I've done a lot of research and am trying to figure out what the best frame size is for myself.
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Flexibility = palms flat to the floor and going in the drops on the Calfee feels like I'm on levers yet so stretched out. I did a 60 mile ride a couple of weeks ago and my neck / shoulder / lower back has never been so sore & fatigue.
Anyone know a good fitter in the Los Angeles area ?
Anyone know a good fitter in the Los Angeles area ?
#14
Senior Member
That was a horrible idea. Your torso isn't short, but perhaps your arms are, but regardless, the solution is shorter reach bars first, then a shorter stem.
#15
Senior Member
You won't need a 400mm post with a 51cm frame, but the saddle to bar drop would be in the 9-10cm range, without resorting to a lot of spacers or a high rise stem. I used a 350mm post with my 51cm frame and usually cut quite a bit off.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Flexibility = palms flat to the floor and going in the drops on the Calfee feels like I'm on levers yet so stretched out. I did a 60 mile ride a couple of weeks ago and my neck / shoulder / lower back has never been so sore & fatigue.
Anyone know a good fitter in the Los Angeles area ?
Anyone know a good fitter in the Los Angeles area ?
I wasn't sure since the ST is only 45cm. Was thinking a 350mm post might be close to the min insert given that ST length and his saddle height.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 192
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
oh man, i feel the OP's pain. i'm looking at buying a Wilier frame this week sight unseen (new) and trying to decipher what the deal with measurements is, is doing my head in! i have only ridden steel frames so my current two bikes are both 56cm, with the carlton being a trues 56tt/56st and the GIOS being a 55tt/56st with longer stem. so as far as Wilier is concerned, i feel i should be getting the Large, which seems crazy to me and i feel very much a medium kinda person, but i'm just on 6foot with lanky-ish legs so i guess it's right! its just so hard to bite the bullet on these things! good luck amongst the confusing numbers!
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I totally know what you mean. Indecisiveness = I just lost to an offer of a Parlee Z3SL w/ an Edge 1.0 fork / 3t Ltd post / Token headset for 2250 !
Now I have the other deal that's a normal Z3 that's a 51..
Oh boy.
Now I have the other deal that's a normal Z3 that's a 51..
Oh boy.
#19
Senior Member
Once you understand a few things about the numbers, making a comparison with an old frame is not difficult. You need the TT length, the STA and the handlebar height (vertically from the ground to the top of the bars). From that info, you can determine the frame reach and work from the bar height to get a modern method of achieving that same height.
The ST length does not affect the fit, so it can be ignored. Those with short legs and long toros might need to pay attention to standover height.
If you're lucky and both frames have the same STA, then you can just compare the TT lengths and get a relatively close comparison of the reach. If one frame has a steeper STA, add 1cm per degree to it's TT length before making the comparison.
I can interpolate from my own setup, what it takes to get the bars to just about any height you need. As an example, a 145mm total length of head tube, headset and spacers with the lowest 73 degree stem will put the top of the bars 85.5cm above the floor. If I'm figuring the bar height for a much larger frame, I know that 95% of the additional head tube length will go to increasing the vertical height of the bars. An 84 degree stem will raise the bars about 2cm, compared to a 73. Flipping the 84 degree stem to 96 will raise the bars another 2cm.
The ST length does not affect the fit, so it can be ignored. Those with short legs and long toros might need to pay attention to standover height.
If you're lucky and both frames have the same STA, then you can just compare the TT lengths and get a relatively close comparison of the reach. If one frame has a steeper STA, add 1cm per degree to it's TT length before making the comparison.
I can interpolate from my own setup, what it takes to get the bars to just about any height you need. As an example, a 145mm total length of head tube, headset and spacers with the lowest 73 degree stem will put the top of the bars 85.5cm above the floor. If I'm figuring the bar height for a much larger frame, I know that 95% of the additional head tube length will go to increasing the vertical height of the bars. An 84 degree stem will raise the bars about 2cm, compared to a 73. Flipping the 84 degree stem to 96 will raise the bars another 2cm.