Why do drivers want unfriendly Freds?
#1
Portland Fred
Thread Starter
Why do drivers want unfriendly Freds?
This year, it seems like I've been encountering more boneheads than normal that turn their brights on me than in the past. I don't think their intent is to blind me, rather it doesn't occur to them that the same thing that blinds everyone else has the same effect on me.
I'm normally pretty mellow with motorists -- I only use 5 fingered waves and don't respond to provocation. But I'm a little harder on idiots. Anyone who turns their brights on me gets the HID aimed directly in their eyes. This method has yielded 100% compliance in dimming lights.
I don't like doing crap like that, but I hit enough stuff when I'm not blinded and there is a lot of debris on the road. Anyone else notice increases in cluelessness?
I'm normally pretty mellow with motorists -- I only use 5 fingered waves and don't respond to provocation. But I'm a little harder on idiots. Anyone who turns their brights on me gets the HID aimed directly in their eyes. This method has yielded 100% compliance in dimming lights.
I don't like doing crap like that, but I hit enough stuff when I'm not blinded and there is a lot of debris on the road. Anyone else notice increases in cluelessness?
#2
Typical Scum
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Floyds Knobs, IN
Posts: 326
Bikes: 2010 CAAD 9-5 | 2009 Giant Anthem X2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Makes sense to me. Turning the HID on them should be akin to flashing the headlights at them - a sort of headlight check. I'm assuming they're turning on the brights to: make sure you know they see you, be sure they are seeing all the riders/obstacles around.
#3
Faster but still slow
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 5,978
Bikes: Trek 830 circa 1993 and a Fuji WSD Finest 1.0 2006
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I have done this myself as a driver. If I turn on my high beams it is because I cannot tell what the object is. I turn on the brights so that I can see. If you find this happening a lot, I suggest you find a way to be more visible.
#4
Scarlet Knight
#5
Senior Member
Incorrect, its clearly not a problem of visibility. The driver obviously see the cyclist's headlight, which is why said driver is turning on the high beams in the first place. The fact that the driver can see a headlight coming at them should be a clue that there is a person behind the headlight, even if they are unsure if its a ped, cyclist, motorcycle or whatever. Its rude and stupid. If you are driving and unsure about an oncoming headlight, you should slow down rather than attempt to blind the person behind the headlight.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 8,549
Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Record);Cinelli Xperience (Force);Specialized Allez (Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Centaur); Colnago AC-R Disc;Colnago V1r Limited Edition;De Rosa King 3 Limited(Force 22);DeRosa Merak(Red):Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Hydro(Di2)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Liked 260 Times
in
139 Posts
I alway ride with the notion that no one can see me and act accordingly.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Medina, OH
Posts: 5,806
Bikes: confidential infromation that I don't even share with my wife
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
When I used to run I would run into the traffic on the left side of the road. When someone would turn on their high beams I would shield my eyes with one hand and give then the "I can't see where I'm going stagger", which usually got their attention.
#8
Faster but still slow
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 5,978
Bikes: Trek 830 circa 1993 and a Fuji WSD Finest 1.0 2006
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Incorrect, its clearly not a problem of visibility. The driver obviously see the cyclist's headlight, which is why said driver is turning on the high beams in the first place. The fact that the driver can see a headlight coming at them should be a clue that there is a person behind the headlight, even if they are unsure if its a ped, cyclist, motorcycle or whatever. Its rude and stupid. If you are driving and unsure about an oncoming headlight, you should slow down rather than attempt to blind the person behind the headlight.
Sorry but you are incorrect. Yes, the person likely sees something...the headlight and wonders "what the heck is that?" Is it a motor cycle? Is it a car with broken headlights? Is it a person with a bright flashlight? Let me turn on my highbeams to help me determine what that light is attached to so I don't hit it. It is a reasonable response. If the high beams are too bright for your eyes, look towards the ground or the right side of the road exactly as you would do if you were in a car.
Slowing down isn't enough to ensure you don't hit something. You need to be able to see and determine the width of an object to avoid a collision. The only way to do this is to have sufficient lighting.
#9
Banned.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This year, it seems like I've been encountering more boneheads than normal that turn their brights on me than in the past. I don't think their intent is to blind me, rather it doesn't occur to them that the same thing that blinds everyone else has the same effect on me.
I'm normally pretty mellow with motorists -- I only use 5 fingered waves and don't respond to provocation. But I'm a little harder on idiots. Anyone who turns their brights on me gets the HID aimed directly in their eyes. This method has yielded 100% compliance in dimming lights.
I don't like doing crap like that, but I hit enough stuff when I'm not blinded and there is a lot of debris on the road. Anyone else notice increases in cluelessness?
I'm normally pretty mellow with motorists -- I only use 5 fingered waves and don't respond to provocation. But I'm a little harder on idiots. Anyone who turns their brights on me gets the HID aimed directly in their eyes. This method has yielded 100% compliance in dimming lights.
I don't like doing crap like that, but I hit enough stuff when I'm not blinded and there is a lot of debris on the road. Anyone else notice increases in cluelessness?
#10
Senior Member
Sorry but you are incorrect. Yes, the person likely sees something...the headlight and wonders "what the heck is that?" Is it a motor cycle? Is it a car with broken headlights? Is it a person with a bright flashlight? Let me turn on my highbeams to help me determine what that light is attached to so I don't hit it. It is a reasonable response. If the high beams are too bright for your eyes, look towards the ground or the right side of the road exactly as you would do if you were in a car.
Slowing down isn't enough to ensure you don't hit something. You need to be able to see and determine the width of an object to avoid a collision. The only way to do this is to have sufficient lighting.
Slowing down isn't enough to ensure you don't hit something. You need to be able to see and determine the width of an object to avoid a collision. The only way to do this is to have sufficient lighting.
There is a contingent of idiot drivers around here who are either so utterly stupid or absurdly arrogant that they drive with their brights on constantly...don't bother to dim them for cyclists, peds, cars, or anything else.
#11
Senior Member
Sorry but you are incorrect. Yes, the person likely sees something...the headlight and wonders "what the heck is that?" Is it a motor cycle? Is it a car with broken headlights? Is it a person with a bright flashlight? Let me turn on my highbeams to help me determine what that light is attached to so I don't hit it. It is a reasonable response. If the high beams are too bright for your eyes, look towards the ground or the right side of the road exactly as you would do if you were in a car.
Slowing down isn't enough to ensure you don't hit something. You need to be able to see and determine the width of an object to avoid a collision. The only way to do this is to have sufficient lighting.
Slowing down isn't enough to ensure you don't hit something. You need to be able to see and determine the width of an object to avoid a collision. The only way to do this is to have sufficient lighting.
__________________
Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace
1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
1988 Ducati 750 F1
Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace
1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
1988 Ducati 750 F1
#12
Portland Fred
Thread Starter
Lights are properly aimed. Even with HID, it needs to be aimed pretty much right down in front or I see nothing. These aren't flashes like they do with cars where they just blink them on and off. They just stay on until I do something.
#13
Faster but still slow
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 5,978
Bikes: Trek 830 circa 1993 and a Fuji WSD Finest 1.0 2006
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Incorrect. It is rude and dangerous to shine your brights at oncoming traffic, period. Thats why you have a dim setting. Slowing down IS the more reasonable response. Having the headlights set on dim is enough light if you are driving a reasonable speed. A driver who is dumb enough not to realize that oncoming traffic should be approached with dims shouldn't be driving at night.
There is a contingent of idiot drivers around here who are either so utterly stupid or absurdly arrogant that they drive with their brights on constantly...don't bother to dim them for cyclists, peds, cars, or anything else.
There is a contingent of idiot drivers around here who are either so utterly stupid or absurdly arrogant that they drive with their brights on constantly...don't bother to dim them for cyclists, peds, cars, or anything else.
slowing down should be done...but it is not enough. What difference does it make if the drive slams into at 30 mph or 40 mph? wouldn't you just rather they actually SEE you to avoid you than just slow down a bit? How about both slow down, AND attempt to determine what is in the roadway in an attempt to not hit you?
How is it idiotic to turn on your highbeams momentarily to determine what is in the roadway? Why assume that the motorist is being a jackass? How about assume that if this is happening to you a lot that maybe, just maybe people cannot see you very well?
#14
Headset-press carrier
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Corrales New Mexico
Posts: 2,137
Bikes: Kona with Campy 8, Lynskey Ti with Rival, Bianchi pista, Raleigh Team Frame with SRAM Red, Specialized Stump Jumper, Surley Big Dummy
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I rarely use my brights even in dark country roads. Yeah rude and clueless
#15
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upland Ca
Posts: 19,896
Bikes: Lemond Chambery/Cannondale R-900/Trek 8000 MTB/Burley Duet tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#16
Portland Fred
Thread Starter
But so far, everyone cooperates when I aim the HID at them. That thing is effin' painful.
#17
Steel Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,480
Bikes: N + 1
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I flash brights some times to get a clearer idea of an unexpected object ahead (usually turns out to be a strange mailbox configuration, an animal, trash on the side of the road & the occasional DUI-style cyclist....I suppose any of which could potentially create some safety risk?). I could imagine doing so if I saw a bike but did not recognize it as such. In my case, some of my cars seem to have a pretty large difference in range of vision between low & high beam. That's certainly my own problem, but just being honest here that sometimes a distant object that raises a question gets a quick flash of brights if I'm driving a certain car. You could argue, however that I'm looking too far ahead if I'm having this issue. Don't know if this has anything to do with what the OP is experiencing, but fwiw, i would not see a quick flash of the brights as inherently rude or clueless....though, it could be

#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#19
Portland Fred
Thread Starter
I frequently get told how visible I am -- often by total strangers who know me as "that guy" they see on the roads. They approach me in stores because they recognize my jacket, and they ask about my lights because they are so bright. I have yet to encounter a cyclist who I think is better lit than me (I would refuse to ride with at least 95% of the lighting setups I see).
#20
Portland Fred
Thread Starter
That's certainly my own problem, but just being honest here that sometimes a distant object that raises a question gets a quick flash of brights if I'm driving a certain car. You could argue, however that I'm looking too far ahead if I'm having this issue. Don't know if this has anything to do with what the OP is experiencing, but fwiw, i would not see a quick flash of the brights as inherently rude or clueless....though, it could be 

#21
Senior Member
slowing down should be done...but it is not enough. What difference does it make if the drive slams into at 30 mph or 40 mph? wouldn't you just rather they actually SEE you to avoid you than just slow down a bit? How about both slow down, AND attempt to determine what is in the roadway in an attempt to not hit you?
How is it idiotic to turn on your highbeams momentarily to determine what is in the roadway? Why assume that the motorist is being a jackass? How about assume that if this is happening to you a lot that maybe, just maybe people cannot see you very well?
How is it idiotic to turn on your highbeams momentarily to determine what is in the roadway? Why assume that the motorist is being a jackass? How about assume that if this is happening to you a lot that maybe, just maybe people cannot see you very well?
If you are driving so fast that you need your brights to recognize what is in front of you before its too late, THEN YOU ARE DRIVING TOO FAST. Weren't you taught in drivers ed not to overdrive your own headlights?
Last edited by mihlbach; 12-08-10 at 02:38 PM.
#22
still climbing
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 279
Bikes: vintage steel bikes
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I frequently get told how visible I am -- often by total strangers who know me as "that guy" they see on the roads. They approach me in stores because they recognize my jacket, and they ask about my lights because they are so bright. I have yet to encounter a cyclist who I think is better lit than me (I would refuse to ride with at least 95% of the lighting setups I see).
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,693
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Brights should be a special circumstances only feature, especially the ridiculous blinding white ones on so many new cars. People want to be able to drive exactly the same in the dark as they do in daylight, which is dumb.
#24
Portland Fred
Thread Starter
Primary lights are NR Rage (13W HID) with universal taillight. I like reflective bands as well as markings on my clothing since they convey movement and show my shape. You can buy brighter now than you could at the time I was in the market, but I don't see people using them in the dark. The Dinotte tail lights are brighter, but the only people I see using them in my little corner run them in the day.
I've experimented with different configurations, and I find that aside from being bright, you want to communicate you are a cyclist. You don't want to just add light -- I find motorists have an easier time recognizing me as a cyclist if I just have one good light in the front on the bars and one in the back either mounted on the seatpost or the back of the rack.
If you get too many lights or get crazy with reflective stuff, you are project/reflect more light, but it takes people a little longer to figure out you're a cyclist. I used to run dual lights in front and back (backup headlight is 20W halogen and I have a spare NR universal taillight plus I keep a few PB superflashes lying around) which I found helped me see a little better, but it was actually more confusing for the drivers.
I've experimented with different configurations, and I find that aside from being bright, you want to communicate you are a cyclist. You don't want to just add light -- I find motorists have an easier time recognizing me as a cyclist if I just have one good light in the front on the bars and one in the back either mounted on the seatpost or the back of the rack.
If you get too many lights or get crazy with reflective stuff, you are project/reflect more light, but it takes people a little longer to figure out you're a cyclist. I used to run dual lights in front and back (backup headlight is 20W halogen and I have a spare NR universal taillight plus I keep a few PB superflashes lying around) which I found helped me see a little better, but it was actually more confusing for the drivers.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 259
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
BannerJek, I used to get the same exact thing with reflective on upper-body only - but once I started putting those reflective velcro bands around my ankles, not once been flashed with high beams. Also put rear light on my helmet so that drivers see an illuminated torso +flash, instead of just a pinpoint of light. It is exactly as slowandstead is pointing out. You could be a pedestrian with a flashlight for all they know (and therefore have little vulnerability to being blinded, ya know, simply walking.) Oh and our lights look nothing like motorcycle headlights with their reflectors, housings etc.
mihlbach, I envy the world you live in, you seem to not have to deal with stupid people
Stupid drivers are not a myth (and exist in roughly the same proportion as stupid cyclists btw)
"Brightly lit" does not equal communication of direction, speed, mode, nor "human being"
mihlbach, I envy the world you live in, you seem to not have to deal with stupid people

"Brightly lit" does not equal communication of direction, speed, mode, nor "human being"