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Why do drivers want unfriendly Freds?

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Why do drivers want unfriendly Freds?

Old 12-08-10, 12:54 PM
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banerjek
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Why do drivers want unfriendly Freds?

This year, it seems like I've been encountering more boneheads than normal that turn their brights on me than in the past. I don't think their intent is to blind me, rather it doesn't occur to them that the same thing that blinds everyone else has the same effect on me.

I'm normally pretty mellow with motorists -- I only use 5 fingered waves and don't respond to provocation. But I'm a little harder on idiots. Anyone who turns their brights on me gets the HID aimed directly in their eyes. This method has yielded 100% compliance in dimming lights.

I don't like doing crap like that, but I hit enough stuff when I'm not blinded and there is a lot of debris on the road. Anyone else notice increases in cluelessness?
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Old 12-08-10, 12:57 PM
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Makes sense to me. Turning the HID on them should be akin to flashing the headlights at them - a sort of headlight check. I'm assuming they're turning on the brights to: make sure you know they see you, be sure they are seeing all the riders/obstacles around.
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Old 12-08-10, 12:59 PM
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I have done this myself as a driver. If I turn on my high beams it is because I cannot tell what the object is. I turn on the brights so that I can see. If you find this happening a lot, I suggest you find a way to be more visible.
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Old 12-08-10, 01:02 PM
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Old 12-08-10, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
I have done this myself as a driver. If I turn on my high beams it is because I cannot tell what the object is. I turn on the brights so that I can see. If you find this happening a lot, I suggest you find a way to be more visible.

Incorrect, its clearly not a problem of visibility. The driver obviously see the cyclist's headlight, which is why said driver is turning on the high beams in the first place. The fact that the driver can see a headlight coming at them should be a clue that there is a person behind the headlight, even if they are unsure if its a ped, cyclist, motorcycle or whatever. Its rude and stupid. If you are driving and unsure about an oncoming headlight, you should slow down rather than attempt to blind the person behind the headlight.
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Old 12-08-10, 01:20 PM
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I alway ride with the notion that no one can see me and act accordingly.
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Old 12-08-10, 01:26 PM
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When I used to run I would run into the traffic on the left side of the road. When someone would turn on their high beams I would shield my eyes with one hand and give then the "I can't see where I'm going stagger", which usually got their attention.
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Old 12-08-10, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
Incorrect, its clearly not a problem of visibility. The driver obviously see the cyclist's headlight, which is why said driver is turning on the high beams in the first place. The fact that the driver can see a headlight coming at them should be a clue that there is a person behind the headlight, even if they are unsure if its a ped, cyclist, motorcycle or whatever. Its rude and stupid. If you are driving and unsure about an oncoming headlight, you should slow down rather than attempt to blind the person behind the headlight.

Sorry but you are incorrect. Yes, the person likely sees something...the headlight and wonders "what the heck is that?" Is it a motor cycle? Is it a car with broken headlights? Is it a person with a bright flashlight? Let me turn on my highbeams to help me determine what that light is attached to so I don't hit it. It is a reasonable response. If the high beams are too bright for your eyes, look towards the ground or the right side of the road exactly as you would do if you were in a car.

Slowing down isn't enough to ensure you don't hit something. You need to be able to see and determine the width of an object to avoid a collision. The only way to do this is to have sufficient lighting.
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Old 12-08-10, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
This year, it seems like I've been encountering more boneheads than normal that turn their brights on me than in the past. I don't think their intent is to blind me, rather it doesn't occur to them that the same thing that blinds everyone else has the same effect on me.

I'm normally pretty mellow with motorists -- I only use 5 fingered waves and don't respond to provocation. But I'm a little harder on idiots. Anyone who turns their brights on me gets the HID aimed directly in their eyes. This method has yielded 100% compliance in dimming lights.

I don't like doing crap like that, but I hit enough stuff when I'm not blinded and there is a lot of debris on the road. Anyone else notice increases in cluelessness?
Have you checked that your lights are not pointing up and to the left? It might be possible that they are simply "flashing the brights" to let you know that.
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Old 12-08-10, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
Sorry but you are incorrect. Yes, the person likely sees something...the headlight and wonders "what the heck is that?" Is it a motor cycle? Is it a car with broken headlights? Is it a person with a bright flashlight? Let me turn on my highbeams to help me determine what that light is attached to so I don't hit it. It is a reasonable response. If the high beams are too bright for your eyes, look towards the ground or the right side of the road exactly as you would do if you were in a car.

Slowing down isn't enough to ensure you don't hit something. You need to be able to see and determine the width of an object to avoid a collision. The only way to do this is to have sufficient lighting.
Incorrect. It is rude and dangerous to shine your brights at oncoming traffic, period. Thats why you have a dim setting. Slowing down IS the more reasonable response. Having the headlights set on dim is enough light if you are driving a reasonable speed. A driver who is dumb enough not to realize that oncoming traffic should be approached with dims shouldn't be driving at night.

There is a contingent of idiot drivers around here who are either so utterly stupid or absurdly arrogant that they drive with their brights on constantly...don't bother to dim them for cyclists, peds, cars, or anything else.
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Old 12-08-10, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
Sorry but you are incorrect. Yes, the person likely sees something...the headlight and wonders "what the heck is that?" Is it a motor cycle? Is it a car with broken headlights? Is it a person with a bright flashlight? Let me turn on my highbeams to help me determine what that light is attached to so I don't hit it. It is a reasonable response. If the high beams are too bright for your eyes, look towards the ground or the right side of the road exactly as you would do if you were in a car.

Slowing down isn't enough to ensure you don't hit something. You need to be able to see and determine the width of an object to avoid a collision. The only way to do this is to have sufficient lighting.
Heaven forbid they should just slow down rather than blast their brights and avoid blinding the person they know is behind the light.
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Old 12-08-10, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
I have done this myself as a driver. If I turn on my high beams it is because I cannot tell what the object is. I turn on the brights so that I can see. If you find this happening a lot, I suggest you find a way to be more visible.
Visibility isn't an issue. Both front and rear lights are actually painful to people if misaligned and are clearly visible for miles. Plus my gear is reflective. Road reports from drivers are consistently that I'm extremely visible. I'd be dead if I did otherwise as almost all of my winter riding is on 2 lane highways in the dark.

Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
Have you checked that your lights are not pointing up and to the left? It might be possible that they are simply "flashing the brights" to let you know that.
Lights are properly aimed. Even with HID, it needs to be aimed pretty much right down in front or I see nothing. These aren't flashes like they do with cars where they just blink them on and off. They just stay on until I do something.
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Old 12-08-10, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
Incorrect. It is rude and dangerous to shine your brights at oncoming traffic, period. Thats why you have a dim setting. Slowing down IS the more reasonable response. Having the headlights set on dim is enough light if you are driving a reasonable speed. A driver who is dumb enough not to realize that oncoming traffic should be approached with dims shouldn't be driving at night.

There is a contingent of idiot drivers around here who are either so utterly stupid or absurdly arrogant that they drive with their brights on constantly...don't bother to dim them for cyclists, peds, cars, or anything else.

slowing down should be done...but it is not enough. What difference does it make if the drive slams into at 30 mph or 40 mph? wouldn't you just rather they actually SEE you to avoid you than just slow down a bit? How about both slow down, AND attempt to determine what is in the roadway in an attempt to not hit you?

How is it idiotic to turn on your highbeams momentarily to determine what is in the roadway? Why assume that the motorist is being a jackass? How about assume that if this is happening to you a lot that maybe, just maybe people cannot see you very well?
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Old 12-08-10, 01:50 PM
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I rarely use my brights even in dark country roads. Yeah rude and clueless
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Old 12-08-10, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
but I hit enough stuff when I'm not blinded and there is a lot of debris on the road. Anyone else notice increases in cluelessness?
Driver cluelessness?
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Old 12-08-10, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
There is a contingent of idiot drivers around here who are either so utterly stupid or absurdly arrogant that they drive with their brights on constantly...don't bother to dim them for cyclists, peds, cars, or anything else.
I've met people who do this. From what I can tell, it doesn't occur to them that others can't see. All they know is that they see better.

But so far, everyone cooperates when I aim the HID at them. That thing is effin' painful.
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Old 12-08-10, 02:06 PM
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I flash brights some times to get a clearer idea of an unexpected object ahead (usually turns out to be a strange mailbox configuration, an animal, trash on the side of the road & the occasional DUI-style cyclist....I suppose any of which could potentially create some safety risk?). I could imagine doing so if I saw a bike but did not recognize it as such. In my case, some of my cars seem to have a pretty large difference in range of vision between low & high beam. That's certainly my own problem, but just being honest here that sometimes a distant object that raises a question gets a quick flash of brights if I'm driving a certain car. You could argue, however that I'm looking too far ahead if I'm having this issue. Don't know if this has anything to do with what the OP is experiencing, but fwiw, i would not see a quick flash of the brights as inherently rude or clueless....though, it could be
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Old 12-08-10, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tagaproject6 View Post
I always ride with the notion that no one can see me and act accordingly.
I follow this method as well. Better to expect nothing and be pleased with any help along the way as you go.
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Old 12-08-10, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
How about assume that if this is happening to you a lot that maybe, just maybe people cannot see you very well?
I frequently get told how visible I am -- often by total strangers who know me as "that guy" they see on the roads. They approach me in stores because they recognize my jacket, and they ask about my lights because they are so bright. I have yet to encounter a cyclist who I think is better lit than me (I would refuse to ride with at least 95% of the lighting setups I see).
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Old 12-08-10, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by fiataccompli View Post
That's certainly my own problem, but just being honest here that sometimes a distant object that raises a question gets a quick flash of brights if I'm driving a certain car. You could argue, however that I'm looking too far ahead if I'm having this issue. Don't know if this has anything to do with what the OP is experiencing, but fwiw, i would not see a quick flash of the brights as inherently rude or clueless....though, it could be
Different issue entirely. I see that all the time, but it makes sense and if they dim at a reasonable distance or only have them on for a bit, there's no problem. There are many things along the side of the road, animals, etc. that they would logically want to see.
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Old 12-08-10, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady View Post
slowing down should be done...but it is not enough. What difference does it make if the drive slams into at 30 mph or 40 mph? wouldn't you just rather they actually SEE you to avoid you than just slow down a bit? How about both slow down, AND attempt to determine what is in the roadway in an attempt to not hit you?

How is it idiotic to turn on your highbeams momentarily to determine what is in the roadway? Why assume that the motorist is being a jackass? How about assume that if this is happening to you a lot that maybe, just maybe people cannot see you very well?
Duh, the cyclist is behind the headlight. Of course the driver can't see the cyclist...the driver sees the cyclist's headlight. Likewise, the cylist only sees the car's headlights, not the car or driver. There is obviously someone behind the headlights who requires their vision to navigate. You seem to have the same lack of understanding that drivers who drive around with their brights on constantly apparently suffer from. By shining your brights, you are increasing your own ability to see, but interfering with the ability of the pilot of the oncoming object to see, thus endagering the oncoming object, and possibly further endangering yourself in the process.
If you are driving so fast that you need your brights to recognize what is in front of you before its too late, THEN YOU ARE DRIVING TOO FAST. Weren't you taught in drivers ed not to overdrive your own headlights?

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Old 12-08-10, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
I frequently get told how visible I am -- often by total strangers who know me as "that guy" they see on the roads. They approach me in stores because they recognize my jacket, and they ask about my lights because they are so bright. I have yet to encounter a cyclist who I think is better lit than me (I would refuse to ride with at least 95% of the lighting setups I see).
just curious about what lights are you using?
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Old 12-08-10, 04:11 PM
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Brights should be a special circumstances only feature, especially the ridiculous blinding white ones on so many new cars. People want to be able to drive exactly the same in the dark as they do in daylight, which is dumb.
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Old 12-08-10, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Oostal View Post
just curious about what lights are you using?
Primary lights are NR Rage (13W HID) with universal taillight. I like reflective bands as well as markings on my clothing since they convey movement and show my shape. You can buy brighter now than you could at the time I was in the market, but I don't see people using them in the dark. The Dinotte tail lights are brighter, but the only people I see using them in my little corner run them in the day.

I've experimented with different configurations, and I find that aside from being bright, you want to communicate you are a cyclist. You don't want to just add light -- I find motorists have an easier time recognizing me as a cyclist if I just have one good light in the front on the bars and one in the back either mounted on the seatpost or the back of the rack.

If you get too many lights or get crazy with reflective stuff, you are project/reflect more light, but it takes people a little longer to figure out you're a cyclist. I used to run dual lights in front and back (backup headlight is 20W halogen and I have a spare NR universal taillight plus I keep a few PB superflashes lying around) which I found helped me see a little better, but it was actually more confusing for the drivers.
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Old 12-09-10, 11:30 AM
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BannerJek, I used to get the same exact thing with reflective on upper-body only - but once I started putting those reflective velcro bands around my ankles, not once been flashed with high beams. Also put rear light on my helmet so that drivers see an illuminated torso +flash, instead of just a pinpoint of light. It is exactly as slowandstead is pointing out. You could be a pedestrian with a flashlight for all they know (and therefore have little vulnerability to being blinded, ya know, simply walking.) Oh and our lights look nothing like motorcycle headlights with their reflectors, housings etc.

mihlbach, I envy the world you live in, you seem to not have to deal with stupid people Stupid drivers are not a myth (and exist in roughly the same proportion as stupid cyclists btw)

"Brightly lit" does not equal communication of direction, speed, mode, nor "human being"
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