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"F" it...I NEED a carbon bike!

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"F" it...I NEED a carbon bike!

Old 02-11-11, 11:41 PM
  #201  
lazerzxr
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Save a little more and do what I did, get the most orgasmic frame ever built!

20101119164810430img_0774.jpg
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Old 02-12-11, 12:55 AM
  #202  
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Originally Posted by lazerzxr View Post
Save a little more and do what I did, get the most orgasmic frame ever built!

Attachment 189658
Very nice!

Please post ride report when you get it built-up.

Edit: But is it really a "high end" frame?

Last edited by nacler22; 02-12-11 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 02-12-11, 07:34 AM
  #203  
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Originally Posted by blackdays View Post
uh, 120lbs.

Get it right, tubs.
touche....
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Old 02-12-11, 04:09 PM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by gbg View Post
That is what I think these boutique bike builders are like. They can charge more for snob appeal, but that is about it.
Their R&D can't compete with Cannondale, Trek, Specialized and probably even Scott. If you want to pay twice as much for half the bike go to the boutique builders instead of a high end major brand.
This point will never be addressed. Wait and see.
This forum will always the he-man Trek haters club, no matter what.
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Old 02-12-11, 04:50 PM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by TnBama View Post
This point will never be addressed. Wait and see.
This forum will always the he-man Trek haters club, no matter what.
What in God's name are you trying to say.
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Old 02-12-11, 05:35 PM
  #206  
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Originally Posted by surgeonstone View Post
What in God's name are you trying to say.
People on this board often don't want a Trek or Cannondale. Why? They don't want the average joe to think they are riding a Walmart bike. They have even stated as much on this thread. So- some will spend top dollar for a Colnago or some boutique builder custom, and get half the bike. Even though Trek may spend more on R&D than Colnago clears in a year, even though Trek is a hell of a bike representing the most advanced design, materials and manufacturing in the world.
Clear?

In the interest of full disclosure- i should add that i currently ride a steel Serotta. However my dream bike right now is a Project One Madone

Last edited by TnBama; 02-12-11 at 07:01 PM. Reason: complete disclosure
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Old 02-12-11, 05:39 PM
  #207  
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...or some people just don;t want to have the exact same thing as everyone else. A Honda Accord is all the car anyone really needs yet there are tons of Porsche, Ferrari and Mercedes owners out there.
Is it better? Maybe. Do we all want to wear black pants and a blue shirt everyday forever?
My .02$...
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Old 02-12-11, 05:52 PM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by Chris R. View Post
...or some people just don;t want to have the exact same thing as everyone else. A Honda Accord is all the car anyone really needs yet there are tons of Porsche, Ferrari and Mercedes owners out there.
Is it better? Maybe. Do we all want to wear black pants and a blue shirt everyday forever?
My .02$...
Not a good comparison. A Porsche, Ferrari and Mercedes outperforms a Honda (maybe not in gas mileage), but in every performance metric. They could with justification say a Honda doesn't measure up.
The bike snobs say their bikes are WAAAAAYYY better than the big name brands when obviously they are not. The newest 6 series TREK SSl "has to be built" in the US of A since the
carbon fiber they are using is so advanced it cannot be legally shipped out of the country.
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Old 02-12-11, 07:05 PM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by TnBama View Post
People on this board often don't want a Trek or Cannondale. Why? They don't want the average joe to think they are riding a Walmart bike. They have even stated as much on this thread. So- some will spend top dollar for a Colnago or some boutique builder custom, and get half the bike. Even though Trek may spend more on R&D than Colnago clears in a year, even though Trek is a hell of a bike representing the most advanced design, materials and manufacturing in the world.
Clear?
The reason I didnt buy Trek (and I did test ride a few) is because their geometry doesnt fit me very well. Their bikes tend to have a long reach and their semi integrated seat post doesnt quite go high enough to allow me to ride the smaller frame. they have lots of different frame size options but I couldn't quite get happy on any of them. Cannondale just dont do it for me - I dont need any more justification than that. I already own a spesh so didnt want another.

I went for the colnago because their frame reach is slightly less than other brands for the same size frame, they fit me well. I like the looks of lugged carbon and I dont mind paying a little more for something I like. If their frames did nothing for me I wouldnt buy one and I'm not that interested in their history.

The colnago EPS is very well regarded by everyone who has aver ridden one. The C59 is likely to be every bit as good, if not better. When I tested a Madone 6.9, I appreciated that it was a very nice bike but the only thing It had that the C59 doesnt is a built in sensor in the chain stay - something that may or may not be available for replacement in 5 or 6 years time. Also the madone just felt less solid, didnt look as tough and had that typical generic carbon frame appearence.

Dont get me wrong, the Madone is an excellent bike, but im my eyes was trumped by the C59 in every way. I understand that others may feel differently but I cant understand how all that Trek R&D only managed to fit a built in sensor which doent work with all computers and I dont want anyway. I am also at a loss as to why you would suggest that the Colnago is only half the bike that the Trek is. I can only imagine that you have been taken in by all the marketing and talk about R&D. their R&D in my opinion would have been better spent surveying the populations body sizes so that they realized not everyone has Lance's proportions. Then their frames would have been measured around the people they are intended to fit.

not meant to cause argument, just my opinion having really looked into the bikes and made up my own mind without reading all the advertising.
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Old 02-12-11, 07:10 PM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by TnBama View Post
Clear?
I must say I would have no problem riding a Madone.
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Old 02-12-11, 07:17 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by TnBama View Post
People on this board often don't want a Trek or Cannondale. Why? They don't want the average joe to think they are riding a Walmart bike. They have even stated as much on this thread. So- some will spend top dollar for a Colnago or some boutique builder custom, and get half the bike. Even though Trek may spend more on R&D than Colnago clears in a year, even though Trek is a hell of a bike representing the most advanced design, materials and manufacturing in the world.
Clear?

In the interest of full disclosure- i should add that i currently ride a steel Serotta. However my dream bike right now is a Project One Madone
I have A 2011 Madone SSL and a 2009 Colnago EPS. The Colnago is NOT half the bike the Madone is. It is, in fact, a better bike in all measures except for weight. This is IMO, of coarse.

Edit: cost aside. I did spend less on the colnago however.

Last edited by nacler22; 02-12-11 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 02-12-11, 07:26 PM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by lazerzxr View Post
The reason I didnt buy Trek (and I did test ride a few) is because their geometry doesnt fit me very well. Their bikes tend to have a long reach and their semi integrated seat post doesnt quite go high enough to allow me to ride the smaller frame. they have lots of different frame size options but I couldn't quite get happy on any of them. Cannondale just dont do it for me - I dont need any more justification than that. I already own a spesh so didnt want another.

I went for the colnago because their frame reach is slightly less than other brands for the same size frame, they fit me well. I like the looks of lugged carbon and I dont mind paying a little more for something I like. If their frames did nothing for me I wouldnt buy one and I'm not that interested in their history.

The colnago EPS is very well regarded by everyone who has aver ridden one. The C59 is likely to be every bit as good, if not better. When I tested a Madone 6.9, I appreciated that it was a very nice bike but the only thing It had that the C59 doesnt is a built in sensor in the chain stay - something that may or may not be available for replacement in 5 or 6 years time. Also the madone just felt less solid, didnt look as tough and had that typical generic carbon frame appearence.

Dont get me wrong, the Madone is an excellent bike, but im my eyes was trumped by the C59 in every way. I understand that others may feel differently but I cant understand how all that Trek R&D only managed to fit a built in sensor which doent work with all computers and I dont want anyway. I am also at a loss as to why you would suggest that the Colnago is only half the bike that the Trek is. I can only imagine that you have been taken in by all the marketing and talk about R&D. their R&D in my opinion would have been better spent surveying the populations body sizes so that they realized not everyone has Lance's proportions. Then their frames would have been measured around the people they are intended to fit.

not meant to cause argument, just my opinion having really looked into the bikes and made up my own mind without reading all the advertising.
Very well stated. Again, please post a report when you have it "running". I would very much like hear your feedback on the C59. The one in The Washingmachinepost was interesting, but somewhat cryptic.

I may have to have one so that I can be the uber bf posuer.
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Old 02-12-11, 07:43 PM
  #213  
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I bought a Colnago because I wanted something fun, fast, stiff and different. I totally love it. I also own and race a 2009 Specialized Tarmac Pro which is also a stellar bike. The feel of the colnago (it's a CX1) is just better. Weight is almost identical. Is it the placebo effect? Maybe...but it's a feel and not a performance thing.
I've done way more mileage on the colnago than the tarmac...the tarmac was supposed to be my race bike but the cx1 saw way, way more races.
This year that will change due to a new team and the shop selling specialized...so no colnago racing.
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Old 02-12-11, 08:02 PM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by nacler22 View Post
I have A 2011 Madone SSL and a 2009 Colnago EPS. The Colnago is NOT half the bike the Madone is. It is, in fact, a better bike in all measures except for weight. This is IMO, of coarse.

Edit: cost aside. I did spend less on the colnago however.
I am glad you put IMO. Interesting you say the Colnago is better in every way "except weight".
The ONE parameter that is easily measured and "not subjective" and funny how the TREK is better.
I bet if you looked at all the parameters stiffness, strength, compliance, etc things that need special instruments to measure the Colnago
would not be better either. And the TREK does this while weighing less.
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Old 02-12-11, 08:27 PM
  #215  
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BF, in a nutshell
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Old 02-12-11, 08:30 PM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by gbg View Post
I am glad you put IMO. Interesting you say the Colnago is better in every way "except weight".
The ONE parameter that is easily measured and "not subjective" and funny how the TREK is better.
I bet if you looked at all the parameters stiffness, strength, compliance, etc things that need special instruments to measure the Colnago would not be better either. And the TREK does this while weighing less.
I bet you it would be.
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Old 02-12-11, 08:33 PM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by gbg View Post
I am glad you put IMO. Interesting you say the Colnago is better in every way "except weight".
The ONE parameter that is easily measured and "not subjective" and funny how the TREK is better.
I bet if you looked at all the parameters stiffness, strength, compliance, etc things that need special instruments to measure the Colnago
would not be better either. And the TREK does this while weighing less.
I rode the Trek today and yesterday, the Colnago pretty much the the previous 7-10 days. I do this fairly often (switch em up), on all kinds of training rides, for the last 2 months.

My take on the bikes:
Trek is lighter
Colnago is stiffer
Colnago is as compliant, if not more so.
Colnago seems to hold speed better.
Colnago seems to transfer power better.
Colnago is more "connected" to the ground.
Colnago decends better.
I climb better(faster) on the Colnago, even though it weights 1 lbs. more.
I just plain go faster on the Colnago.

That said, I am not slamming the Madone. It is a great bike and for what it's worth, may well be under the TDF winner this year. The Colnago just works for me better. I have tried really hard to be objective when I compare the two, and the Colnago is the bike I plan to race this year because of the metrics, such as the are, I listed above.

Got to go make dinner now, the water is boiling over.

Edit: forgot to add that the Colnago has a "snap" to it that the Madone lacks. I like the SNAP!!!

Last edited by nacler22; 02-12-11 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 02-12-11, 09:32 PM
  #218  
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before blowing your wad on a new bike

ride that caad-9 and lose some more weight then u will have a whole new appreciation for that caad-9
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Old 02-12-11, 09:46 PM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by crhilton View Post
Shut up and ride? I think you're taking #41 trolling too seriously. This entire subforum is about trolling.

Incidentally, I think it's a reasonable suggestion for the OP. Sometimes when I want to buy new ****, instead I ride the **** I have and then think "nah, this stuff works fine."
now this guy makes sense
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Old 02-12-11, 09:50 PM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by 2ndGen View Post
Okay.

A) Give me "your" bike to ride in this weather.

B) Go do some more research on me and you'll find that I've been lusting for plastic for a while.
(Come better prepared next time sport).

D) Keep ass u me eng. Actually, I never thought that the CAAD9 was the best aluminum frame (Argon and Spooky
along with BMC where manufacturers that I thought made better aluminum frames, albeit at a much higher pricepoint).

C) Have a great day and go make love to yourself!




(Like that Jen? )
facepalm
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Old 02-12-11, 11:28 PM
  #221  
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If my only biking goal was only to do as well as possible in races....

I'd probably get a Specialized, Trek, Scott, or Cannondale. They've arguably got the dough to spend on some serous R&D toward that end.

But as with lots of things in life, one of the great joys of picking out your own bike is finding that one that just feels right for you. That could be because it's lighter, stiffer, the paint job, the brand name, the cute sales girl, whatever. For some, that bike might be one of the above. They're all great bikes.

For me, it's my De Rosa.

For the OP, it'll be whatever he finally decides on. As as has been pointed out several times already, all the frames at this pricepoint make great bikes. Half the fun is figuring out what to get.

OP, whatever you get, I hope you ride the hell out of it, and that every mile is pure satisfaction.
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Old 02-13-11, 03:22 AM
  #222  
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Originally Posted by gbg View Post
I am glad you put IMO. Interesting you say the Colnago is better in every way "except weight".
The ONE parameter that is easily measured and "not subjective" and funny how the TREK is better.
I bet if you looked at all the parameters stiffness, strength, compliance, etc things that need special instruments to measure the Colnago
would not be better either. And the TREK does this while weighing less.
Again I have no idea why you would make that bet. Both makes rely on finite element analysis to determine the design stresses and make their top frames by hand with great care to ensure the design is realised exactly as intended. Both makes use top quality "spare no expense" High Modulus carbon fibre and take pride in producing what they consider to be the best possible frame they can.

Saying one make has "better stiffness" means you have to define better. The fact is that both makes produce their bikes with a target stiffness that they believe is adequate and trade that against weight and strength. Your post shows that you believe Trek to be so superior that they can produce not only a lighter frame, but also a stronger and stiffer one - thats a big call when you consider the design tools, the materials and the quality control is all very similar between the two companies.

It is quite possible that I prefer the ride of a Colnago because Colnago's idea of an appropriate ballance between weight stiffness and strength closely matches my expectations. As i said earlier, the Colnago felt pleasingly solid and I would gladly put 100g of extra carbon in a frame to achieve that feeling.

Edit:
Well done Colnago for not getting sucked in to the weight marketing foolishness and focusing on what really matters.

Last edited by lazerzxr; 02-13-11 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 02-13-11, 05:32 AM
  #223  
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Believe it or not, for all the "I don't want a Trek because I see them all over the place..." guys, that is the ultimate in conformity. Why? Because "if" a person wanted a Trek, but allowed the wide ownership of others to affect their buying reason is just as unreasonable as someone saying they refuse to buy a bike made in Asia.

That is "if" not owning a Trek because they are so popular is the reason you won't consider one. But hey, if that's how you choose to make your purchases, more power to you.

I haven't heard of many Trek Haters who actually owned/extensively ridden a Trek.
The more certain types of people hate on it, the more I keep it at the top of my list!



I am not in anyway "not" considering Italian makers or British or German or even Asian makers. I just know for a fact that Trek makes some of the best bikes around and for those models they had issues with, they addressed them with character. And that's what I want from a manufacturer that I'm going to spend this much money with.


Last edited by 2ndGen; 02-13-11 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 02-13-11, 05:56 AM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by nacler22 View Post
I rode the Trek today and yesterday, the Colnago pretty much the the previous 7-10 days. I do this fairly often (switch em up), on all kinds of training rides, for the last 2 months.

My take on the bikes:
Trek is lighter
Colnago is stiffer
Colnago is as compliant, if not more so.
Colnago seems to hold speed better.
Colnago seems to transfer power better.
Colnago is more "connected" to the ground.
Colnago decends better.
I climb better(faster) on the Colnago, even though it weights 1 lbs. more.
I just plain go faster on the Colnago.

That said, I am not slamming the Madone. It is a great bike and for what it's worth, may well be under the TDF winner this year. The Colnago just works for me better. I have tried really hard to be objective when I compare the two, and the Colnago is the bike I plan to race this year because of the metrics, such as the are, I listed above.

Got to go make dinner now, the water is boiling over.

Edit: forgot to add that the Colnago has a "snap" to it that the Madone lacks. I like the SNAP!!!
That's an excellent review and is exactly the type of feedback I'm looking for. Thank you very much.

(BTW: I love Colnagos as well and it is on my "test" list).
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Old 02-13-11, 06:04 AM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by rusted_rider View Post
before blowing your wad on a new bike

ride that caad-9 and lose some more weight then u will have a whole new appreciation for that caad-9
Would you say that a person's weight determines how good a bike feels and that if I lost weight, then my entry-level CAAD would feel as good as a high quality Carbon frame on long rides, that it would provide the same ride qualities & benefits that a Carbon bike does?

BTW...I appreciate & love my CAAD at any weight/size on any day/condition.




Originally Posted by nacler22 View Post
Very well stated. Again, please post a report when you have it "running". I would very much like hear your feedback on the C59.
+1




Originally Posted by foresthill View Post
If my only biking goal was only to do as well as possible in races....

I'd probably get a Specialized, Trek, Scott, or Cannondale. They've arguably got the dough to spend on some serous R&D toward that end.

But as with lots of things in life, one of the great joys of picking out your own bike is finding that one that just feels right for you. That could be because it's lighter, stiffer, the paint job, the brand name, the cute sales girl, whatever. For some, that bike might be one of the above. They're all great bikes.

For me, it's my De Rosa.

For the OP, it'll be whatever he finally decides on. As as has been pointed out several times already, all the frames at this pricepoint make great bikes. Half the fun is figuring out what to get.

OP, whatever you get, I hope you ride the hell out of it, and that every mile is pure satisfaction.
Thanks.


Originally Posted by lazerzxr View Post
Again I have no idea why you would make that bet. Both makes rely on finite element analysis to determine the design stresses and make their top frames by hand with great care to ensure the design is realised exactly as intended. Both makes use top quality "spare no expense" High Modulus carbon fibre and take pride in producing what they consider to be the best possible frame they can.

Saying one make has "better stiffness" means you have to define better. The fact is that both makes produce their bikes with a target stiffness that they believe is adequate and trade that against weight and strength. Your post shows that you believe Trek to be so superior that they can produce not only a lighter frame, but also a stronger and stiffer one - thats a big call when you consider the design tools, the materials and the quality control is all very similar between the two companies.

It is quite possible that I prefer the ride of a Colnago because Colnago's idea of an appropriate ballance between weight stiffness and strength closely matches my expectations. As i said earlier, the Colnago felt pleasingly solid and I would gladly put 100g of extra carbon in a frame to achieve that feeling.

Edit:
Well done Colnago for not getting sucked in to the weight marketing foolishness and focusing on what really matters.
Agreed. I also strongly believe in "balance" being more important than any one aspect or trait of a bike. A good weight (<20lb IMO), a compliant ride over the roads that I ride, enough stiffness to make efficient use of the work that I put into it, a strong build...those are the things I'm looking for. What I might consider perfect might not be for someone who had different needs. So, I take everything into consideration.

[Nice to see so many reasonable responses.
I thought this thread would end up in the crapper,
but it is being redeemed by some pretty good posts here. ]

Last edited by 2ndGen; 02-13-11 at 06:48 AM.
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