greenstork

So I just got back from my LBS, having acquired a nice new NiteRider Digital Evolution headlight. I wish I could say it was a good purchasing experience, but I am left with a few issues, let me start from the beginning.

I went in to the LBS about three weeks ago, in search of a nice bike light. Their selection was fairly limited but he was able to show me this Digital Evolution. I was originally thinking I wanted something more powerful but after some thought over the next few weeks, I really couldn't justify the cost.

After leaving that day, I spent the next week or two doing a little research of my own. I looked up the Digital Evolution and a number of other headlights online, read reviews, asked around forums, you name it.

Last night I went online, ready to purchase a headlight, and sure that I was interested in the Digital Evolution, given my budget. I found it online for $189 and I thought, wow, great price. What held me back from making the purchase was that I wanted to give my LBS the business. After all, he did spend 1/2 hour talking to me about that light and others, I thought it was only fair.

I get in the shop today and the light is marked at $244, above the MSRP of $230. I tell him that I saw it online $189 and I was hoping for a little discount, if possible. He did end up knocking the price down to $220 (which is the price I suggested after he asked me what I thought was fair) after explaining to me that mail order and online stores can be more competitive with price.

But honestly, I'm a bit annoyed by the whole experience. He seemed annoyed that I even suggested a discount. So I'm left with a tough decision about future purchases. Do I go back to my LBS where I can get good service, and remain loyal to people that can help me as a bike owner and rider? Or, do I go online, where I can do all the research I need and more, completely on my own, AND get a much more competitive price?

With all of the online resources, it's not as if I need an advisor for some items, but I am left disheartened by this whole experience, just thought I'd share. What do you do? Support your local LBS no matter what the cost, or shop online?

2Rodies

Here is my take on the LBS vs Online. I always buy from LBS if they have it in stock. If they have to order it I'll do it myself and save some dough. I really try to support my LBS but I do have a really really good LBS. They are always ready to help and their prices are fair if not cheap.

MelloBoy

i dunno if you have other shops around you, but my lbs gives me a discount w/o me asking. i find a product i want, and i notice that after he or she rings me up, it's less than the marked price, after taxes.

hunt around for a few other shops maybe?

larue

Next time your out and are low on air, you can walk into an LBS and I guarantee you they will either fill your tube for you or let you use their pump. When you pop a tube you can go into a LBS and pick up a spare. If you want a bike they can fit it for you and do repairs. LBS's need the support and deserve it. Of course you can get products cheaper online and LBS's really can't compete with that if they expect to pay their bills each month. The LBS is the one that will assist you when you need help.

AeroDog

Within reason, I try to support my LBS. If he's within 15% of mail order, I'll buy from him.

greenstork

Just to be clear, you're saying you'd pay $55 more for a $200+ light? You're saying everything that your LBS does for you is worth a 25-40% markup on things you could buy online?

I'm all about supporting my LBS by buying things from them, but I guess I have a limit in my head that I won't necessarily cross in terms of cost.

kaisersling

I like to support small local businesses(i have been one myself)....however, I like to support my family more.
I am generally worried about my bottom line. Quite frankly, unless they come close on price and not make you feel bad about it, I cant worry about the LBS bottom line(or the ski shop, auto shop,etc) Unfortunately that's the way it is nowadays. I don't like it but.. Adapt or die.

Corsaire

Yup, it's called Capitalism. I try to support my LBS whenever possible, but certain things are just irresistable to pass up when shopping on-line.

Corsaire

pedal

If you want to pay for service, go with the LBS. I'm 100% faithful to my LBS for some of the outstanding things they've done over the years. You could easily spend an afternoon investigating parts online, reading reviews etc when your LBS SHOULD give you the low-down on what's good what's not and why. If they're good a good shop they won't try to sell you something you don't need.

robgreen

It's less of an issue for me -- since I live in Hawaii, the cost of shipping usually brings the two prices closer together. I don't feel too bad about ordering some stuff online right now, though, since Idropped a goodly sum at LBS to get my wife's bike's wheels rebuilt and have the bike tuned up. They did a good job for me, gave it a free tweek the next day (rear DR wasn't quite tuned in) and have given me a couple of the store logo water bottles without charging me since then.

But, in all fairness, if they don't have it in stock, I generally won't hesitate to order online, like the bike shorts for my wife when nobody had her size on hand.

(Thread hijack warning #1) -- by the by, Nashbar has a 2-for-1 shorts sale for web orders ending today (10/22).

(Thread hijack warning #2) - hey Greenstork, that's an interesting photo in your profile. Is that Bill Murray in the suit?

TheDL

Just to jump in here....I was calling around pricing a new headset for my project bike. 3 lbs's quoted $60+ for an Ultegra headset, Performance bike has it listed for $40. One lbs quoted a 105 headset for $44, Nashbar has it reg. price for $30, on sale for $23...

Now...I don't have the knowledge or tools to install it myself...but they'd charge me the same to install the headset whether I bought it from them or I brought them one.

So....

greenstork

That is indeed Bill Murray. Now the question is, in what movie?

Jessica

I think you need to think about what you personally need from a LBS. I can adjust the DR, and Brakes, and even do cables if i want to, but I cannot repair a derailler that is broken if I do not intend to replace it. I select from the LBS, near my work, near my home, and some others nearby that cater to special interest groups among the local bike community. One of the repair guys understands my attitude about riding, I want to give him my business, and his shop carries the kind of stuff I use. But if i *can't* get what I want from there, well...

caloso

Rushmore?

larue

you also have to pay, and wait for shipping. and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been screwed a bit by online ordering....
at an lbs the product is right there for you to check and test out, and no wait. And if the lbs has to order something they generally get it faster and don't charge you for shipping.

Retro Grouch 

A perfect compromise is a decision that leaves everybody equally unhappy.

Your bike shop owner would clearly rather have gotten the full price for the light, but made the informed decision that a lower margin sale was better for him than a no sale. You would rather to have bought the light from your LBS for the internet/mailorder price, but made the informed decision that you would rather support your friendly LBS so long as the price penalty doesn't get too high. I struggle to make that kind of decision every time that I buy a new part. I kind of think that's the way it's going to be from now on.

If I already know exactly what I want, I can usually get it both faster and cheaper via internet. Things like Shimano parts, I don't even ask the local shops because I know they aren't going to be very competitive. Hmmm, quicker, cheaper and I didn't use their time or knowledge. That's a no brainer to me.

If I'm not sure exactly what I want and I use a shop employee's time and knowledge to help me make a decision, I feel that it's only sporting to give them the sale.

For lots of stuff, the price works out close to the same regardless of where I buy it. In those cases, I'll give the LBS eight days (one week plus an ordering/receiving day) to get it. If they can't provide service that's that timely, then I'll order it from somebody who can. I think that's more than fair, but the three shops closest to me all have a hard time meeting that time frame. I'm frequently more interested in how long it's going to take to get something than I am in the lowest possible cost.

greenstork

Rushmore is right, Bill Murray at his best.

Nicco

Howdy
I run a Photographic store and we sell alot of Digital Cameras and like equipment. And I can relate to the On-line purchasing dilema with first hand knowlege.
I have customers that straight out say they want to look at something that they will probably buy online because of the large price difference. All I can do is give enough personal service to convince the customer that their money is well spent with me. And alot of times it works. Sometimes it doesn't.
As for my LBS's they are quite few in Austin so it is competative and the prices are fairly good and normally equal the on-line ones.
But that being said I am not made of money and when there is a substantial differnce I will go on-line.
Case in point, I bought a 04 Giro Atmos at Performance for about $100.00 (coupn and member special)
I dont expect my LBS to even come close to that. But that is $50.00 I worked hard for.
I will forgo a few dollars here or there to shop locally when the LBS deserves it,
But I hate to say I have yet to find a really outstanding LBS here. I have met with too many arrogent salespeople as of late. So I shop online first now.

If a shop overmarks up or cant be bothered to spend the time to build a relationship. Tell them with your feet.

Nicco

jkimbro

For more expensive, easy to install accessories, like saddles, I order online. Waiting a few days for arrival is really not too painful, plus it comes to my front door. But for other items, like my cyclocomputer, I asked if the price included installation. The reply was - "sure." So I bought a cyclocomputer with cadence ($60) and they installed it for free. Could have installed it myself, but, why not let the pros do it? Later, when I took my bike to the LBS for its first tune-up, after 220 miles, I mentioned that I was thinking about upgrading my brake pads. Guess what, new, much better brake pads ($16) professionally installed at no extra cost.
The clincher for where to buy not so expensive accessories came when I wanted a stiffer spring for the front fork on my mountain bike. I called and they said they didn't have it in stock, but would order it for me and it would be there in 3 days, cost $14. No advance payment needed, just come by when you can and pick it up. So I asked about installation - this is much more complicated than a saddle installation - total cost for suspension upgrade - $24. So... the LBS has its place despite bargain internet prices.

my58vw

I always get a 10 percent discount at my LBS. I only pick up the increadably expensive items that are super discounted over the web and even then most of the time it is through the LBS...

condor63

If the cost of the item is still cheaper with shipping, Buy online and only use the LBS when it is advantageous to you. Never be in the mind set that your helping them to keep afloat as we are not privaleged to there accounting books or the type of buisness practices they keep. If he's asking $220.0 with a hassle, i would've just said I'll get back to you as this is a high priced purchase and leave it at that.

Saher

I was just going to ask about people's thoughts on LBS vs. online today. In general, I also buy less expensive parts from the LBS, and just take the hit. But I'm wondering where to draw the line. Case in point: SRAM chain 22% over price at Excel Sports AFTER shipping, BEFORE sales tax. SRAM cassette $56 before tax at LBS, around $44 or so including shipping online. Tack on the 7.7% sales tax and it's an even bigger discrepancy.

At what price does the purchasing online kick in? These are both relatively inexpensive items, but $10 is the hourly wage (or higher) for a lot of people around here.

kevinmcdade

To me, it depends on the price difference. I am currently shopping for a new helmet, the Giro Monza...Performance has it for $60 -- I went to my LBS yesterday to check out their selection only to find the Monza for $100. Needless to say, I will be ordering my new helmet. I do buy the majority of my cycling needs and supplies locally because being a newbie, I value their advice and opinions.

bianchi_rider

Grrrrrrr another LBS thread......
I buy what I can wherever I can cheaper... If i find something online that the LBS doesnt have or does have but is more expensive than what I can find online I will buy online..
I am not anti LBS, BUT the LBS is a RETAIL STORE!!!! They are in business to make money, guess you can say I do get a bit fumed when I hear how great all the LBS's are, and what a cool place to hang out they are and so on. I beg to differ, next time you are there read the sign it says "Joes Bicycles and repair"
Not "joes bicycle hang out"
Years ago when I worked for a bike shop I would get so annoyed when people would come in and hang out bugging you, chit chatting about their ride or asking questions that had no relevence when a potential bike customer came in. I wanted to make my money on the big ticket items not the 1% commision waterbottle, Or these guys come in and hang out while you are trying to get things done around the shop. (I wish there was computers and a bike forum back then so I could make my sales, get my job done without being interrupted). Time is money folks, and so is the market on cycling items, online or at the LBS... How do you think the guy at the LBS would feel if I was hanging out and a guy comes in to buy a new trek, I am like a fly swarming around the place and I say ahhh man you dont want that trek, Bianchi is better or if I start interrupting the LBS person while he is trying to sale that bike, make his commission etc.
Sure the LBS gets my business, I take my bikes in to have them tuned, I buy tubes, butt butter, maybe a something that catches my eye or something I cant find online or need right at that very moment. But by all means I would not spend $200+ on a light when I could get it for $50+ cheaper online...
Warrenty you may ask, well if the light is new I am sure the manufacturer will honor the warrenty should the item be defective.
To be completely honest, its all the guys who say support the lbs, who cares about your pocket or your family, no need to save a buck because the LBS needs it more, those are the guys who make me want to buy more online, the LBS isnt going to go out of business because you buy things offline, if so that tells you that their prices are definately too high.
I am sure some of you will say the mark up in the LBS is not that much, again WRONG answer, it is, if it wasnt marked up how do you explain overhead, advertising, paychecks and commissions etc.
I have worked at a LBS and saw the mark ups, I have worked in retail in many other areas and have seen the mark ups, people would choke if they really knew the truth, but thats reality and no matter where you buy from there is a mark up, its my job as a smart shopper, a father and a husband to get the better buy and save some money for other things.
The LBS does get support from sales to new buyers, (thats where you come in helpfull, by recomending the LBS to those people looking for a new bike, or when they need a tune up, or tubes etc, you recomend your bike store) They get a lot of their income from service, take a look next time you are in the LBS at all the bikes in back awaiting tune ups etc. They get support from advertising and helping with local and charity rides.
So greenstork when you can get something cheaper or for a better price online than your LBS then go for it, Support your LBS by taking your bike in for service, tune ups, wheels trued, butt butter, tubes, charity rides sponsered by your LBS and by recomending friends, riders, strangers or whoever is in the market for a new bike or a tune up.

greenstork

And this has been my intention all along, you simply verbalized much of what I was thinking. Spot on advice, cheers. I'm really only going to pay more when I ask their advice and use up their time helping me OR when it's not a financial burden to buy something there.