beatlebee 

So, I have decided to upgrade my wheelset and since I am putting so many miles on my bike and training hard, I want a powertap. I am a noob here and searched/read a bit.
I am looking for a wheelset that comes in less than 1800g, with the powertap. (I run shimano and weigh 164#) Hopefully that can be achieved with out too much fuss.
Q:
1. Wired versus wireless?
2. Head unit: what type, etc. I know nothing here.
3. Any ebay sellers to look out for?
4. Possible to do this with a reputable builder here for under $900 new, or must I look for used?
5. ANything else you'd recommend?

Thanks

bikepro

I doubt you'll find a new wireless for under $900. Closer to $1500 for entry level wireless.

Competitive Cyclist has a wired Powertap build for $660.

beatlebee 

What are the benefits of wireless?

And is my weight request a fantasy?

grwoolf

Entry level wireless (the elite hub) can be built on a basic rear wheel for under $800. If you care about weight (get under 1,800), you'll probably want to get the pro model which runs another $100 bucks or so and might want to spend a little more on the rim/spokes.

Wireless is nice because... there are no wires. Also makes it easier to use on multiple bikes. You just have a wheel and a computer (I like my garmin 500).

PSIMET is a guy on this site that builds wheels and he gets good reviews (but sometimes there is a long lead time). www.psimet.com

beatlebee 

So, the price you quote is for the rear wheel only correct?
Any weight penalty for the wireless?

I have contacted psimet, no response yet, though my request has now changed.

Drew Eckhardt 

Wireless because that gets you compatibility with head units that store more than one ride between downloads, display more than 3 data fields, have back lights, etc.

GPS is a little interesting because it makes it easier to find specific events like a big hill by location instead of looking for some long stretch of data where power is high but speed is low or having to mark them with a lap button.

Garmin Edge 500. Displays up to 8 data fields per page (5 or under are more readable when you're working hard), has a back light, stores at least 24 hours and 32 rides (I delete monthly and am a slacker riding only 6 hours a week), downloads via a standard mini USB cable, includes GPS coordinates. Current power displays are only 1, 3, or 30 second averages (the Powertap samples around 60Hz; so if you're pedaling at 85 RPM some seconds have 3 samples and some have 2 and even with 3 second averaging the display is bouncing around. 30 seconds is too long to pace short intervals) where the Cervo and presumably Joule give you more options. Some firmware versions are flaky but people report this is fixed.

Probably not for wireless including a head unit but you might want to ask around. Doable for the wired units.

If you get a used Powertap you want someone to verify the zero with a Cervo aka "Little Yellow Computer". 512 inch pounds is normal. The manual neglects to specify a tolerance, but +/- 8 has been posted on-line.

Service is $300-$350 plus shipping which will eat up all the savings you got by buying used if it wasn't a good deal on a SL+.

Newer hubs have 15mm axles instead of 12mm. This allows free hub swaps from Campagnolo to Shimano/SRAM without tools or re-dishing which might be nice if you have both flavors of road/tri/cross bikes. They're stiffer which some big riders noticed. Bearing life is reportedly worse since the outside diameter remains the same but they loose 3mm off the inside.

You do not want an older wired Powertap which holds the non drive-side cover on with a pair of screws and lacks the carbon windows in the hub. The old hubs are no-longer supported by Saris so you can't get them calibrated. You can't put a Campagnolo freehub on them. While a good alternative to training with heart rate for not a lot of money over $250 for such a complete setup is too much. In E-bay auctions such setups can be mis-labeled and sell for as much as a newer setup (ex, you might see a "Wired 2.4" setup which comes with a newer 2.4 GHz heart rate strap and wired computer but old wheel).

beatlebee 

Okay, I prefer a smallish headunit and will download data after a ride or two at most. I prefer few data displays and dont need a gps. I would need it backlit and understand the usefulness of the higher sampling rate.
Would something other than the garmin fit?

Butcher

No suprises there. I gave up on him.

JTGraphics

I don't think you will find a Powertap wheelset in the sub 1800g range for $900 new.
Used if you watch you can find a deal @ $900 but sub 1800g you will need to look harder for that combo.
Used you also take the risk buying something that may need rebuilding and if the computer on it goes thats like a $500 repair alone.
As for the wired or wireless that will just depend on what you can find used sub 1800g @ $900 range I'll guess a used wired wheelset at that price.
Get it with the head also unless you are willing to spend a more for something like a Garmin GPS to go with it and that means sticking to wireless ANT+ compatable and a wireless wheelset.
Good luck.

beatlebee 

Will offering used bike parts to the local co-op as a sacrifice be more likely to cause the gods to bless me with a miraculous used powertap deal?

Drew Eckhardt 

Wireless can weigh more or less than wired depending on vintage and how much you spend.

Equivalent (old SL wired, new SL+ wireless) hubs weigh within a few grams of each other.

Current wired and wireless hubs aren't equivalent. Wired Comp hubs pair the carbon windows with a steel axle so they weigh 576 grams which is less than an Elite+ wireless at 624 and more than a 466 gram Pro+ wireless or 412 gram SL+ wireless. The Comp hubs also only come in a 32 hole drilling versus 20/24/28 hole options so a deep wheel built on one may have more spokes and weigh more. This is where the Saris/Cycleops marketing guys earn their salaries by specifying product at various price points with similar production costs so they can squeeze more profit from people.

The computers look to be the same (the "wired" model is actually wireless and receives ANT+ heart rate strap transmissions but the hub transmits to the shark-fin wired antenna instead of directly to the computer) but the wired model has a harness with non-zero weight. You don't need a separate ANT+ speed/cadence sensor with a Powertap hub since the hub reports wheel RPM and estimates cadence off power pulse frequency.

JTGraphics

if you have the money now you may want to buy this set it should be sub 1800g Easton EA90 SLX w/SL+ powertap I'm sure its right around that weight if not slihtly less.

beatlebee 

Thanks, I already sent a PM.
Do you know about the Easton wheelset? ANy good?

Drew Eckhardt 

Not if you start with a used SL/SL+/maybe Pro+ hub. Kinlin XR-270/XR-300 will give you a somewhat more aerodynamic depth below your target weight and Mavic/DT/etc. box-section rims will get there with more drag. You can even use 32 spokes with the lighter hubs. A new Elite+ in back which might fit your budget will push you over that, and while in theory you could use stupid-light rims alloy clincher rims under 400 grams don't seem to be long lived for most riders.

JTGraphics

I have a set great wheel and light @ your weight should be fine also I'm 162 lb - 168 lb I also had a PT SL+ built by Pismit using a Kinlin XR-270 rim with CXRay-Black spokes it came out to 1001g rear only using my front I have it's 604g

Psimet2001 

Nice.

I work 20 hours a day and have over 1,000 emails in my inbox for quote. When it's like this I try to concentrate on delivering wheels to customers that have already paid. It sucks but people don't want to pay much for what they ride so even with this volume there is not enough to keep a real business afloat.

OP - if you're still interested you'll have to give me and idea of your email address. That way I can locate it.

beatlebee 

Psimet: no worries. I'll send my email to your inbox.
But I just received word from a member here that he is still selling his Easton Wheelset with SL+ powertap.

Thanks

hodie21

Contact Psimet.

topflightpro

My PowerTap wheelset weighs in at just over 1600 grams, with rim strips. But it cost more than $900.

I'm running an older PowerTap SL 2.4, with CX-Ray spokes laced 1x drive side, 2x non drive side to a Kinlin 27mm rim, 28 hole. Up front, I have a 20 hole Ligero hub radially laced to a Kinlin 27mm rim.

hodie21

That is a wired SL Power Tap just to clarify for you.

echappist

edit, i meant you can get elite+ for less than $900 and pro+ a bit higher than that. But not for a wheelset.

Rob is busy, but please be patient. He treats his customers extremely well. He bears with you when you want hand wringing, and he'll be there for you if you have problems after the sale. There's a good reason why many of the people here go to him.

He is basically a mini wheelbuilders.com, but he's a one person operation at this moment. Lower overhead cost (means considerable savings to you) but longer wait time. If you have a sponsorship with wheelbuilders.com (or say if you have a friend racing on UCLA collegiate team), feel free to go to them, but if you are like many here who would like a good price, Rob is the way to go. I waited two months for mine and was very happy with my purchase.

Now, granted, i bought only my front wheel from him, not the rear. Some pro who was sponsored by Saris was selling his 28H SL+ for $550 shipped (with HRM and computer), and i snatched it 15 minutes after he posted it on slowtwitch. If you want a really really good price, be prepared to spend 4 months trolling slowtwitch, serotta classified, weight weenies, road bike review, and ebay for deals. I originally wanted to order from Rob, but when my bike fund took a hit due to an cycling injury, i went with the used wheel route. However, i know i'll be replacing the rim sometimes soon, and i know from whom i'll be ordering the supplies.

One other thing to keep in mind is that if you buy used, you should be ready to spend $350 on repairs if the unit is out of warranty. It rarely happens, but it may be needed.

Two very good points mentioned here.

Point one is that you get to use more complex head units. You may eventually like to see both instantaneous and average lap powers, for which case a Joule headunit would be great. Saris gives you a big discount on the Joule when you purchase a new ptap.

Point two is that you should definitely get the 15mm alloy axle. The older, SL stuff came with 12mm axle.

sbxx1985 

Excellent.

JTGraphics

Ah now I see its also a ProSL still a nice PT wheelset if you don't mind wired.

beatlebee 

I dont mind wired but thinking about the cost of revamping the used unit. It hasn't been used much so I dont think that this would be an issue right now. But should I ante up and just get a new unit? I prefer not to go over $1k really.

Midwest Ullrich

I have a question.....for whose who use PT as training wheel and use something else for racing, how do you manage to sense speed and distance? Do you have to swap out the head unit with a regular speedometer? Or does the original PT pickup sensor detect a regular spoke magnet?