cuda2k

I'm on the waiting list for a custom steel frame from Dave Kirk (Kirk Frameworks). I had found a great deal on an Athena 11sp group (mix of 2010 and 2011 to make an all-alloy group), jumped on the deal. Long story short - campy in their infinite Italian wisdom decided to make the 2011 shifters only shift 1 gear on the down-shift (smaller cog), which I wasn't aware of at the time. After a week of consideration I decided I really did want the multi-shift functionality as I have on both my Serotta and Fuji (both 10sp Campy). Thankfully the shop I bought the Athena from is allowing me to return the Athena group and will be getting either a 2009/2010 Centaur or 2011 Chorus group from in return.

So do I go with the 11sp Chorus, all-black/carbon, for the additional $$$.
Or do I go with the 10sp Centaur group - all or nearlly all Alloy as with the Athena which is what attracted me to the group in the first place (in addition to 11sp) - which would also allow me to swap wheels around between my new frame and my other 10sp bikes.

Homebrew01

Can you still get the older Centaur ?
A warning about the 2009 Centaur shifters. The shifting is "mushy"... meaning that the "clicks" up onto bigger cogs in back are very faint and it actually is difficult to tell how far you're shifing. A bit like a friction shifter. Thumb shifting to a bigger gear is fine. I have a set of alloy and have moved them to my rain bike.

Some people swapped the internals to get better "clicks", but I think the parts are no longer available.

That's what prompted me to buy the 2010 Centaur for my next bike, but have not built it up yet.

cuda2k

Homebrew, thanks for the word of warning. I have a set of the Carbon "new-gen" Centaur shifters on my Fuji, the first year that Centaur with to the new hood style, forget what year that was, maybe 2009, so I think I know what feeling you're talking about. And I've been thinking of doing that internals swap next time I get to working on that bike. I'll need to confirm with the shop what year the shifters are I guess.

noise boy

I just got the 2010 Veloce shifters and the clicks for shifting are very positive plus they have the 5 up/3 down shifting.

Homebrew01

Yes, 2010 were the ones to get. Not sure if Centaur 2010 was available in aluminum though, which some people want because it looks better for their bikes.

I wonder if levers could be swapped between 2009 & 2010 to get alloy levers on a 2010 body. I could do that between my rain bike (2009 alum) & my steel bike (2010 carbon). hmmmmm.

Campag4life

aluminum and carbon levers likely can be swapped. You could confirm this by a shifter housing part number comparison on Campag's website...if housing part numbers are the same which they most certainly are for both 10 and 11 speed, then all the levers should be interchangable.
Cuda..word up on retrofitting parts...Campy is getting out of the part business unless you find a very well connected Campy dealer.
As to Chorus 11 s? All what it is worth to you? It isn't to me but others will disagree and want the 11s and steer away from Athena for 2011. I believe 2010 Athena 11s shifters where Ultrashift however. I really like 2010 Centaur shifters versus '09 shifters...they feel vastly better....and have had both.
Its all good really...you can do the math on the price difference and determine if its worth it.
If you want old school alloy but don't need 11s, you maybe able to find 2010 Veloce shifters as mentioned as well...which will shift fine with any of the other 10s stuff, including older Chorus.
Cheers.

Drew Eckhardt 

Shiny Bikes still has 2010 Centaur carbon levers. I paid $193 including a cable set plus shipping before the supply dried up.

The other 10 speed alternative is current production Record and Chorus Quick Shift ( not escape, although that went with QS on Veloce and lower levers) second generation levers.

You can get a replacement mechanism (the entire lever but no brake blade, hood, or mounting hardware) for about $90.

dstrong 

Di2

JoelS

I've got Chorus 11sp on 2 bikes. Outstanding group. The hoods are very comfy.

sethco

I have a set of 2010 Centaur shifters waiting to go on a new frame along with 2011 Centaur deraillieurs. From my research it sounded like the mushy shifting was on early 2009 shifters and was fixed within the model year; any NIB parts that you find now are likely with the revised mechanism. The 2011 rear derailleur is redesigned like the 11 speed parts which looks better to me and reportedly shifts a little better too.

Since you already have a couple of 10sp setups it might make sense to stick with that so you can swap parts around (cassettes, chains). Or can you keep the Athena and just upgrade the levers to Chorus?

dbh

I had this very same decision to make recently. I ended up going with 2010 Centaur. I think 11 speed is entirely unnecessary. Plus the cost of Campy 10 speed cassettes and chains is quite affordable when ordering from the UK. The 5/3 shifting is what sets Campy apart imho.

Drew Eckhardt 

Black aluminum, although if you're going to do that you might as well get a set of 2010 Veloce Ultrashift levers from Excel Sports Boulder for $120.

M21

I have a Dave Kirk JK Special that I put the all alloy 2011 Athena group on and I like it, why not just go 2011 all alloy Athena with 2011 Chorus shifters? I hear others talking about the 11speed being unecessary but if you want smoother, faster, and more precise shifting then it is the way to go campy was looking to improve shifting and found the space for another gear after all the engineering. That extra gear makes everything work that much better. Go for the 11sp alloy with the Chorus 11sp shifters. I have 2009 Chorus 11 sp on my Colnago MXL and it is great, but the 2011 Athena shifts better!

AngryScientist 

i say keep the athena group, sell the shifters and buy 2011 chorus shifters, should be about 100 dollars out of pocket to make that swap. that's certainly what i would do.

cuda2k

That's certainly an option as well. I may also be able to snag a set of the 2010 Athena shifters which shouldn't be much if at all different from the Chorus from the seller, offer a straight up exchange just on the shifters even though he's selling the 2010 versions a bit cheaper.

Campag4Life - recall you mentioning there was a difference in the 2011 RD's compared to the 2010?? (Yes, I PM'ed you on the same topic, but thought I'd throw that out here too)

Campag4life

Hi Cuda,
A quick critique relative to Campy's redesigned derailleurs for both 10s and 11s for 2011.
Campy as you usually do...trickle down their design changes to lower level groups. Btw, this isn't philanthropy ...its economics...IF they can make more stuff the same only brand aka market it with a different profit margin to the uninitiated, then they do Commonization saves money even if the lower stuff gets slightly higher level content...std. engineering practice.

So when Campy went to 11 speed they knew they needed a bit more precisely shifting RD because reducing cable pull of 11s still has to move the chain off the cog in back and that means the RD has to respond with precision. They accomplished this a couple of ways.

One...they increased the width of the front parallelogram plate. What this does it make it more rigid but more importantly it spacing out the pivot pins which for the same clearance/tolerance causing the parallelogram to deflect less...similar to both Shimano and Sram incidentally if you put them side by side.

Second...they revised the entire cage that captures upper and lower pullies and also redesigned the pulleys themselves for improved noise and tracking.

So in my opinion, if given an opportunity, I say go with the 2011 rear derailleur for either 10s or 11s. Saying that, while mandatory for 11s because of different throw ratio, not critical with 10s in my experience. If you have an excellent 10s rear derailleur currently...say an earlier 10s Chorus or Record rear derailleur with Carbon Fiber front plate, you will be fine with your new shifters. My 2006 Chorus rear derailleur shifted well with new 2010 10s CF Centaur shifters. Incidentally side by side the parallelogram spring in my '06 Chorus rear derailleur is every bit as stout as the new 2011 Centaur 10s rear derailleur. I didn't expect that incidentally. Campy has been careful about not increasing their rear derailleur spring tension in favor of lighter shifting and why they or rather we 'sometimes' get in trouble if there isn't precise attention to cable routing and/or set up.

In summary, for 11 speed, you have to go with the new rear derailleur design for 2011 because of different throw ratio. For 10s its optional. I just decided now was a good time to upgrade my bike and install the more precise 2011 10s Centaur rear derailleur on my 10s bike and so went for it. It does shift beautifully.

As a sidebar...the new 2011 Campy alloy rear derailleur weighs about the same as the older carbon fiber Campy rear derailleurs if you are weight conscious. Of course the all carbon fiber 2011 Super Record is not only gorgeous but uber light and very expensive.

Hope that helps...pics of old and new below:

cuda2k

Ah, you're comparing the 2010 Centaur to the 2011, yes, they did pass the 11sp style mech down to the 10sp Centaur this year. I think I'm going to try to get the shop to swap me my 2011 shifters for the 2010 Athena (carbon wrapped, but proper internals). I've actually grown accustomed to the carbon levers as I have them on all 3 of my other campy rigs and when you wrap the bars in black tape it doesn't look half bad even for a polished alloy enthusiast such as myself.

Campag4life

I prefer the carbon levers personally as well. Have fun with your build. I think you will be happy with the result.

cuda2k

Done deal, sending the 2011 shifters back to the shop, getting a set of the 2010 shifters in exchange. I bought through VeloMine.com (also active on eBay). Ben Cole has been great with communication before and after the sale and is a US based shop will meet any price in the US or Europe. Two big