Frame Geometry for Long Legs and Short Torso
 

I am a tall rider with a lot of legs, I am 6'2 1/2" tall with a 39" inseam. I am trying to understand what I need in a bike frame and seem to be getting lots of different info. If I go to a bike shop(I have been to at least 15) they seem lost as what to do with me as they almost all just want to sell me something out of stock and then put a bunch of parts off their shelves to frankenstein something together. I understand I will have to get different stems and seat posts to fit my needs, but they all seem to just light up with the idea of selling me an ill fitting frame and then trying to "fit" it will more off the shelf parts.

I have owned a couple bikes, and ridden a bunch and never had luck finding anything I felt even vaguely at home on. So am I getting to the point that I need to educate myself on what the frame geometry actually means. I think the standard 73 degree geometries might not be my friend. I am comfortable reading geometry specs on manufacturers websites, and have a good feeling for the ideas behind fitting the bike and have done a lot of reading on it. What I still am trying to learn is the details of moving the bottom bracket location, changing the angle of the seat tube and head tube, the result of longer or shorter head tubes, etc, etc.

I am all for reading up if there are good resources available, or someone that can explain out some stuff here. I don't mind it getting a little technical, even if I gotta re-read it 2 or 3 times.

I did the competativecyclist fit and the results are posted below, but basically my legs have me on a bike 10cm bigger than my torso, so it's hard to really figure out what I need.

Measurements (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Inseam: 99
Trunk: 62
Forearm: 38
Arm: 67
Thigh: 69
Lower Leg: 61
Sternal Notch: 162
Total Body Height: 189


The Competitive Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 64.2 - 64.7
Seat tube range c-t: 66.1 - 66.6
Top tube length: 54.2 - 54.6
Stem Length: 11.8 - 12.4
BB-Saddle Position: 85.1 - 87.1
Saddle-Handlebar: 56.1 - 56.7
Saddle Setback: 10.6 - 11.0


The Eddy Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 65.4 - 65.9
Seat tube range c-t: 67.3 - 67.8
Top tube length: 54.2 - 54.6
Stem Length: 10.7 - 11.3
BB-Saddle Position: 84.3 - 86.3
Saddle-Handlebar: 56.9 - 57.5
Saddle Setback: 11.8 - 12.2


The French Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 67.1 - 67.6
Seat tube range c-t: 69.0 - 69.5
Top tube length: 55.4 - 55.8
Stem Length: 10.9 - 11.5
BB-Saddle Position: 82.6 - 84.6
Saddle-Handlebar: 58.6 - 59.2
Saddle Setback: 11.3 - 11.7

Like this, ask this guy.

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/.../fall09018.jpg

Honestly, I'd start calling or emailing a couple of the names found here: http://www.framebuilderscollective.org/ and http://www.richardsachs.com/site/the-next-wave/

From my completely uneducated estimate, you do fall into that small percentage of folks who really do need "custom geometry" where a custom built frame is really the best option.

Kirk Frameworks (Dave Kirk)
Anderson Custom Bicycles (David Anderson)
Vendetta Cycles (Garrett Clark and Conor Buescher)

that's the top 3 that were on my list when I finally decided to order a custom rig. They all build in steel, but the links above will give you options in Ti and carbon as well.

Cool, good links to builders. I had seen the Habanero stuff before, seems to be a great deal. What's peoples feelings on them? If I could I would really like a Ti frame, but price definitely plays a factor, so the Hab stuff seems a great deal at first look.

a good friend of mine has one of the stock Hab's. He's been happy with it. Not sure just how much I'd trust the company to design a well performing bike with very odd geometry, but that's a question probably best posted to the owner of the Hab above. Also, being such a large guy, I would seriously research Ti in large frames before you buy. Give Carl Strong a call or email him, get his input on if a Ti frame would be too flexible for you. He may suggest steel as a better option, but I'm not going to assume either way but wanted to bring it up based on what I've read from frame builders regarding Ti in large frames and/or larger riders.

FWIW, I agree with cuda2k that with those long legs and short torso, you're a candidate for a custom frame. You'll need a much shorter top tube than stock frames built for riders with average proportions. An LBS with a fit cycle and a good fitter on staff will be able to dial in the right geometry for you.

Huh,

Even with a 39" inseam you don't need some stupid long seat tube like 64 to 67cm. I have a 38.5 inseam and ride a custom 61 st with a 68 tt. [I'm 6' 9"]

Seems like every commercial XL frame is made for you, long [ish] seat tube and short top tube. Of course short to some would be long to other depending on what your current position is like. You didn't mention what you plan to do in the way of riding, that makes a huge difference imo...........................

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kFFsK9uidA...bed-ticj-2.jpg

I just bought a new bike. i'm 5'10" but long legs and short torso. they fit me to a 52cm. gave me the impression that you choose your frame by your torso length more than your leg length.

But only if you care about being correctly positioned between the wheels............[what a concept]

My plans for this bike are to do your general road riding, I like being somewhat aggressive but don't have to be super aggressive. I will get out and do road rides of anywhere from 45 minutes to 2 hours but may want to eventually do some longer rides once I can get comfortable on a bike. May consider doing a couple multiday distance rides. I won't ever use the bike as a commuter or just screwing around I want to get out and work up a sweat when I ride. I may participate in some events/races but not with the intention to win, just put up a decent time for myself. I will often maintain 20mph+ on flats but also will often cruise down around 17mph and if I am really pumping I can push up in the mid 20s. My weight will bounce around between 210-220 depending how close to the holidays it is but tend to trim down during riding season.

Based on some of the bike fitting info I have seen, for my torso I would be on like a 54 frame, maybe a 56, but then based on my legs it would be a 64 or bigger, so anything with that kinda size has way too much top tube for me. The more I look at it, the more it looks like custom, but I just want to make sure I have done my research and if I do go custom eventually I want to know what I am doing when I finally pull the trigger and fully understand the frame design that I am paying for.

I am on a Ti frame right now(that I got dirt cheap used) and I love the general feel of the material although I don't fit well but if ultimately it's not the right material for me then I will stay away from it. I am a little afraid of a full carbon setup as well. I know there is of course also aluminum and steel but have also heard of magnesium frames.

Seems like frame what I am seeing so far is I need a lot more head tube in whatever I ride. Also trying to understand the effects of seat tube angle and head tube angle.

What you need is a bike with a shorter top tube and a taller head tube, and add a few spacers + riser stem to it. That ought to give you a relatively decent fit, if you are somewhat flexible.

That works for me, but I am 6'0" and have a 35" inseam. I fit into a 56 with about 5" of saddle-to-handlebar drop.

You are 2 inches taller and have a torso that is 2 inches shorter than mine - unless you like a *really* aggressive fit, I am not sure if you'll find any stock frame that will work for you, to be honest.

I'm sort of with Agave here. Most algorithmic fit calculators seem to fall apart at extreme heights or unusual body proportions. I'd really like to see what the Eddy fit would recommend if for Eddy's actual measurements.

You're in good company-- Eddie and Axel Merckx, Felice Gimondi, and Fausto Coppi were all tall racers with rangy builds. Though I wouldn't recommend using Coppi's fit as a model.

You might be able to get comfortable on a 60-62 cm stock frame that happens to have a short-ish top tube, with a slightly extended head tube to ameliorate the reach. Check out a Trek Madone, H2 fit, in 60 or 62, a Scott CR1 in 61, or a Bianchi Infinito or Sempre in 61.

Generally, taller guys can handle a little more saddle-to-handlebar drop than their shorter buddies, but you don't need to go super aggressive.

Whatever you end up with, anticipate swapping for a shorter stem.

This has gotten to be too complicated. You need simple answers. A unicycle

If you got the cash, go custom. If you're not ready to take that plunge, find a used frame/bike and run an up angled stem while you decide how 'into it' you're going to be for how long.

Looks like you have considerable bar-drop, Agave. Do you know what it is? Not everyone can handle that much drop. I'm 6' 6", with most of my height in my legs. My drop is currently 4cm - that's a 29cm HT, with no spacers, and a -6* stem. I'm looking a at a new racing bike (Trek Madone 64cm 'H2'), and can replicate the 4cm drop with the stem up and the stock spacers in place - but it's 2cm longer reach.

OP - how much bar-drop you want and can handle is a big factor, along with the TT of course. Those two are what I consider the critical measurements - you can usually find a way to get the seat where you want it, but you don't want to be going crazy with super long/short stems, gobs of spacers, or heaven forbid a steering tube extender.

Also, if you decide to go custom, go somewhere that has a Fitmaster rig, or something similar. Have the geo you are considering setup on the rig, and "ride" it for as long as you can. That will get the geo you order at least in the right range, and you can tweak the fit after you've actually ridden it for a few months.

AZ, Yeah, I ride a ton of drop.....120mm.

BUT, fit and fitness go hand in hand. Not saying I'm really fit but I couldn't have ridden that drop comfortably a year ago. Core strength and pelvis position [forward/down]. In fact back on the bike after a 20+ year break from a hasbeen/neverwas/ Cat. 3 'career', I had to ride a 62 TT with a 100mm 45 degree up stem to be comfortable for the first month or so.

Fit and fitness........

Right now I have a stack of stems, maybe 4-5 all different lengths and angles, I also have at least 3 different seatposts. I have a Thomson setback(or set forward depending how you orient it) and a couple FSAs. I keep playing around with stuff, but to get the best fit I could so far on my bike I have to run a Thomson 410 pretty far out. I did a triathlon on my current bike just to say I had done it, so I got some clamp on aero bars and used the Thomson as a forward offset to get the geometry right, went through and fit myself on a trainer, etc, etc. But it's going to mainly be a road bike, that's what all my riding will be.

I can handle a fair amount of drop, I don't mind the saddle being well above the handlebars. I read up on a number of the different fit techniques, I have the plumb bobs and the levels, I end up getting my bikes set up...eh, so so considering what I have to work with. But with my weight I am wondering if running on the more extreme ends of "tweaking" the fit I am ultimately defeating the design of the frame. One guy I ride with suggested that running that much seat post may be adding too much stress to the frame at the seat tube/top tube joint.

Tweeking is having a custom frame and +/- mm to fine tune position.

I believe you may be making the wrong bike 'ride-able' with stems and backassward seat posts.

What's the situation with your savings account?

if you are in New York state consider given signature cycles a (locations in ny metro, upstate and CT) I have used them for a fitting and other equipment needs. They do a great job. Ask for Paul or Soren. Their shops are set up to do mainly multi-brand custom frame builds and really just focus on fitting you right. You end up with lots of precise numbers for your fit which can be used to build a custom frame or shop anywhere for something stock that might fit your numbers. Great folks.

Absolutely. Unless you are already really fit, you have to realize how much things will change over time, and allow for that. I had only been commuting for a year, with no long hard rides at all, when I bought my custom Gunnar. I've now been doing group rides for a year, and training in an organized way for 5 months. My fit requirements are now significantly different. It's usually true that your first road bike just lets you know what the right one needs to be like. I thought I had enough experience when I ordered the custom, but I was a newb. It's a great bike that will become my bad weather bike, and no doubt provide lots of utility for many years. But I'm racing now, and it just isn't right for that. Racing crit's on a 69cm bike with a 105.4 wheelbase is possible, but.. ahem.. less than ideal. With my improved fitness, I can ride a stock bike.

IMO, your concerns about the effects of handling are valid; you are likely not getting the ride intended by the designer. If you have the right seat post, there should be enough post in the ST to handle the load, but you could going to even greater extremes than I have in the past, maxing out an extra long seatpost.

I'm 230# and that's a carbon seat post in my IF and I can't break either the frame [Ti] or the seat post.

I agree 100%.

Well, I am ok in savings, but got a lot of expenses coming up. That said there is a lot of equity in my current bike, so I think I can leverage that for something else. I have a Litespeed Ghisallo with Dura Ace components, so weighing the options between selling that and using it towards a new bike, or stripping it, selling the frame and putting the components on the new frame.

Here is an article I read and re-read all the time: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html