Got a Pro-Fit, still some problems. UPDATE W/Pic!
 

Well I got a Pro-Fit over the weekend and am a little frustrated. We made some pretty good changes and learned something about myself. My right tibia is shorter than the left by about 5-6mm. My problem before and after the fit is alot of pressure on my hands and they go numb around the 5-6 mile mark. He said that my core is neither strong or weak but at anycase i shouldnt have that much weight on my hands. I'm gonna do core excercises and hope that helps. Anybody else have simiilar issues?

You probably need a shorter and/or taller stem. You're stretching out putting a lot of your weight on your hands. Do you wear gloves ?

Do you have to push off of the bars when sitting up to ride no-handed?

We changed stems and yes I wear gloves. I'm not stretched out by any means nor am I cramped.

Yes.

A few things I noticed is it will take several weeks for your body to get use to the different fit.
Another most people come in with the fork steerer cut to short and the fitter while wanting to maybe raise the stem is stuck at that point.
When I built my bike I had left some steerer before final cutting and he said he was so glad I did because most people want to cut it down to low.
Give the new fit some time at least a few weeks.
Stem length may be a issue with you also you may need a shorter one I took several with me that I had.
All that said the fitter is only as good as his rep. and training and in field know how which is worth more than any course they take.

Can you put some spacers in to raise the bars?

Raise Dat Stem!

by Bob Gordon

A flat back is one of the hallmarks of an experienced cyclist, particularly a racer, and over the years I have seen the prevailing attitudes towards rider positioning devolve to the point where if you don't cycle with your back parallel to the ground, you're cast off as a beginner.

But like many other concepts recreational riders adopt, the low back originated in the professional ranks after extensive research in aerodynamics proved this would help the fast go faster. Competitive athletes routinely sacrifice both their short and long term health for the express purpose of winning, but you may have a different agenda.

Lower back disc problems peak the ages of 30 and 50. There are many causes, but if your back pain is exacerbated by riding, it's a good bet the cause is bouncing around on your bike while your lower spine is extensively flexed (loss of lower back arch). A low, forward torso causes the inner portion of the disc (the nucleus purposes) to press back against the outer restraining fibers (the annulus fibroses). This pressure eventually causes the disc to bulge or herniate. The nearby nerves get squeezed, and the next thing you know, someone like me is telling you you have sciatica.

Cycling mitigates some of the problems of a habitually flexed lumbar spine because of the "bridge effect" that's created by resting some of your weight on your hands. But the lumbar region and its soft tissues are still at risk just by being continuously hyper flexed, and if you sit all day at your job, the danger is compounded.

On the flip side, cycling entirely upright does not solve the problem either. True, the inter-vertebral discs and spinal ligaments are in a more neutral position and absorb shock better, but the load is now transmitted axially, which is fatiguing and jarring. Also, in a bolt-upright position you can't use your gluteus or hamstrings to great advantage, which means your thighs (quadriceps) get overworked, you lose a lot of power, the unused hamstrings and gluteal muscles go flabby, and you catch all that wind. It's hard to be happy about all that, racer or no.

There is, however, a position that allows good performance while minimizing risk of lower back injury. I like a stem height and length that puts your back about 50 degrees from horizontal, while your arms and legs bend slightly at the elbows, as shown in figure 2 up there. To achieve this, you'll probably have to raise your bars, and assuming you want to keep the same bar style (as opposed to riding with stingray bars or something), that usually means getting another stem, one with a taller quill or a steep rise to it. If you hit the sweet spot, a photo of you from the side will reveal a nice pyramid composed of top tube, torso and arms.'


...but, strengthening your arms and core is always a good idea.

did they correct the leg length differences?
http://www.bikefit.com/

My hands used to get sore for that reason, because my seat is pretty far forward.
But I like my seat far forward so instead of moving it back, I was able to fix the problem by getting some gel pads to put under the bar wrap.

i really wish more bikes came with more steerer from the factory.

max cavelara! awesome!

I had similar problems when I started riding a few years ago. Got a good fit dialed in with a very experienced pro fitter and it felt great for 10-15 miles of riding.... but after that point I would get horrible pain in the hands, wrists and lower back. Working on my core strength is what made the pain go away. Along with riding in the mornings, I was doing crazy amounts of crunches and back raises every night. Once I became sufficiently strong so that I could 'hover' in a riding position on the drops, with my hands barely touching or completely removed from the bars, I was no longer having the pain that you are now experiencing.

A short-term fix is to raise your bars. This will put more of your weight on your behind and alleviate pressure on your hands. But for the long term, a little bit of core strength goes a long way.

FWIW I used to have hand problems riding with gloves, then I stopped wearing them and the numbness and pain went away. If you're riding in heavily padded gloves it allows you to put more weight on your hands and grip the bars tighter, which can cause hand pain. If you don't have a strong core, it will make it worse when you slump over.

I have my three lower discs herniated several mm. The fix was strong core. It was take 2-3 weeks before your body becomes accustomed to changes of the fit.

nothing that can be said about how your 'fit' suits ...
however unless this guy has some physio/kinesio background I wouldn't put much weight in his statement "He said that my core is neither strong or weak".
there's ALWAYS room for core improvement...

of you ride a lot with the palms wrapped around the top bend, then there may be too much pressure on the nerve paths in tha hand, most of which funnel thru the plam hollow.
Things to do.
1. ride more on the hoods with thumbs hooked
2. bend the elbows downward, not outward - also locked shoulders tend to tranmit shocks into the hands and into the neck.
3. increase the circumference of the bar at that point (slightly is often enough) - options there are gels pads under the wrap (I use and like them) double wrap (use and like that) , old split inner tube under the wrap (use and like that alot, adds thickness without squishy feeling)
4. more core work, especially intercostals
5. hip flexibility work - more hip flexibility means you can rotate the pelvis forward and gain a flatter back and take shocks away from the spine, which also reduces tendency to drop upper body weight onto the hands - cyclists all are prone to hip inflexibility issues - nature of the game...
some spin rounding is natural and desired to open it up, too much and the lower spine takes a lot of the hits.

gice the fit some time, and then go back for a tune-up/readjust - should automatically have been part of the package - nothing ever gets fully resolved thru just 1 or even 2 attempts...
finding the leg length differences - A HUGE find!

let us know how things progress... we all learn from each other

I've seen Soulfly 4 times and I saw Sepultura this past friday! Awesome shows. I gotta go to a Cavalera Conspiracy show now. Max and Iggor are my favorites.

The adjustment of the bars in the stem and the placement of the hoods can be all or part of the problem...not to mention differences in arm length as well

Yeah your 100% right. My fitter said I need to get 5-6 rides in and schedule another appointment to see where else we can go. I knew going in that it would take a few sessions, I was just disappointed that the hand numbness didnt improve. On a plus side my bum and legs feel much better and stronger. We made adjustments to stem length/height on getting my back and shoulders in a good position. He said that I have very good flexability and was stumped that I had so much weight on my hands. After a few minutes of pedaling I could raise my hands and you would see red marks from the bars. I make an effort to keep my arms and grip relaxed and my elbows down. I'm gonna go for another ride tonight and go from there. I'm just frustrated feeling that I cant go more than 10 miles without pain. :(

Read this excellent bike fit article. http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

Especially the part about fore-aft saddle position. Then try his test with taking your hands off the bars (preferrably with the bike on a trainer) and see how much you fall forward. It sounds to me like you may have too much weight on your hands. The goal may be to not fall forward at all which means you have little weight on your hands.

Just for clarification, your "Pro-fit" was actually a fit by someone that decided to call himself a pro. This has very little correlation with how much the guy knows about what he is doing or how to fit a bike to your preferences. That is the problem with bike fits. I have had much better luck with the above article than any bike fits I paid for.

I have a weak core but can ride for many hours comfortably once i used this article to fit my bike.

Its funny you mention the fore/aft position of the saddle. There is another thread on this and I've been working on that as well. i mentioned that to the fitter and while he agrees to an extent, the fit as a whole needs to be address. He has been fitting for I think he said about 18 yrs and he is a certified Specialized BG fitter. He came recommened from members on this site. As far as a weak core, I wouldnt think that I would have one. I've always been athletic and played Ice hockey for years and rode motoX all my life. I'm a little perplexed.

So much of this bike fitting is personal preference. Some people would like more weight on their hands (ie. a slightly more forward saddle position). In your case though, this seems to cause problems.

Follow the advice in this article and see how well you balance as you take your hands off the bars. Then mark where the fitter had you saddle and then try it back a little and see if less weight on the bars solves your problem. This might require a slightly shorter stem but that is easy.

Bike fitting is often trial and error and related to personal preference. Again, I think this Peter White article is better than most of the "professional" advice I have received in the past.

I't pretty simple I think when you break it down set level saddle and height first get leg angles correct 3 and 6 O'clock then get forward and aft 3 o'clock knee over pedal spindle center.
Now bring bars to were your hands want to be naturally adjust bar height and stem length.
Basic starting point set.
Now fine tuning this would take a little more know how cleats on shoe's wedges if needed, check over first steps to see if you need to readjust anything.
Ride adjust as needed for personal preference but only after giving this new fit time to get use to.
I'm sure I've missed something but you get the idea, go see a good fitter (Good!) if needed it really does help in the long run even if you think all is good.

Interesting. Seems to suggest that a pro fit won't necessarily result in the "right" fit and that it's about trying things to see what works. also seems to suggest some fit aspects like KOPS is bunk. I'm going to play around a bit and see if moving my saddle fore or aft helps or hurts. Thanks for sharing.

there have been enough debates on white's article as well as the subject, so I'm not goin there
however, this article is prolly not the full extent of Peter's knowledge on the subject and may fall short in many areas.
IE - for unneeded and totally inaccurate statement - references about seat tube angle :"But again, the track sprinter spends very little time in the saddle." Anyone who has ever done one sprint on the track would never say this. 90% of the actual 'sprint' is done in the saddle. And, yes, track bikes do have steep seat tubes for just that reason, in saddle high rev spins.

Peter also goes ad-infinitum about leg differences, thigh and lower leg differences and his interpretation, crank length, yadda yadda yadda.
Yet nary a mention of how huge an affect torso length has on the entire package. Guess he forgot about that... or chose not to consider it significant
(and Hulley, if you are torso long - relatively - that will have a huge effect on your weight distribution - weight on hands...)
I don't disagree with Peter
But I don;t fully agree with all his assertions, or omissions.

bumpin the saddle back may work for some without ill consequences - good thing. But saddle fore/aft and height has very significant consequences for a rider who goes hard for long miles, will push gears when needed, as well as spin.
and since this is 'Road' forum, not touring or Rec & Fam, and since the OP, hulley, has a CR1 and is getting a performance Linskey, I have to assume he wants to ride it hard at times and for some miles... and prolly not gonna load on panniers or milk crate.
and why not consider another option - get a 'bent'
or is a bent not a bike?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with 'bent', nothing wrong with 'tour' or 'Fam & Rec', or 'Utility' - all equal members in the cycling roundtable, but this is 'road' and 'fast' is good, 'Hammer' happens and we all wish we had monster GUADS! :speedy:
Merlin55's post about bar rotation and lever position is definitely worth a look-see. but your fitter might have already done that...

I just got back from another 10 mile ride, my fingers were tingling at 4.5 miles and by 6.1 miles I stopped to shake my hands out. By the time I got home I was ready to get off the bike.......damn.
Before the fit the tingling wouldnt start until around 7.5-8 miles. Cyclezen, yes I tend to go as fast as I can pretty much the whole time, my wife hates riding with me! I often get out of the saddle to climb rather than gear down. I'm not saying I'm fast, I'm just saying I go as fast as I can. Whenever i go to the gym its to work out my legs so I can pedal stronger. You can see my frustration, I WANT to ride fast and for hours at a time. <--that sounded kinda weird...that too!

One possibility I guess is that you have a medical problem contributing to this. For example, it is possible that you have Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. I am a Physician and this is a pretty common problem. Do your hands go numb with other activity (driving, writing, at night, etc.)?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001469/

Going out of the box here do you happen to ride with your hand like this, palm of your hand on top of the bar were it curves like this? if so stop you have a nerve that runs along the palm near your thumb and riding with your palm here will cause a pain and cause your fingers to become numb.
Just something to think about that's way out of the box as far as what everyone is talking about.