Originally Posted by clink83

Or to allow people who have the fitness to climb rollers in 50/25 or 53/25 the ability to climb short hills in the big ring without taking the time to shift to the small ring, then back up and down the cassette as soon as they crest the hill.

Originally Posted by datlas

I agree you should avoid big-big combo, but that said I use it sometimes, briefly.

The trim function is your friend - I bet 95% of cyclists have no clue what trim is and how to use it BTW.

That said, if you are using this gear frequently you should rethink your strategy (as others have said).

Originally Posted by Psimet2001

Depending on a lot of factors it is usually possible to configure it to keep out the chain rub....but this is affeccted by the stiffness of the drivetrain and the frame, cable system/housing stiffness, etc...

I can usually find a way to make it work but I usually have to cheat it to the big/big getting a tiny bit of run in the 53x11....but let's face it I don't use that gear very often and when I do I am usually hurting too much or going to fast to care about chain rub. The big-big - while not recommended as it does put a lot of stress on the chain and leads to premature chain and cog wear - is an easy quick bailout for small kickers around here while racing or in groups. Being able to use it can mean using an 11-23 in a race - giving you back nice gear stepping in the middle where it counts and still giving you that 23 for a small kicker on the course.

Originally Posted by Nachoman

Before I got Di2 I used to love trim.

Originally Posted by datlas

I love trim but when I speak to other cyclists about it they look confused. Some people just don't get it.

Originally Posted by clink83

Then why did shimano redesign 7900/6700/5700 so you can ride big/big with no rub? I'm sorry, but that's BS. It will wear out your chain faster, but other than that there is no reason you cant use the whole cassette with the big ring these days if you dont get FD rub. Chain life is pretty short with 10speed chains anyways, even more so if have a compact, so why even worry about it?

Cross chaining in the small/small combos is another matter though, since your chain may hit the big ring due to the chain angle.

Originally Posted by pgjackson

Crap. My dilema is that my most comfortable gears are big ring in front, and then the biggest 3-4 rings on the back

Originally Posted by RTDub

Cross-chaining makes no sense. Sheldon's gear-inch calculator proves this.

Originally Posted by JoelS

Why the stigma attached to using the smaller chainring up front? I never did understand that.

Originally Posted by svtmike

This is how I set my bikes up. I rarely use the small ring on my Compacts -- if I am in big/big it's briefly on startup, so I don't sweat the brief cross-chaining. If I'm in big/small it means I'm going down a nice hill or have a whale of a tailwind (or both) and moving too fast to care about a little chain rub.

I use the small ring for really steep climbs or really stiff headwinds. Without those conditions, the small runs out of top speed too soon.

It's just easier and faster to deal most of the time with shifting the rear gears only, no matter how "wrong" anyone else finds that practice.

Originally Posted by svtmike

Riding in the big ring 98% of the time makes perfect sense, especially for a flatland rider. It's much faster to shift up and down the rear cassette than to monkey with both the front and rear.

All Sheldon's calculator "proves" is that there's overlap in the gearing.

Originally Posted by rm -rf

This won't help your situation, but Campagnolo front shifters have a series of click stops, so there's no specific high or low gear. Any rubbing can be fixed with one small click movement.

Originally Posted by RTDub

*sigh* Look closer and honestly tell me that cross-chaining is preferable and/or recommended as opposed to shifting correctly. Cite me an article on the benefits of cross-chaining. Also, the OP originally stated he had a triple, but later changed this to a double. Even so, it still makes no sense. The gear-inch calculator is there to show you that you don't have to do it all on one ring, but that you have better options that keep your chailine straight.

Originally Posted by RTDub

*sigh* Look closer and honestly tell me that cross-chaining is preferable and/or recommended as opposed to shifting correctly. Cite me an article on the benefits of cross-chaining. Also, the OP originally stated he had a triple, but later changed this to a double. Even so, it still makes no sense. The gear-inch calculator is there to show you that you don't have to do it all on one ring, but that you have better options that keep your chailine straight.

Originally Posted by svtmike

I've already explained why it's preferable to me. I prefer fast shifting up and down the rear cog to a straight chainline, the big ring/rear cassette covers 98% of my riding, and I understand there's a tradeoff in chain/cassette life. I don't need to cite any article.

Originally Posted by Psimet2001

+1 - in fact I sometimes wonder why we still insist on keeping the small ring on our crit rigs.

As for the group comments - you can trim in Shimano and SRAM just fine, but trimming is a PITA as well. I can usually get SRAM and Shimano setups to operate with minimal to no rubbing without having to utilize the trim. This is what I was referring to before.

Here's the kicker...No one else has to agree with how we ride and shift around here. If you were here.....you'd eventually end up doing exactly the same. The terrain brings out these shifting habits.

Originally Posted by pgjackson

Maybe I've been doing it all wrong (only been riding for about 7 months). I have been trying to stay as much as possible on the big ring. Using the small ring has only been a last resort when going up hills (the shift of shame). So, instead of using the big-big combo I should be using a small-medium combo?

Originally Posted by rankin116

In other people's defense, you are specifically talking about race situations, right? Would you cross-chain while doing a 20min interval? Race situations are different, you do what you need to. But when out training, why put the added stress and (perhaps) reduced longevity on your gear?

Originally Posted by rankin116

In other people's defense, you are specifically talking about race situations, right? Would you cross-chain while doing a 20min interval? Race situations are different, you do what you need to. But when out training, why put the added stress and (perhaps) reduced longevity on your gear?

Originally Posted by datlas

I love trim but when I speak to other cyclists about it they look confused. Some people just don't get it.

Originally Posted by svtmike

I don't race, but I do group rides. We all (my group, that is) shift this way. The "added stress" and "reduced longevity" is more theoretical and common sensical than tangible (in other words, I can't tell you how many miles of cassette/chain life it costs), but there definitely is a tangible benefit to a single snick of the rear derailleur vs. shifting the front derailleur and messing around with a 4 or 5 cog jump in the back when you've got guys 6" off your front and back wheels in a fast-moving paceline.

That's what my shift habits are tuned for, and I don't change them when I'm riding solo.

Don't take this to mean that I think you shouldn't shift your front more often than I do and try to keep your chainline straight. Different strokes.

Originally Posted by Psimet2001

Hmmmm....don't know if I can answer that.

1. Yes I am talking about racing....but also training....but training where you are essentially racing....
2. You can't find anywhere are here where you would be in a cross-chained gear for 20 minutes....but yes if that were the case I would definitely shift the front and find the right cog.

It's totally habit brought about from riding/racing style and terrain.

Prime example - our group ride route is considered very hilly for this area. I know exactly which ones I can nail still in the big ring - knowing I might have to cross-chain for a bit towards the end of the climb. I also know the two that require the small ring. As a result we shift way in advance of the hill and then are just shifting the rear anyway.