Ok, after all this discussion, this recreational rider now understands what it means with the friction shifter I am using 99% of the time I ride (I'm so ancient I have levers on the down tube). I guess I have understood trim for decades, just never knew there was a word for it. What this recreational rider doesn't understand is the compensation mechanism with indexed shifting. Perhaps that is because my riding is REALLY recreational when I'm on a bike with indexed shifting, either a borrowed bike or the hybrid bike I inherited from a friend, that is mostly used by my son. In those casual riding situations with an indexed shifter, when I hear the chain rubbing, I try shifting away from that gear and shifting back, and if that fails to stop the rubbing, I just stop using that gear. That is a pretty crappy compensation mechanism, but since I almost never use indexed shifting, and never use it on any strenuous ride, I don't bother to understand what I am doing.

I never knew this was such a complicated issue - kind of like asking "How many riders know that brakes slow your bike down?"

I never had a problem with it. At any rate; I ride Di2 now - so it's a non-issue.

Unless you have the old indexed QS shifters, in which case you're stuck with limited trim options

Brakes slow you down? Who knew!!?!

I thought they made cycling shoes' soles hard so you can slow down, fred-flintstone style!

I say less than 10% since I discovered it by accident....

In my experience, it depends on how you set the cable tension. My trim is usually useful for the little ring. But yes, there should be enough trim for both, although a properly tuned quality FD shouldn't need it at all nowadays.


If only. I can't tell you how many group rides or organized events where I found myself near somebody who was just riding along with the chain grinding up against the FD.

Which lends credence to my thesis that lots of cyclists are clueless about trim.

I asked a cyclist friend of mine this morning if he knew what trim was and he looked at me like I was crazy. And after I explained what it was, his expression didn't change.

100% of the people I ride with understand it and use it.

Yeah, but you ARE crazy.

Trim is an extra click or two in an index system that gets you halfway between gears to stop chain rub. Not all indexing systems and not all generations have it. My old 8 speed 105 didn't and I don't think my 9 speed Tiagra did either. Campy doesn't really need trim because it isn't really indexed on the front. It's a ratcheting friction system.

You want real trim? Go with a downtube friction shifter. Or Campy. Simple as that.

Do you know what a LONG reach that is when your leg length is out of proportion to the rest of your body?
I could never stand DT shifters because it was so awkward trying to reach them.
I do like the simplicity, but they just don't work for me.

What are you, a T-Rex? ;)

I can understand a preference for STI shifters but DT shifting really isn't that big a deal once you get use to it. Some of old folks actually learned to ride this way. Going back is...dare I say...like riding a bike.

Barend shifter for the front?

I'm 6'1" and have a 91cm cycling inseam.

I had them on a touring bike in the 90's.

Steve Erkel, is that you?

I figure at least a majority of *cyclists know how/what trim is.
*Cyclist = Individual who is familiar with some the intrinsics of riding a bicycle. Like using the right gears and knowing what it means to "drope the hamar" using "massive guads of stell".

I'm 6'0 and 89cm and don't have any trouble with DTs. But my arms are as long as my legs.

My arms are in proportion to my upper body.
Any men's size "large" shirt or jacket fits fine.
But with pants I always need to find a "tall" size, or a retailer that hems pants to order.

I have to find medium tall shirts and jackets. The sleeves are too short on mediums and larges are like wearing parachutes.

It's a long story but I bought the Pegoretti after I found the ride of a 2007 Orbea Orca unsatisfying. I thought about it for a bit and decided that, after reading a profile piece on Dario Pegoretti in Bicycling Magazine, the aesthetic of a Pegoretti just suited me better. I'm really happy with my Marcelo!

The Calfee was sort of an accident. I bid on the frame on eBay not expecting to win but I did. I then searched for a donor bike and found another excellent deal on eBay: a 2007 Salza La Raza with 2008 Campy Chorus, Mavic GP4 tubular wheels, and extra rim and 2 extra tires (Vittoria Corsa EVOs). All this for only $1200 BIN! I parted out what I could and ended up with a really nice 2nd bike for around $1100.

The Calfee is lighter than the Pegoretti but ride is not as nice. The power transfer on the Marcelo is way better than the Calfee as well.

Brother!

(maybe cousin, I am 6 feet with 98cm cycling inseam)

I can still use DT shifters though.

You mean Escape which came out at the same time, but only crippled shifters at the Centaur level and below.

Quick Shift was just a ratio change and Chorus/Record QS ergo levers retained the classic trim behavior.