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Advice about upgrading a groupset?

Old 05-08-11, 03:56 PM
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Advice about upgrading a groupset?

So I recently bought a Scott S30 bike https://www.rei.com/product/809916/scott-… and I am looking to upgrade the group set on it because the group set on it right now is crap, but I am not sure what to get. I have been having a lot of people to go me to get campy and others telling me to get shimano. Any advice on what I should get? And are the wheels that come stock on my bike even compatible with a campy set, or would I have to get new wheels too? A final question is here is a link to the campy set I have been looking at https://www.eurobikeparts.com/proddetail.… but there are a ton of different sizes for the crank (34/50, 39/53 etc) and a bunch of different sizes for the cassette as well and I have no idea what sizes to get. I live in an extremely hilly area with many steep hills and im not sure if certain sizes here would make climbing hills easier; any advice I would be beyond grateful for.
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Old 05-08-11, 04:03 PM
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I would prob save the money and try to get a 105 or rival bike.
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Old 05-08-11, 04:05 PM
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I don't think the second link is working (at least not for me).

Mind reposting it?
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Old 05-08-11, 04:10 PM
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Keep riding your bike, then come back to this forum and do some searches. Go to Sheldon Brown's ( https://www.sheldonbrown.com ) site and read all you can about each component of the bike. You'll learn the differences and advantages/disadvantages of the different cranksets, cassettes etc.

You got your first bike, this is the time to ride it and learn all you can before you go upgrading or replacing anything.
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Old 05-08-11, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ncrain1
So I recently bought a Scott S30 bike https://www.rei.com/product/809916/scott-… and I am looking to upgrade the group set on it because the group set on it right now is crap, but I am not sure what to get. I have been having a lot of people to go me to get campy and others telling me to get shimano. Any advice on what I should get? And are the wheels that come stock on my bike even compatible with a campy set, or would I have to get new wheels too? A final question is here is a link to the campy set I have been looking at https://www.eurobikeparts.com/proddetail.… but there are a ton of different sizes for the crank (34/50, 39/53 etc) and a bunch of different sizes for the cassette as well and I have no idea what sizes to get. I live in an extremely hilly area with many steep hills and im not sure if certain sizes here would make climbing hills easier; any advice I would be beyond grateful for.
Take it back and get another bike.
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Old 05-08-11, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GP
Take it back and get another bike.
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Old 05-08-11, 05:06 PM
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Bad link ... did you mean this: ?
https://www.rei.com/product/809916/sc...pact-bike-2011

Tiagra's not crap as far as I know, although I haven't used it.
What's the problem ? Poor adjustment or setup ?
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Old 05-08-11, 06:46 PM
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OP, why do you feel the group set is crap?

The S30 is a good entry level bike, which leads me to assume you're just starting out. What bike did you previously have that you can conclude the S30 groupo is so bad? Or did you read that somewhere?
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Old 05-08-11, 07:03 PM
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Sounds like that Cervelo guy who bought a $4k Cervelo and blames the cross chaining noises on his Rival group.
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Old 05-08-11, 07:15 PM
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Does it have Shimano 2200(8 speed) on it? if not you have nothing to gripe about. If you are dead set on getting something then,


SRAM.
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Old 05-08-11, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ncrain1
So I recently bought a Scott S30 bike https://www.rei.com/product/809916/scott-… and I am looking to upgrade the group set on it because the group set on it right now is crap, but I am not sure what to get. I have been having a lot of people to go me to get campy and others telling me to get shimano. Any advice on what I should get? And are the wheels that come stock on my bike even compatible with a campy set, or would I have to get new wheels too? A final question is here is a link to the campy set I have been looking at https://www.eurobikeparts.com/proddetail.… but there are a ton of different sizes for the crank (34/50, 39/53 etc) and a bunch of different sizes for the cassette as well and I have no idea what sizes to get. I live in an extremely hilly area with many steep hills and im not sure if certain sizes here would make climbing hills easier; any advice I would be beyond grateful for.
In answer to your questions: Campy and Shimano are not easily interchangeable; i.e., if you switch from one to the other, you're getting new wheels. There are religious debates regarding which one is "superior". Suffice it to say, they both work really well.

Those numbers (i.e., 39/53, 34/50) specify the number of teeth on the front gears. What you want depends on your fitness level, riding goals, terrain, etc. However, the lower the number in the front, the easier it is to up hill.

Switching over the entire groupset is expensive, especially when you factor in the labor cost a shop is going to charge to do all the work.

What makes the current group set "crap"? Is it shifting poorly? Braking poorly?
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Old 05-08-11, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by K&K_Dad
Does it have Shimano 2200(8 speed) on it? if not you have nothing to gripe about. If you are dead set on getting something then,


SRAM.


agree with the above. if you are a new rider you would probably not notice a big enough difference if any. just ride what you have. when you are ready to upgrade you will know it and know what you want and will be able to appreciate it more.
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Old 05-08-11, 07:38 PM
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I have replaced almost everything on my CAAD9 except the grouppo. It came with a tiagra, and still has it. Its not only NOT junk, but its a very good, dependable workhorse of a group set. I've done centuries, metric centuries, and several races with mine.

That being said, certainly swap it out if you want to. Be careful to upgrade too much on an entry level bike though, you'll wind up in a situation where the parts are worth more than the whole.

Last edited by rangerdavid; 05-08-11 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 05-08-11, 07:47 PM
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I would only trade or get another bike if the fit was wrong, the geometry wrong, or something along those lines. I wouldn't put money into it, I'd ride it, or take the big bucks you're going to spend and put it in your "new bike" fund and keep this one in the future as a trainer bike or "rainy day bike"
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Old 05-08-11, 07:49 PM
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I am a Campy guy but there is nothing wrong with Shimano. There are fundamental differences between the two groupsets. Campy is rebuildable if that matters to you but the big difference between Shimano and Campy is the shifters. Shimano uses the brake lever to shift gears. You have two shifters with Shimano. Campy has one shifter, which is not the brake lever, and it has a thumb button for shifting into a harder gear. Chorus and above, can shift five gears by pushing the button and holding it down for a second. People either like the thumb button or hate it, I love it.

You do not necessarily need to replace your wheels, but if you keep them you will need a hub and the wheels while need to be redished. This would probably cost you about $150 for the rear wheel. You will not need to do anything with the front. However, if you have Shimano wheels you may not be able to redish them. I don't think you can put a Campy hub on a Shimano wheel.

Depending on your fitness level and riding conditions you can get either a compact or standard crank. A compact with either a 12/27 or 12/29 (Campy cassette) will most likely be your options. You will also need to know your crank length. What is your height? I use a 175mm. I think Shimano can go to 180MM.

The best prices on Campy groups are from a UK website called Shiny Bikes.
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Old 05-08-11, 08:05 PM
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I personally like my Tiagra components. Like anything if you keep them tuned and maintained they will do what you need them too. I may upgrade some parts here and there as I go, but for general non-racing, riding the Tiagras are fine.
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Old 05-08-11, 08:17 PM
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Until you put a year or so on that bike, with 10k miles, enjoy learning to dial in tiagra and relax. In the meantime, save up your duckets to buy a 105 bike and continue to lament the great bikes that will always be out there with promises of being better.
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Old 05-08-11, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Laminarman
I would only trade or get another bike if the fit was wrong, the geometry wrong, or something along those lines. I wouldn't put money into it, I'd ride it, or take the big bucks you're going to spend and put it in your "new bike" fund and keep this one in the future as a trainer bike or "rainy day bike"
That's what I did with my Specialized Allez.

Seems the OP has fallen into the newbie mindset that only certain level of components/brands are "good" and the rest "crap". Don't. Otherwise, poseur comes to mind.
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Old 05-09-11, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ncrain1
So I recently bought a Scott S30 bike https://www.rei.com/product/809916/scott-& and I am looking to upgrade the group set on it because the group set on it right now is crap, but I am not sure what to get. I have been having a lot of people to go me to get campy and others telling me to get shimano. Any advice on what I should get?
Campagnolo without Powershift or Escape shifters; either 10 (triple crank options which just work and $40 nickel-plated chrome Veloce cassettes when you buy from the UK; this implies getting new-old-stock 10 speed Ultrashift levers or current production Record/Chorus Quick Shift second generation levers) or 11 (you'd need to monkey with the rear derailleur cable attachment to change the ratio if you wanted to move to a long cage triple derailleur, cassettes are $120, and you need Chorus level shifters or better for $250). Powershift and Escape are one cog smaller and don't have the left shifter trim options. I bought a set of 2010 Centaur levers before getting 10 speed shifting that works like Campagnolo ergo levers have for nearly two decades became an expensive parts bin (you could pair a $250 set of Chorus Ultrashift 11 levers with a $100 10 speed right mechanism) or Ebay exercise (used 10 speed Chorus/Record levers plus the cable set included with new levers cost as much as new ones).

The right shifter goes five cogs smaller and three bigger so even with a compact it's one motion to go from your big ring to the next gear on the small ring, the brake releases are on the hoods and increase lever travel so when you put a slight bend in a wheel you just hit the button and keep riding. The left shifter has a lot of trim options so you can make all the gear combinations noise-free even with short chain stays and sub-optimal setup. Small parts availability is still better than with other brands (You can replace current shift mechanisms for $100 apart from brake blade/mount/hood. While not as good as buying a couple of $5 springs and rebuilding as with first/second generation levers it doesn't hurt as much as a new lever at retail prices).

All the front shifters will run a triple if you want both low gears and tight cogs - instead of 50-34 x 11-12-13-15-17-19-22-25-28-32 which many roadies would find egregious (there isn't even a 14 cog between 13 and 15, let alone a 16 which many want and 18 that some do) you can run 53-39-24 x 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23.

And are the wheels that come stock on my bike even compatible with a campy set,
You might be able to get Campagnolo freehubs (say for Mavic wheels). A shiftmate can pair a Campagnolo shifter to a Shimano derailleur.

but there are a ton of different sizes for the crank (34/50, 39/53 etc) and a bunch of different sizes for the cassette as well and I have no idea what sizes to get. I live in an extremely hilly area with many steep hills and im not sure if certain sizes here would make climbing hills easier; any advice I would be beyond grateful for.
To answer that you really need to quantify how much you weigh, how steep and long the hills are, post your mean maximal power curve from a power meter, describe your preferred cadence range and what happens when you go out side it (you get dropped after spending more than five minutes at your one hour power and under 70 RPM, you can't have hard threshold rides two days in a row when dropping to 80 RPM, you get dropped on extended down-hills because you can't spin 100 RPM, you just don't like it).

I'd opt for a triple crank if I couldn't have one tooth jumps from my chosen starting cog to the 19. With 10 cogs that gets you a 21 big cog if you start with an 11, 23 with a 12, and 25/26 with a 13. 11 speeds gets you an ending cog one size bigger but only 11 and 12 starting cogs are available. I'd still get a triple if there wasn't reasonable overlap between the chain rings - while 50-34x13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23 9 speed was enough for anything in the Colorado Rockies only 50x21 and 34x14 overlap apart from the fully cross-chained combinations so there are wind/terrain/fatigue/rest-day combinations which involve a lot of double shifting with two right shifter wiggles when moving to the big ring. 46-36x12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25 11 speed would be pretty nice if I still weighed 150 pounds.

I'd also run a 13 starting cog with fewer than 11 speeds (where there isn't a choice). If you're not strong enough to spin a 34x28 up anything you encounter you can't make good use of a 50x11 or 50x12 either (50x13 is still a 30 MPH cruising gear (if you need to go faster down hill, just tuck) and 35 MPH sprinting gear, but you'll probably like the extra cogs in the middle. If you're a 150 pound guy with a lot of hard miles in your legs, spinning 34x21 up anything still doesn't imply the strength needed for that.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 05-09-11 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 05-09-11, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mpath
OP, why do you feel the group set is crap?
This is the $64,000 question.
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Old 05-09-11, 12:26 PM
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If you are willing to spend $1000 upgrading the groupo, why didn't you spend $1000 more on the bike and get something better OVERALL?

Perhaps, a spouse was watching the original purchase but would not not notice a change of groupo???? Still you need to wait and wait and wait some more before jumping on this idea.
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Old 05-09-11, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by creativepart
If you are willing to spend $1000 upgrading the groupo, why didn't you spend $1000 more on the bike and get something better OVERALL?
An even better question.
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Old 05-09-11, 12:41 PM
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I'm going to guess that any problems you are having with the Tiagra groupo is likely not the groupo. My last back had Shimano 2300 8sp. It wasn't anything fancy, but it worked just fine - I did a 3 day 200+ mi tour on it and had a great ride.
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