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Originally Posted by caloso
Yeah, but I woudn't buy a bike named for a car, just out of principle.
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If only target made singlespeeds, road bike geometry singlespeeds with brakes would firstly make the bikes cheaper to make, and thus better quality for the money, and the the bikes would be a joy to ride, and would really get kids hooked into biking. All the problems that make cheap bikes stuff up, (mainly shifting, derailleur, suspension) would be gotten rid of.
The new cruisers, are a step in the right direction, (singlespeed), but also a step in the wrong direction (making bikes look cool, rather than functional). Singlespeeds at kmart are only a dream though... |
Originally Posted by manual_overide
puegot?
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After reading this thread earlier today, I went to Target this afternoon. Sitting in a bike rack outside (unlocked!) was a perfect example, a cheapo full-suspension mountain bike that had probably come from that very store. (Do they have homing instincts?)
Anyway, this particular bike caught my eye because, along with the bouncy front and rear, it had a big ol' puffy gel saddle about the size of a couch cushion. I mean, my girlfriend's mother has a saddle like that on her bike, but she's 72! I guess whoever owns this one is REALLY into comfort...or those mountain bikers just aren't nearly as tough as I thought. |
I tried to adjust brakes on a Mart bike, the parts were so poorly made it was impossible. I have seen kids come into the bike shop with loose seats and handlebars right from the store. One little girl had a loose seat and handlebar. It's a miracle she did not get hurt, she could barely ride the bike. The parents had no idea, they sent her out for a ride. I'm afraid some kids will, or are, getting hurt.
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Originally Posted by lisitsa
If only target made singlespeeds, road bike geometry singlespeeds with brakes would firstly make the bikes cheaper to make, and thus better quality for the money, and the the bikes would be a joy to ride, and would really get kids hooked into biking. All the problems that make cheap bikes stuff up, (mainly shifting, derailleur, suspension) would be gotten rid of.
The new cruisers, are a step in the right direction, (singlespeed), but also a step in the wrong direction (making bikes look cool, rather than functional). Singlespeeds at kmart are only a dream though... had a couple of loose parts on it. |
Originally Posted by gpsblake
A few years ago, I bought a $58 Roadmaster from Walmart and rode it from Columbia, SC to Raleigh, NC after losing my job. Stuck a cheap rack on the back and away I went. Other than an initial adjustment on the brakes, I had no problems whatsoever with it. It was heavy and slow as molasses but I did the 250 mile ride in 4 days. I donated the bike to Goodwill when I arrived in Raleigh.
In the town I live at, nearly all the bikes I see being used for errands and such are xMart bikes. At two LBS's I have checked, I have yet to find a single bicycle that my daughter was interested in. And I totally understand why. Like it or not, xMart bikes appeal to kids. I bought my hybrid bike at Dick's Sporting Goods that I use for touring and daily riding where they do adjustments and such for up to one year after the purchase. I have several thousand miles on it and other than one flat,two tires, and cable adjustments, no problems with it. Dick's is above the xMART bikes is that they usually have someone who is knowledgable about bicycles. What I am saying is cheap bikes do have a market with the poor and with kids. I know on bikeforums.net, cheap bikes get frowned upon. I strongly recommend Dick's Sporting Goods if a cheap bike is all you can afford based just on my personal experience. Cheers and Happy Riding, I have to agree with you, some kids and probably a few grownups would not have a bike if not for the cheap bikes at dept. stores. The cheap bikes do have a market with the poor or those unwilling to buy from a LBS. The main complaint with these cheap bikes is poor assembly, if these same bikes were assembled at the LBS, would they be better bikes? One of the local LBS in my town will do a tuneup on a xmark bike for $35 and he told me what he finds is most have little grease. So I guess a person who has some skills at bike assmebly may have a different opinion of cheap bikes than most of us have. After learning more about bikes here and at my local LBS, I will be getting a Lemond soon but I will never forget all the fun I had on the cheap bikes I got thru the years for Christmas from my parents who spent what they could afford for a kid who rode it and did not know any better LOL. A lot of good advice has been given to visitors to this forum who may not have a lot of bike knowledge especially the idea to check Salvation Army stores, etc for used bikes if you cannot afford a LBS bike. While I choose to get a good bike from my LBS, I will never look down on those who ride xmark bikes because thats what I used to ride. Cycling is fun and I hope more people could enjoy it. |
The Target Schwinns are great -- better than some "real" Schwinns, IMO. I have some comments here.
Our local Target stores are selling a very odd unbranded "road" bike, though. Aluminum slope-tube frame, steel stem, steel handlebar, genuine nuts for both hubs: $99. It feels like it weighs about 35 pounds ... looks like it's running a 42/14 top gear. |
Target and Walmart bikes are good if you are like the average consumer who buys a bike, rides it for a couple days and then leaves it in the garage or sitting out in the yard for the rest of it's life. If you actually plan to ride a lot then you need a bike from a LBS. (local bike shop)
There are plenty of good bike shop bikes gathering dust in garages. So if you don't plan to ride much, go with the Target bikes. When comparing prices between X-mart and bike shops, keep this in mind: If you spend $150 on a bike at Target, it is basically worth ZERO when you walk out the door with it. Try and resell it a year later and you won't get squat for it. Good bike shop bikes like Trek, and Cannondale etc. will hold there value pretty well. It is not uncommon to see 1 yr old bikes on Ebay selling for more than they were sold for originally in a bike shop. |
Target was selling a one speed Schwinn beach cruiser for around $150. Some bikes shops in my area sell similar beach cruisers for $160 to $175, so the Target "discount" was not significant.
And this is EXACTLY the type of bike Target should sell. When the bike comes out of the box, all the clerk needs to do is put on the front wheel, and maybe the handlebars. Put in air. Ready to go. If discount stores would sell sturdy one speed bikes, with coaster brakes, and NO other bike, they would be doing their customers a real favor. But, Target customers are also buying "dual suspension" bikes put together by a guy whose "regular" job is unpacking boxes. Very scary. Even with a one speed beach cruiser, a good bike shop will check to see if the wheel truing needed a "touch up", or if the wheel bearings need adjustment, or check whether the factory forgot to put grease in the head-set. And, a bike shop will take care of any problems that come up after a few weeks or months of riding. Valuable services that are well worth paying an extra $50 or so. |
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
And this is EXACTLY the type of bike Target should sell. When the bike comes out of the box, all the clerk needs to do is put on the front wheel, and maybe the handlebars. Put in air. Ready to go. If discount stores would sell sturdy one speed bikes, with coaster brakes, and NO other bike, they would be doing their customers a real favor. But, Target customers are also buying "dual suspension" bikes put together by a guy whose "regular" job is unpacking boxes. Very scary.
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Don't buy a Daihatsu either. Wait until you can afford a Ferrari.
Don't rent an apartment either. Wait until you can afford a McMansion. Instead of eating bologna, wait until you can afford caviar. Don't play Fish or Spades or Hearts. Wait until you are a professional Poker player. Why buy a 13 inch TV when you can save for a 62 inch flat plasma HDTV? Why cook a meal? Wait until you can hire a chef! X-marts sell hundreds of thousands of bikes every year. They are clearly satisfying a demand. That's the way the system works. People buying a bike for a kid, which will likely be undersized, damaged or lost while the kid grows each year are probably right to buy an x-mart, or used bike. You ever try to talk quality and workmanship to a kid when you are competing with a Spiderman or Dora the Explorer logo? I think in some ways the expression "To each their own" implies a certain amount of freedom and mutual respect. :) |
I was under the impression that schwinn either went belly up, or sold out. The big China bike conglomerate bought the rights to the name, and can put it on anything they want. Same with Mongoose.
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Originally Posted by webist
Don't buy a Daihatsu either. Wait until you can afford a Ferrari.
Don't rent an apartment either. Wait until you can afford a McMansion. Instead of eating bologna, wait until you can afford caviar. Don't play Fish or Spades or Hearts. Wait until you are a professional Poker player. Why buy a 13 inch TV when you can save for a 62 inch flat plasma HDTV? Why cook a meal? Wait until you can hire a chef! X-marts sell hundreds of thousands of bikes every year. They are clearly satisfying a demand. That's the way the system works. People buying a bike for a kid, which will likely be undersized, damaged or lost while the kid grows each year are probably right to buy an x-mart, or used bike. You ever try to talk quality and workmanship to a kid when you are competing with a Spiderman or Dora the Explorer logo? I think in some ways the expression "To each their own" implies a certain amount of freedom and mutual respect. :) |
Originally Posted by webist
I think in some ways the expression "To each their own" implies a certain amount of freedom and mutual respect. :)
Everyone has the right to ignore this advice. I am sure plenty do. My username comes from the fact that i started out with a "Schwinn" ranger from target a couple of years ago. I got advice from everyone on here to get a better bike. After a few rides I was smart enough to see what they were saying. 4 LBS bikes and 10,000 or so miles later and i am very grateful for that advice. I am thankful for the target bike in the respect that it got me into cycling. I am even more grateful to the members that told me, i would likely appreciate a better bike. |
The average bicycle coming to the Big Box stores are made in mainland China and cost on the average of $18 wholesale (source: Bicycle Retailer and Industry News).
Quality and lowest bidding are not compatible. |
Originally Posted by zonatandem
The average bicycle coming to the Big Box stores are made in mainland China and cost on the average of $18 wholesale (source: Bicycle Retailer and Industry News).
Quality and lowest bidding are not compatible. The European Union has barred the entry of low-cost communist made bikes. Their "experts" say that the communists are selling the bikes below cost. The bikes cost about $50 to build, but wholesale at $18. The goal of the communists is to destroy the bike building industry in Europe (which still builds millions of bikes per year) by underpricing German, French, and Dutch factories. After those factories have been destroyed, the Chinese will "own" the market, and can charge substantially higher prices. In the USA, that strategy worked. First, communist-made bikes took over the $25 to $75 market. Than the $75 to $200 market. Now, they are becoming dominant in the $200 to $400 market. Inch by inch, they have destroyed American companies and American jobs. American bike makers went from building more than five million bikes per year in 1980, to far less than one million bikes per year today. |
The way I see it:
you want a toy, go to a toy store you want a bike, go to a bike shop ...you want a toy bike?...how nice a toy do you want? For transportation, some of those x-mart bikes are scary...at least some of them have v-brakes now. |
Originally Posted by catatonic
For transportation, some of those x-mart bikes are scary...at least some of them have v-brakes now.
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By reading first third of this thread, it becomes obvious that no one talks out of experience, instead people talk out of their ***es.
A lot of it is psychological... just another stereotype. You get what you pay for, ignoring the possibility of a good deal, or other economical aspects of retail business or labor costs in Asia. Another psychological trend, however, is that once person used a high-end bicycle, it is very hard to agree to buy a simplier, less comfortable or worse-looking bicycle that is sold at a department store. So, my bottom line is, there is no objective information to this day about how reliable or well-built Target (or Wal-Mart) bikes are, simply because no one bothered to buy one, maintain and use it to observe and test its real capabilities. Anyway, from my experiences, I would suggest you to save some disappointment and try to find a name brand used bike in bicycle shop or elsewhere, as opposed to new bicycle from Target. P.S. I currently don't own any bike. ;) |
I have some experience with "department store" bikes and it's not good. 25 years ago I had a part time job in a department store. An upmarket one by the way and since I had the experience of working on my own racing bike I was given the job of assembling these cheaply made bikes. Now the first thing that left an impression on me was that in the scheme of things I only assembled a fraction of them and most of them were assembled by people who had no more experience than they new which end of a screwdriver to use. I took my own tools to work and the area I put most attention to was adjusting the brakes properly. Out of the box they were pretty bad.
Apart from assembly issues I had a number of reports from the sales staff that a number of bikes were coming back because pedals had snapped. Now I have ridden some pretty cheap bikes in my time but they were solidy built in quality factories. Malvern Star, Speedwell and a Protour for the Australians and they soldiered on. These day's I ride a Giant and other Tiwanese built bikes and they run superbly so it's not anything to do with the Chinese people. It's about what our western captains of industry are prepared to pay for. Oh and the customers of course. Regards, AnthonyG |
Why don't you just go to an LBS and buy one of their cheaper bikes? At my LBS's, they sell some bikes for about $200-250. Personally, I'd rather pay $50 more for a bike with a better frame and components that is made by a company like Trek, Raleigh, KHS, etc. with the assembly quality and service of an LBS.
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P.S. I currently don't own any bike. ;) |
>>So, my bottom line is, there is no objective information to this day about how reliable or well-built Target (or Wal-Mart) bikes are, simply because no one bothered to buy one, maintain and use it to observe and test its real capabilities.<<
Well, I, for one, am busy doing some research for you folks. ;) . For more background you can see my unpopular comments on Target Schwinns (and "Schwinns" only) in the "Why X-mart Bikes Suck" thread in the Mountain Biking section. We have four that have been running like champs. I promise to report it here when the first one self destructs or bends all out of adjustment or falls victim to any of the other scary things some members of the LBS Faction have been spinning 'round here. |
Originally Posted by Ranger
Well at least you aren't talking out of your azz.
I dont see what you are saying with it? :o My Schwinn Traveler Road bike got stolen 6 days ago... I had it for 2 years and rode it daily |
Originally Posted by AnthonyG
I have some experience with "department store" bikes and it's not good. 25 years ago I had a part time job in a department store.
Regards, AnthonyG Anthony, thanks for sharing your experiences, but I think this is a bit outdated. Technology changed significantly. Think of a typical carburated car of the 1980 and a car of 2005 with VVTI and teptronic transmission, satellite navigation/radio.dvd player. The bicycle chain design changed since 1980, not to mention brakes, derailleurs, etc... |
My huffy lasted for years, but then again, other generic ones that I've gotten have died pretty quickly. My friend has a full suspension one that he's had for a couple of years now. The suspension actually works quite well, but the rims are soft, causing them to bend super easily, the calipers are messed up, and the shifting is clunky (when it works). He still uses it though, and enjoys being able to ride. He's frustrated with it, but can't afford anything else. An X-mart bike is better than no bike, IMO.
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I'd do as another mentioned in a previous page......look for a good used vintage road racer. You can find one in the most unexpected of places. If you dont mind putting an extra 50.00 (if you dont mind twisting a wrench...it isnt rocket science) into fresh tires/tubes/tire repair equip, new handlebar tape etc this will be a very rewarding experience.
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Originally Posted by Inoplanetyanin
Anthony, thanks for sharing your experiences, but I think this is a bit outdated.
Technology changed significantly. Think of a typical carburated car of the 1980 and a car of 2005 with VVTI and teptronic transmission, satellite navigation/radio.dvd player. The bicycle chain design changed since 1980, not to mention brakes, derailleurs, etc... Well things have changed for sure but I haven''t seen the changes making the bikes more reliable. I will say that on the plus side cheap bikes with v-brakes and alloy rims is deffinitely a step forward but cheap cranks and pedals are just as bad as they ever were. Back then drive trains were 10 speed max with thicker chains and childrens bikes in paticular were single speed coaster brake setups that were pretty solid except when cranks and pedals would break on cheap models. These day's cheap front suspension units can be a paticular source of concern and I've seen a number of recalls of these poorly built units. Regards, AnthonyG |
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