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Tell me about pedal-based power meters...?

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Tell me about pedal-based power meters...?

Old 05-29-11, 12:00 PM
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Tell me about pedal-based power meters...?

When does your crystal ball say they'll be available? Will the data they have above and beyond what today's power meters give be reliable? Which foot is dominant, when, by how much, etc? Are they going to be cheaper, since you'll be able to keep riding your current wheels without changing anything about them?

I have an ulterior motive. I'm pretty happy with my SPD fred pedals now that I have a pair of carbon shoes. I like to stop on long rides, and do a bit of walking around. I got my shoes used a year ago, though, and it's going to be time to get another pair before long. REI has a 20 % off coupon right now, and that comes to a lot on a pair of carbon cycling shoes. Before I invest in a set of CF mountain shoes, am I going to regret it in the next year or two?
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Old 05-29-11, 12:10 PM
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[QUOTE=Seattle Forrest;12710173]When does your crystal ball say they'll be available? Initial versions this year.

Will the data they have above and beyond what today's power meters give be reliable?
It should be, although the more important question is: Is the data useful?

Which foot is dominant, when, by how much, etc?
The answers to these questions are of questionable value.
Are they going to be cheaper, since you'll be able to keep riding your current wheels without changing anything about them?
No, I don't see them being cheaper. They will be lighter but I'm not sure why they would price them below the current market price for power meters. You can buy reasonably priced used wired SRMs if you want to use multiple wheel sets.

I have an ulterior motive. I'm pretty happy with my SPD fred pedals now that I have a pair of carbon shoes. I like to stop on long rides, and do a bit of walking around. I got my shoes used a year ago, though, and it's going to be time to get another pair before long. REI has a 20 % off coupon right now, and that comes to a lot on a pair of carbon cycling shoes. Before I invest in a set of CF mountain shoes, am I going to regret it in the next year or two?
Buy the shoes. The early adopters of the new pedal based powermeters will most likely already have at least one powermeter. Let them sort out the bugs and teething pains.
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Old 05-29-11, 12:38 PM
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I have my doubts that they will work as well as the current technology out of the gate. I expect it will take some time before they have them perfected. I too would like to see them on the market because I like my wheels and I don't want to replace my crank.
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Old 05-29-11, 12:43 PM
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I don't think it's a good idea to measure power in the pedals because of the assymetry in the technique.
I doubt it can be cheaper than crank based systems since the axle of a pedal is smaller and thus the whole system will have to be even smaller and thus more expensive.
What's wrong with the existing crank or wheel based systems, apart from their price of course?
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Old 05-29-11, 01:13 PM
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Old 05-29-11, 02:30 PM
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I for one can barely wait for pedal-based power meters. However, I expect it will be at least a year before they're really out and have good firmware, longer than that to come down in price, and much longer before I can afford a set.

The advantages over current PM's include:
• Very easy to swap from bike to bike
• Almost no installation cost (vs building one into a wheel or BB)
• Shows the power of each foot individually (e.g. your left leg may be stronger than the right, and you can adjust/work on that issue)
• Can otherwise help develop a smooth stroke
• It might actually convince some people that contrary to common belief, no you don't apply power on the upstroke when clipped in

They won't be cheaper any time soon though. In fact, the cost of the shoes is kind of a pittance compared to the PM costs. So, I wouldn't wait for it.
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Old 05-29-11, 02:33 PM
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I'll wager that the Garmin/Metrigear units - which are supposed to be released in June - will sell for $750 or less.
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Old 05-29-11, 02:37 PM
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i last read keo/polar in october, and brimm brothers 2012

no idea on cost yet
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Old 05-29-11, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by guadzilla
I'll wager that the Garmin/Metrigear units - which are supposed to be released in June - will sell for $750 or less.

I didn't know garmin was coming out with one, I guess I over looked them. I'll have to google.
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Old 05-29-11, 02:56 PM
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I'm curious but I will not be a beat user and pay top dollar for a system which will undoubtably have bugs that need to be worked out. I'll wait until it is more reliable, I can get feedback as to how well it compares to other PM systems, and the price comes down a bit. I would go with the Garmin route because they will have ANT+ and I like their head units over Polar.
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Old 05-29-11, 03:20 PM
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There is a wise saying in the software business that applies here. Don't ever buy version 1.0 of anything.

It will be 6-12 months after they first come out before the bugs are worked out.
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Old 05-29-11, 05:50 PM
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but i want them and need them before september
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Old 05-29-11, 07:21 PM
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Thanks, folks.
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Old 05-29-11, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by hammond9705
There is a wise saying in the software business that applies here. Don't ever buy version 1.0 of anything.
It will be 6-12 months after they first come out before the bugs are worked out.
With the Garmin atleast, I am cautiously hopeful that the kinks will not be too many. I am still not going to be the 1.0 buyer, but that's cos warranty is a b*tch for me, living as I do in the ass-end of the known inhabited universe.
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Old 05-30-11, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe
It might actually convince some people that contrary to common belief, no you don't apply power on the upstroke when clipped in
Don't just say that for a fact.
It depends on how long and how hard you ride.
When doing short steep hills I definately put power on the upstroke ... I obviously can't do that for long ... but nevertheless there is power being put.
For long endurance road races ... no ... it would be unwise to try it.
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Old 05-30-11, 09:47 AM
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Don't forget to add 1 year to the release date so you can wait and see if the product sucks. Ergomo, anyone?
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Old 05-30-11, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by guadzilla
I'll wager that the Garmin/Metrigear units
It doesn't get more Vaporware than this clusterfark.
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Old 05-30-11, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DrPete
Don't forget to add 1 year to the release date so you can wait and see if the product sucks.
Correct.
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Old 05-30-11, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
It doesn't get more Vaporware than this clusterfark.
Originally Posted by patentcad
Correct.
damn, another few moments of clarity from pcad. Methinks he has ran out vicodin. Someone prescribe him something to get him back to his old self
Originally Posted by AdelaaR
Don't just say that for a fact.
It depends on how long and how hard you ride.
When doing short steep hills I definately put power on the upstroke ... I obviously can't do that for long ... but nevertheless there is power being put.
For long endurance road races ... no ... it would be unwise to try it.
FWIW, i try to toe-down for my pedal stroke. As such, i should be applying power on the upstroke anyway. One other thing is that i actually find it harder to apply power on the upstroke on hills.
Originally Posted by Makel
but i want them and need them before september
what's in september?
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Old 05-30-11, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by AdelaaR
Don't just say that for a fact.
It is a fact. Sports docs like Andrew Pruitt have used pedal-based power meters for years. Even the most powerful pros do not apply power on the upstroke. (https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...yclists_137556)

What you're doing is basically lifting your leg, and that's it. This has been understood for years, which is why various manufacturers have experimented with elliptical chainrings and the like.
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Old 05-30-11, 09:08 PM
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Save yourself the headache and time and buy a Quarq
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Old 05-30-11, 11:24 PM
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How accurate is the iBike stuff? Measures incident wind, grade, and is calibrated for aerodynamic/mechanical losses I think...

Anyone got one?
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Old 05-31-11, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by radshark
How accurate is the iBike stuff? Measures incident wind, grade, and is calibrated for aerodynamic/mechanical losses I think...

Anyone got one?
If you're anal about all the coast-down tests and calibration stuff, they're reasonably accurate. Problem is they're a PITA to set up and calibrate.
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Old 05-31-11, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by gregf83
No, I don't see them being cheaper. They will be lighter but I'm not sure why they would price them below the current market price for power meters. You can buy reasonably priced used wired SRMs if you want to use multiple wheel sets.
Garmin is in the business of selling head units. They want to get power meters down to a price point where a much wider audience buys them, thereby expanding the market for their head units.

Garmin's already indicated that they plan to bring their power meter to market under $1000.

Garmin has experience building electronics in large scale, and hitting price points ( look what you can buy a GPS for your car for these days).

Given that a power meter is really not that complex a device, that electronics historically get much cheaper, and Garmin's ability to bring economies to this, I think there's a very good chance that the first Garmin power meters come in below $1000, and that a few years out, we'll have power meters below $500.
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Old 05-31-11, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
It doesn't get more Vaporware than this clusterfark.
You are indeed correct.

When this product was announced, I think I had a disagreement with someone (was it you?) about whether it was fair to call it vaporware or not... at that time, I had disagreed, but right now, it is just a gleam in the milkman's eye, to quote Edmund Black Adder.
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