ilovecycling

Hey everyone,

I recently built up a Look 595 frameset with Ultegra 6700. I'm coming off a Cervelo R3 with Rival. I was pretty happy with the performance of Rival, but there was a quirk with it that really annoyed me. Sometimes when trying to down shift into a larger cog the right shifter's internal ratchet wouldn't grab and instead of down shifting, it would up shift into a harder gear. It didn't happen often, but when it did it was kind of annoying. I figured Shimano's separated up and down shifting would eliminate this problem, as I never had a problem with the two-lever set up anyhow.

Little did I know, Ultegra 6700 has some quirks of its own. For starters, it's finicky as hell compared to SRAM. I used to run 105 (5600) last year and it was the same way. No matter how well it was adjusted, at times the chain would find a way to ride in between cogs and then jump to one or the other at the worst time (ie off the saddle). I used to think it was just "slipping," but now I know it's the result of the chain not being fully seated on a cog. This happens about as often as the accidental up shift issue I was having with SRAM, but this is more dangerous.

I also noticed another quirk that's equally as annoying as the one with SRAM. If I even barely brush the brake lever as I'm engaging the shift paddle, the shift paddle moves in too far and does absolutely nothing. In other words, it doesn't shift at all. The paddle just moves in and nothing happens.

Finally, under normal operation (ie no user error) the shift paddle just moves in too far before the up shift happens. It feels mushy and drawn out compared to SRAM's crisp feel. The stroke just isn't as quick as with SRAM.

I really wanted to give Shimano another try too. I've heard nothing but good things about 5700, 6700, & 7900 compared to the older stuff that didn't have hidden cable routing. I don't know what those people were on. The new stuff is just as lousy as the old stuff.

SRAM Red here I come...if Rival was ALMOST perfect, I think I'll be more than happy w/ Red.

Btw, the purpose of this thread was only to share my experiences. I figured maybe it could help someone who's deciding between Shimano and SRAM.

Cheers!

Elvo

Sounds like you need a better mechanic

datlas 

Agreed.

I ride with a guy who has two bikes, one is 6700 the other is SRAM Red and he likes them both about the same.

bobonker

I have 6700 and Force. I like the performance of Force and the ergonomics of 6700. Overall, 6700 gets the nod from me.

I do agree that the SRAM stuff is easier to tune up. The "window" for adjustment is large and pretty forgiving. When both setups are properly tuned up, they work great.

Bob

daven1986

I have shimano 105, have never adjusted the gears - only cleaned the drivetrain, and it shifts beautifully. Never had any of the issues you have described and have had the bike for 3 years with quite a few thousand miles on it.

ilovecycling

I knew that was coming. I'm not even going to waste my time trying to prove to someone online that I know how to work on my own bike. I built the entire bike myself without the help of anyone, and I did a perfect job with everything from cutting down the seat mast and steerer to installing the shifting components.

The shifting is as dialed in as it gets, but I'm extremely picky and I notice everything. I can't help it. Shimano is just very finicky compared to SRAM. There really isn't much to say other than that. The only other way I can described it is comparing it to handguns. Take a 1911 and a H&K USP and you will find that the 1911 is much more finicky in terms of how the slide has to be racked as well as what kind of ammo it can eat. At the same time, nobody can argue that the 1911 is one of the smoothest and nicest handguns to shoot. Kind of the same way that Shimano is very smooth in its operation compared to SRAM. That being said, I'd take a H&K over a 1911 any day if it came down to it.

M_FactorX19

ill also agree. i think i remember when you switched from sram to shimano and we said the same thing. the quirk you were referring to with SRAM was user error not the fault of the shifter. you just didnt push the lever in far enough plain and simple. there will be 2 (or more) clicks when you down shift (larger cog) and one click with up shifting (smaller cog). the issue you were having with the chain riding inbetween cogs with shimano was an adjustment issue. the part about hitting the brake lever when trying to shift with the lever though is legitimate but still really user error.

datlas 

Before you pitch your 6700, here's a trick that I did not know before until I got clued in by Rob/PSIMET:

When you dial in your RD, put it in the 2nd smallest cog. I had some major finickiness with my drivetrain but once I set it up that way all problems are solved. SRAM is linear so it doesn't matter what cog you use, but apparently not so with Shimano.

M_FactorX19

i do like your comparison to handguns and that really is true. i dont blame you for wanting to go back to sram and it is easier to adjust as stated above.

Elvo

Check out the regional forums here for a recommended mechanic and take your bike there so he can fine tune your derailers. Not worth having to sell the 6700 at a loss and fork out $1200 or whatever for Red, which will have the same "issue" as rival except you will "accidentally" shift even faster due to the zero loss on the RD.

DonDenver

User error. And what you feel in the title of this thread is confirmed.

grwoolf

Something is set up wrong, I put many thousands of miles in with 6700 it was always very precise and reliable with it's shifting.


Spot on. I switched my shimano 5600 bike to force/red a while back and loved the quicker action and single-lever approach. I basically stopped riding my bike with 6700 and ended up craig-listing the 6700 group in favor of another force/red setup.

I still think 6700 is a very good group and it's certainly not going to slow you down when set up properly.

ilovecycling

Here's the thing though..what do you consider "beautiful" shifting? Certainly, you haven't gone 3 years without a single mis-shift (eg shifting down 2 gears when you meant to do 3, etc). What I'm saying is one man's trash is another man's treasure. Maybe 105 shifts beautifully for you because you are coming from something that isn't considered as nice. Now I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm sure you get my point. Like I said before, I'm really picky. I bet my 6700 is shifting beautifully by a lot of people's standards, but not by mine. That's all I'm saying here.

I totally understand that any mechanical shifting system is never going to be accurate and flawless in all conditions like Di2 is, but since I don't want to spend $3k on just shifting components, I'll take the next best thing. Unfortunately, 6700 isn't it.

AdelaaR

Not wanting to hurt your feelings but isn't it strange though that you have certain issues with certain equipment ... and the rest of the world, who have also done "a perfect job" at installing them, do not have these same issues with exactly the same equipment?

AdelaaR

How often do you adjust your gears?
I haven't adjusted my gears for the last 1300 kilometers.

ilovecycling

I agree that the issue I was having with SRAM was totally my fault. Nothing but user error. I can't deny that. Same for hitting the brake lever on 6700. My goal is still to minimize the possibility of me doing either of these two things. Hence the reason I went to 6700 in the first place.

Yep, it's all in the Shimano installation and setup guide. It tells you to shift to the 2nd smallest cog and adjust the RD barrel adjuster until you just start to hear the chain try and jump to the 3rd cog after applying slight pressure on the shift (brake in this case) lever.

I've adjusted it 10x over - a little less and a little extra just to try out that entire "sweet spot" range of adjustment. It's shifting "perfectly," but not perfectly enough. The fact that my Look 595 has internal cable routing might have something to do with it. However, the internal cable routing is still rather clean (ie no sharp bends) and it still has a normal external cable stop on the chain stay, so the extremely sharp bend at the RD like the Trek Madone and Wilier GranTurismo suffer from isn't a possibility.

svtmike

Or not. I've got two bikes with 6700 (one compact double and one triple), and both shift very precisely and reliably, independent of my riding position and power output.

(Edit: make that three, counting a buddy's bike that I built this past winter.)

I've been riding Shimano so long that the lever ergonomics are second nature to me, but there definitely are differences between Shimano and SRAM in this regard and I can understand people developing a preference for either.

kayakdiver

Wow, my 6700 has been shifting perfect since last October.... I expect another thread in a few months about how Red sucks. All I can say is good luck with the new Red setup. Definition of insanity is doing the............

ilovecycling

Don't worry, you won't be able to hurt my feelings. I realize this is the internet and there's nothing I can say to get everyone to believe me when I say I know what I'm doing. Oh well, I can live with that.

I appreciate the comments though guys. Again, I didn't really start this thread to get help or seek advice. I just wanted to share my experiences and maybe vent a little in the process. Take it FWIW, I guess.

55/Rad

I had a new Ultegra group give me fits for a month until I figured out that the rear der hanger was slightly askew. I was ready to pitch the group until I figured that out. And the older group that was on the frame was far more forgiving of this imperfection due to its slop.

I had another brand new group give me fits - riding between cogs on certain shifts - until I realized there was a frozen link in the chain.

Point is, sometimes a "perfect" install isn't exactly perfect and problems can come from sights unseen.

55/Rad

wrr1020

+1.

ilovecycling

True. I don't mean to come off like some bike mechanic god that's incapable of making mistakes. That would be ridiculous.

However, there just aren't that many mistakes to be made when we're talking about installing a gruppo on a bike. It's pretty straight-forward, especially if you read the instructions like I did.

Btw, I double-checked all the links to make sure none were stiff.

M_FactorX19

my own not that often. last time was for cable and housing swap. i have worked as a mechanic at a bike shop so i have had plenty of experience adjusting both systems. SRAM is less forgiving than shimano to a point. one turn of the barrel adjuster on Shimano might make it not shift smooth or hesitate where it wouldnt really make a difference with SRAM.

Steve90068

just ride your bike. perhaps you would have liked the r3/rival if you spent more time riding that

ThinLine

Just today on my ride using Ultegra shifters 6600 w/ Dura Ace RD slipped a cog and went down to the lower gear.
My 2010 SRAM Force would not have done that. That being said, I would always take my Ult/DA setup over force any day. ................................I think.