Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Am I over emphasizing weight?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Am I over emphasizing weight?

Old 06-11-11, 07:52 PM
  #1  
djpfine
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
djpfine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 241

Bikes: Wilier Izoard, Tricross FG

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Am I over emphasizing weight?

Test rode the Ultegra-build Wilier Izoard XP today and thought it was a great bike. Did a few back to back rides with a Focus Izalco Team Replica and the Izoard more than held its own against the higher-price point Izalco.

However, I was shocked that the medium Izoard weighed in at a porky 19.0lbs without pedals! The Izalco, on the other hand, tipped the scales at 17.1lbs WITH my SPD pedals. The Giant Defy I'm upgrading from weighed 21.Xlbs with cages, a Road Morph pump, and saddle bag w/ flat repair tools.

If I didn't know the weight of both bikes, I would've said they were pretty close. I did not feel handicapped on the Izaord at all, and in fact, thought I climbed stronger on that bike. The 2lb difference does have me worried about longer rides though. I'm sure up some long climbs that extra weight would make a big difference.

I was planning on ordering a SRAM Rival Izoard from CC w/ Mavic K-10 wheels, but have been scared off by the heavy Izoard. I suppose with the K-10s an Rival groupset, I can expect that bike to weigh in at maybe 17.5-18lbs, but that still seems pretty heavy to me.

Do I get the Izoard because it just felt like a great bike, or go for a lower weight machine for performance?
djpfine is offline  
Old 06-11-11, 08:09 PM
  #2  
ericm979
Senior Member
 
ericm979's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains
Posts: 6,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
weight doesn't make as much of a difference as you think. It doesn't matter at all on the flat, only on climbs. Use this calculator to see what the difference would be on your favorite climb: https://noping.net/english/
ericm979 is offline  
Old 06-11-11, 08:51 PM
  #3  
Palomar01
SpeedFreak
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The OC
Posts: 652

Bikes: Motobecane Le Champ Ti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I like to think of weight this way: Pretend you're running up a hill with a pack. Say the pack weight 22 lbs. vs 18 lbs. Will you be able to tell the difference? 4 lbs.....probably not. 6 lbs......you may if the climb is long. 10 lbs....oh yeah!!

Same with bikes. Given equal riders and the same gear ratio the person on the lighter bike will find it easier to climb the lighter bike.
Palomar01 is offline  
Old 06-11-11, 09:08 PM
  #4  
StephenH
Uber Goober
 
StephenH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas area, Texas
Posts: 11,759
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked 37 Times in 28 Posts
I weigh myself in the mornings periodically, and my weight goes up and down more than two pounds.
__________________
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
StephenH is offline  
Old 06-11-11, 09:20 PM
  #5  
M_FactorX19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Northeast TN
Posts: 1,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
you could always save weight off the wilier.... if it is that much cheaper then right there is the extra cash to do so. if you shop right and smart you can save a lot of weight for very little money (in the beginning lol).

you also said you were thinking of ordering a different set up from CC that should come in at close to what the Focus weighed. so whats the problem? you wont notice a half a lb thats for sure and you already said you liked it better. i say go with the Wilier.
M_FactorX19 is offline  
Old 06-11-11, 09:31 PM
  #6  
urbanknight
Over the hill
 
urbanknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 23,170

Bikes: Giant Defy, Specialized Allez, Raleigh Pursuit tandem

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 351 Post(s)
Liked 381 Times in 238 Posts
Take how much you weigh and add it to the weight of the bike... then add the weight of your gear and bottles. Now that 2 lb comes out to be about a 1% difference.
__________________
It's like riding a bicycle
urbanknight is offline  
Old 06-11-11, 09:40 PM
  #7  
lechat
Senior Member
 
lechat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: s.e. tn.
Posts: 1,245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I like to think of weight this way: Pretend you're running up a hill with a pack. Say the pack weight 22 lbs. vs 18 lbs. Will you be able to tell the difference? 4 lbs.....probably not. 6 lbs......you may if the climb is long. 10 lbs....oh yeah!!

Seems like you could easily tell. Running up a hill is hard enough. 4 extra lbs would be a big difference.
lechat is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 05:20 AM
  #8  
carpediemracing 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,331

Bikes: Tsunami road bikes, Dolan DF4 track

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Liked 131 Times in 74 Posts
I've learned, kind of the hard way, that weight can make a difference, even on flatter terrain. However, if you're riding in a group, you can hide part of that difference. At my limit I notice that it takes longer for me to accelerate to speed with more weight (I'm 10-15 lbs heavier now than I was last year, but 10-15 lbs lighter than I was 3 years ago). Heavy wheels, like +2 lbs, make a difference in acceleration too (hubs/spokes virtually identical, difference in rims and tires).

Having said that, it's the body mass that makes the most difference, as others have said above.

My bike weighs about 1 lbs more than last year's bike, but due to its geometry (shorter stays), it feels more responsive. If I put the heavy wheels on, it feels much less responsive, esp when accelerating out of the saddle.

If I get shelled on a climb it's not because of the 1 lbs, it's because of me. Even super light bikes feel like they weigh a ton once you blow up on a climb.
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 05:24 AM
  #9  
Grumpy McTrumpy
gmt
 
Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 12,509
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
yes.
Grumpy McTrumpy is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 08:00 AM
  #10  
Bacciagalupe
Professional Fuss-Budget
 
Bacciagalupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I concur with the above. 2 pounds is negligible and the importance of weight is often vastly overstated.

I would also say I can't think of too many reasons why either the Wilier or Focus will give you much of a performance edge over the Defy, unless you change the setup (especially the rider position, wheels and tires). This is not to say that getting a 2nd bike is necessarily a bad idea; just keep in mind that it won't really make you faster.
Bacciagalupe is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 08:53 AM
  #11  
mpath
Recusant Iconoclast
 
mpath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
Posts: 2,560

Bikes: Look 695, Wilier Izoard

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 29 Posts
What size frame is the XP? And what wheels are on them?
mpath is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 09:40 AM
  #12  
Looigi
Senior Member
 
Looigi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
When you're running with the weight in a pack, you are supporting the weight and lifting it up and down with each stride. A bike supports its own weight. Its weight comes into play accelerating, decelerating, and when you have to provide the power to move it up the hill when climbing. Like others have said, the difference in bike weight is small compared to the total weight of the rider/bike combination. It's significant only at the pinnacle of competition.

That said, you can certainly enjoy the esthetic appeal of how light a bike can be even though it doesn't have any practical impact on your rides. That's pretty much what weight weenieism is all about.
Looigi is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 09:42 AM
  #13  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 23,405

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 135 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2917 Post(s)
Liked 1,857 Times in 1,127 Posts
IMO, weight has been a perennial topic of interest to cyclists mostly because it is easily quantifiable, not because of its effect on the cycling experience for most cyclists.

The marketing people love it, though.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 09:45 AM
  #14  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 37,841

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 352 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19367 Post(s)
Liked 7,934 Times in 4,002 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
The marketing people love it, though.
Just like the good ol' wattage wars in audio equipment...
WhyFi is online now  
Old 06-12-11, 09:53 AM
  #15  
datlas 
Beyond Bogus
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 37,637

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 519 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17452 Post(s)
Liked 4,780 Times in 2,319 Posts
I agree a couple of pounds spread throughout the bike will not matter significantly.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 10:31 AM
  #16  
pgjackson
Senior Member
 
pgjackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 4,128

Bikes: Rossetti Vertigo

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked 111 Times in 69 Posts
Someone posted a while ago the average speeds of the last 30 TdF races. In those 30 years bike have gotten lighter...but the average speed has only increased about 1.5kph. I think having a super-light bike is more about bragging rights than anything else. "My bike weighs 17.254lbs. What does YOUR bike weigh?" It's an easily verifiable statistic that even non-riders can understand, thus it becomes a standard among the hyper-competitive in-crowd. It's also a statistic that can be "improved" easily with enough money. It's a lot like when computer guys talk about one computer being faster than another...but the magnitude of difference is virtually insignificant.
pgjackson is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 10:38 AM
  #17  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 37,841

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 352 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19367 Post(s)
Liked 7,934 Times in 4,002 Posts
Originally Posted by pgjackson View Post
It's a lot like when computer guys talk about one computer being faster than another...but the magnitude of difference is virtually insignificant.
Wut. If you're sending emails and surfing the web, sure... but if you're encoding video/audio, gaming, editing photos, etc then the differences are anything but insignificant.
WhyFi is online now  
Old 06-12-11, 10:52 AM
  #18  
canyoneagle 
Senior Member
 
canyoneagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 4,692

Bikes: Vassago Moosknuckle Ti 29+ XTR, 90's Merckx Corsa-01 9sp Record, PROJECT: 1954 Frejus SuperCorsa

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked 147 Times in 69 Posts
If the bulk of the weight difference is in the wheels, you'd definitely notice a difference on climbs and sprints/jumps. Otherwise, not so much.
__________________
Bikes are fun
canyoneagle is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 10:53 AM
  #19  
pgjackson
Senior Member
 
pgjackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 4,128

Bikes: Rossetti Vertigo

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked 111 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Wut. If you're sending emails and surfing the web, sure... but if you're encoding video/audio, gaming, editing photos, etc then the differences are anything but insignificant.
If you are a professional programmer, sure. Maybe it makes a difference. But to 99.99% of people who buy computers the difference is not noticeable. Just like the difference in a couple of pounds on a bike probably wont be noticed unless you are a serious competitor or pro rider.
pgjackson is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 10:56 AM
  #20  
spock
Peripheral Visionary
 
spock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Jax, FL
Posts: 1,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by pgjackson View Post
Someone posted a while ago the average speeds of the last 30 TdF races. In those 30 years bike have gotten lighter...but the average speed has only increased about 1.5kph.
By the way things have changed with racing bikes, you would think TDF would end in about 2 days. CF this, CF that, "ohh man, it's so light", deep rim "aerodynamic" wheels, and not a lot to show for. I am getting mixed signals here.
spock is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 10:59 AM
  #21  
Walter
SLJ 6/8/65-5/2/07
 
Walter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SE Florida, USA aka the Treasure Coast
Posts: 5,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 6 Posts
Every roadie over-emphasizes weight.

At the same time it is impossible to over-emphasize weight.

Just the way it is.
__________________
“Life is not one damned thing after another. Life is one damned thing over and over.”
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Walter is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 11:09 AM
  #22  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 37,841

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 352 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19367 Post(s)
Liked 7,934 Times in 4,002 Posts
Originally Posted by pgjackson View Post
If you are a professional programmer, sure. Maybe it makes a difference. But to 99.99% of people who buy computers the difference is not noticeable.
99.99%? Wow - you are so completely wrong that I'm going to assume it would be a wasted effort to correct you.
WhyFi is online now  
Old 06-12-11, 11:17 AM
  #23  
Shuke
Senior Member
 
Shuke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'd take an extremely stiff 20 pound bike over a floppy 15 pound bike any day. I'm pretty sure every pro would agree. Weight doesn't matter if the bike is stiff and responsive unless it's a total anchorweight.
Shuke is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 11:38 AM
  #24  
KiddSisko
Has coddling tendencies.
 
KiddSisko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Topanga Canyon
Posts: 8,360

Bikes: 2008 Blue RC8 w/ '09 Rival

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times in 8 Posts
My advice is to think context. In the days of not too distant yore, a 19 lb bike would be considered an elite road machine throughout the racing community. It would have been outfitted with the best components, designed for maximum utility, efficiency and precision. Today, the level of component and frame utility, precision and efficiency has achieved a very high standard, even at the "beginner" road bike level.

Say you have a nice light frame and decent components. With good, all purpose wheels, you have a 19 lb bike. Upgrade the components (to Sram), add lighter wheels, and you now have a 17 lb bike. Maybe you'll notice the ride difference, maybe you won't. Chris Horner would most likely notice the difference.
KiddSisko is offline  
Old 06-12-11, 11:42 AM
  #25  
djpfine
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
djpfine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 241

Bikes: Wilier Izoard, Tricross FG

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
I would also say I can't think of too many reasons why either the Wilier or Focus will give you much of a performance edge over the Defy, unless you change the setup (especially the rider position, wheels and tires). This is not to say that getting a 2nd bike is necessarily a bad idea; just keep in mind that it won't really make you faster.
That's what I thought too, but man I felt so much faster/stronger on the Wilier and Focus. I did the same short 1.5mi climb during my test rides and was ~1mph and nearly a minute faster on the carbon bikes. Sure, fatigue may have played a role, but the difference in feel was remarkable. On my Giant, I feel like I'm fighting the bike. When I stand to pedal, it sometimes feels like I'm not really going any faster. The Izoard and Izalco, on the other hand, feel like they always want to go faster. When I stand, the bikes leap forward, and I don't feel like any power is being wasted.

All in my head? Perhaps...

Originally Posted by mpath View Post
What size frame is the XP? And what wheels are on them?
It's a medium with Fulcrum 7 wheels. The build I want from CC will come with Rival vs. Ultegra (~200grams saved) and Mavic K10's vs. the Fulcrum 7's (~400 grams saved).
djpfine is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.