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Is my fear of shop rides irrational?

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Is my fear of shop rides irrational?

Old 06-18-11, 05:12 PM
  #26  
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You mean I can't overtake and break from the peloton while wearing my kit and riding my CF racing bike? I thought the idea of group rides was to win??
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Old 06-18-11, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Vicelord View Post
No you aren't missing a thing. It really is that simple. All I'd like to know is generally what speeds do these types of rides move at? I'm not asking anyone to be specific but the shop guys can't seem to tell me.

Surely there is someone on this board who has done enough "no drop" rides to give me a general idea, and I can take it from there.
What constitutes a "no drop" ride varies tremendously. Nobody can tell you how fast your local ride is, except the local riders. And even that's going to vary depending upon terrain, wind, and time of year
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Old 06-18-11, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by halfspeed View Post
What constitutes a "no drop" ride varies tremendously. Nobody can tell you how fast your local ride is, except the local riders. And even that's going to vary depending upon terrain, wind, and time of year
Like I said, I'm not looking for an exact speed. I'm just curious how fast these rides usually go. Are shop rides 12mph? 35mph? I mean I have no idea, so even an educated guess is better than what I know at the moment.
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Old 06-18-11, 05:54 PM
  #29  
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Where's the ride and what shop? I'll roll out. I'm in Phx. I've never done a group ride either.
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Old 06-18-11, 06:01 PM
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Sat/Sun morning shop ride in June is not going to have the really fast people. The speed of group rides varies but "no drop" is probably <18 avg on flatland, <16 avg in hilly areas.
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Old 06-18-11, 06:05 PM
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OP; after reading your comments I would suggest you just go ride this thing and gain the experience. Such things as learning what "drop" is in context will be beneficial. Don't over think this ride...just do it and have fun
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Old 06-18-11, 06:07 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by elzy0000 View Post
Where's the ride and what shop? I'll roll out. I'm in Phx. I've never done a group ride either.
Sippery Pig Central just south of Camelback. Ride goes around Paradise Valley.
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Old 06-18-11, 06:08 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by mmmdonuts View Post
Sat/Sun morning shop ride in June is not going to have the really fast people. The speed of group rides varies but "no drop" is probably <18 avg on flatland, <16 avg in hilly areas.
thanks man. That gives me a good basis to go on. If that's the speed, I'll have no issue keeping up. Hell, if it's <22 on flats I'll be okay.
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Old 06-18-11, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Vicelord View Post
thanks man. That gives me a good basis to go on. If that's the speed, I'll have no issue keeping up. Hell, if it's <22 on flats I'll be okay.
Just remember "avg" means for the ride. Riding speed will be higher and lower than that.
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Old 06-18-11, 06:15 PM
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oooh. So actual riding speeds will be in the 20's for sure then.
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Old 06-18-11, 06:18 PM
  #36  
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I would be more worried about group riding on the road than being able to keep up and/or getting dropped. There are certain things that are must do's in group riding and you need to be careful that you don't break those rules or rider can get hurt, including yourself.
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Old 06-18-11, 06:21 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by John_V View Post
I would be more worried about group riding on the road than being able to keep up and/or getting dropped. There are certain things that are must do's in group riding and you need to be careful that you don't break those rules or rider can get hurt, including yourself.
thank you for telling me not to break the rules, without telling me what the rules are. Seriously, that was incredibly helpful.

I should know better than to trust a John V.
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Old 06-18-11, 06:32 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Velo Gator View Post
Huh? "No drop" is a lie here. Meaning when the shop says it's no drop, they will still drop you. Therefore, "no drop" is a lie.
Note that the lady is referring to one specific shop in Florida. I'd be loath to apply that to your shop in Phoenix. What would bother me is that the other riders claim to have no idea how long that ride takes them. That smells of BS.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go on the ride. You need to know how to ride in a group, and now's a good time to start. If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't, and it's a lesson learned. Just find a different group with which to ride. It's not like the Phoenix area is sparsely populated by road cyclists.

ETA: The way to find out what the rules are is to go on a group ride and tell the ride leaders that you have no idea what the rules are. Everybody's BTDT. Most clubs have folks who are used to helping out riders who are new to riding in a group. You may end up riding in a group of cyclists with a wide range of abilities, all of whom are in the same boat. You'll have to put up with the slow pace to get the knowledge, but it's worth it.
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Old 06-18-11, 06:36 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Vicelord View Post
thanks man. That gives me a good basis to go on. If that's the speed, I'll have no issue keeping up. Hell, if it's <22 on flats I'll be okay.
You'll be fine. The reason the shop people and no one here can give you a straight answer is because the avg speeds you're quoting are not relevant to whether you can keep up.

Invariably, there will be sections of the ride where the group ups the intensity and the speed goes up significantly. These are the portions of the ride you need to be paying attention. It could be after a corner, a light or just when someone decides it's time to ride hard. If this happens and you aren't paying attention you could end up with a gap between you and the next rider. If a 10 ft gap opens up and the rider on the front decides to hammer, you need to be able to keep up with him. If he's stronger than you, or used to shorter harder efforts, you will be dropped.

The first few rides you just need to get comfortable riding smoothly with little or no braking and no swerving. Remember, riding closely behind another rider takes only about 70% of the power of the rider in front. If you're 8th in line the benefit is even greater. Given the speeds you've mentioned, you won't have any problem keeping up when they are riding at a steady pace. Just watch for the accelerations and remember the pain fades and eventually they'll slow down.

Have fun.

P.S. And don't worry about taking your share of pulls on the first ride. Stay out of the wind until you complete the ride at least once.
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Old 06-18-11, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
Note that the lady is referring to one specific shop in Florida. I'd be loath to apply that to your shop in Phoenix. What would bother me is that the other riders claim to have no idea how long that ride takes them. That smells of BS.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go on the ride. You need to know how to ride in a group, and now's a good time to start. If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't, and it's a lesson learned. Just find a different group with which to ride. It's not like the Phoenix area is sparsely populated by road cyclists.

ETA: The way to find out what the rules are is to go on a group ride and tell the ride leaders that you have no idea what the rules are. Everybody's BTDT. Most clubs have folks who are used to helping out riders who are new to riding in a group. You may end up riding in a group of cyclists with a wide range of abilities, all of whom are in the same boat. You'll have to put up with the slow pace to get the knowledge, but it's worth it.
Thanks for your help. How are you using ETA? I thought that was Estimated Time of Arrival? And what is BTDT? Sorry if this sounds weird to ask this question, but I've noticed that in cycling everyone likes to make acronyms for everything and often times I'm just absolutely lost on them.

and gregf83, by pulls do you mean getting out front and doing the work? I'd rather just ride someone's wheel the whole time. lol
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Old 06-18-11, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Terror_in_pink View Post
they will have regroups probably. The worst is that you get dropped and everyone else is so busy riding their bike that they don't notice you. no big deal.
this. if you get droped no big deal just show up next week and the week after until you can hang on. its really not that big of a deal. especially a shop ride.
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Old 06-18-11, 06:58 PM
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Well, since I don't live in your area and have never ridden with your group, I really don't know what their rules are. There are basic group rules plus each group has their own specific rules. Before you ride ask them, then you will know what rules you shouldn't break. Pretty simple, don't you think?
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Old 06-18-11, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Velo Gator View Post
"No drop" is a lie everywhere.
Fixed.
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Old 06-18-11, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by John_V View Post
Well, since I don't live in your area and have never ridden with your group, I really don't know what their rules are. There are basic group rules plus each group has their own specific rules. Before you ride ask them, then you will know what rules you shouldn't break. Pretty simple, don't you think?
please don't speak to me in a condescending manner.

Please remember you are speaking to someone who has, admittedly, never been on an organized group ride. Our mountain rides are basically 'fend for yourself' even though they are somewhat organized shop rides. They regroup every few miles, but there are definitely no stated "rules" so that's why I have no idea what you mean when you say rules.

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Old 06-18-11, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Vicelord View Post
Thanks for your help. How are you using ETA? I thought that was Estimated Time of Arrival? And what is BTDT? Sorry if this sounds weird to ask this question, but I've noticed that in cycling everyone likes to make acronyms for everything and often times I'm just absolutely lost on them.
Sorry about that! "ETA" = "Edited to add"; "BTDT" = "Been there, done that".
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Old 06-18-11, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Vicelord View Post
No you aren't missing a thing. It really is that simple. All I'd like to know is generally what speeds do these types of rides move at? I'm not asking anyone to be specific but the shop guys can't seem to tell me.

Surely there is someone on this board who has done enough "no drop" rides to give me a general idea, and I can take it from there.
there is really no way for us to tell you how fast the group will be. there are groups in my area that avg only14-16mph (some maybe even less) and the group i ride with every week rarely averages less than 20mph. most of the time they will tell you if they are an A group (fastest) or B group (avg/fast) etc. really the only way for you to find out is for you to show up.

ill also add that most of the time your avg speed will be higher when riding w/ a group.
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Old 06-18-11, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Vicelord View Post
and gregf83, by pulls do you mean getting out front and doing the work? I'd rather just ride someone's wheel the whole time. lol
The rider in front 'pulls' the rest of the group. Normally, they will rotate through and you may end up in front. Just pay attention to what others are doing and if you end up in front pull for a few seconds and then rotate off the same as everyone else.
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Old 06-18-11, 07:14 PM
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thank you for telling me not to break the rules, without telling me what the rules are. Seriously, that was incredibly helpful.

I should know better than to trust a John V.
Excuse me?
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Old 06-18-11, 07:14 PM
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I was on a century ride a month ago with a pretty fast paceline. We were going 27 mph into a headwind and I was next in line. It was a very humbling experience, to say the least. Needless to say, I held the pace for a few minutes, then pulled off, and dropped off the back. As I do more and more of these, I am learning how to pace myself and which groups to latch onto, and which ones to let go.
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Old 06-18-11, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
The rider in front 'pulls' the rest of the group. Normally, they will rotate through and you may end up in front. Just pay attention to what others are doing and if you end up in front pull for a few seconds and then rotate off the same as everyone else.
gotcha, thanks for clarifying.

These guys are mountain guys all the way through. I don't think they even worry about stuff that roadies are doing. They will probably designate a lead and a sweep leave the rest open to everyone's own intrepetation, but I'm just guessing.
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