Tried Zipp, what a let down
 

Hey guys. I believe I just saved myself a significant amount of money, as I tried the Zipp 404 tubulars yesterday. I have been jones'n over some carbon wheels for months now and the wife told me I had to ride some before dropping the cash. Took the 404's out for a 20 mile ride averaging about 19mph. Although the sound was awesome and the ride seemed a bit better, it certainly did not justify a 2300 dollar price tag in my book. SOO, I now have about 2,000 to spend on my bike! Naturally, I would just buy a back up bike or tri-bike on sale, but are there any upgrades (such as tires) that I should look into to help me boost my performance? I have the stock specialized mondo II tires on my bike now. Would switching to some conti 4000's really make any difference?

:popcorn

What wheels you running now that you couldn't tell the diffrenece ?

I just keep telling myself that I won't be able to tell the difference, or it won't improve my performance . . .

The Millennium Falcon didn't have Zipps and still made the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs. So where are ya going to spend the money?

If going to Zipp 404's wasn't enough a performance bump for you, there's really no upgrade you can buy that's going to make a bigger difference ( other than going to even deeper sectoned wheels such as 808's)

My suggestion would be to work on the engine. If you're going to follow a dedidcated training program, $2K spent on a power meter will give you more of a performance improvement than any upgrade you can buy.

Of course if you don't follow a program using the Power meter it won't make you faster.

Good point Merlinex. I am not saying they weren't nice, but for a recreational/group ride and occassional tri guy like me, I just couldn't justify 2300 bucks for that little of an improvement. I think I would probably benefit from buying a tri-specific bike more than zipps would I?

A new bike is always a good idea. Like pizza or chocolate.

^^^that's not who Zipp markets those wheels to. They are performance wheels. And for an occasional tri guy, save your money on the tri bike. Unless you are aboove 25mph regularly, you gain nothing. Same as the wheels. You gain little to nothing.

FWIW.

Yeah, I was seeing if bling factor + minimal gain could justify it for me.

If your goal is to be faster on the bike leg in triathlons, a TT/Triathlon bike properly fitted is going to make a much bigger difference than any set of wheels.

Not climbing, Wind resistence is the biggest force to overcome, and the wind resistence attributable to the Rider is about 90% of that equation. So a dialed in position, which a dedicated TT bike will facilitate, will make a much bigger time difference than wheels.

And you don't have to be going 25mph plus to benefit. In fact, the amount of time to be saved on the bike leg of a triathlon from improved aerodynamics is greater for riders at slower speeds. This is true because they're on the course longer, and the same % improvement results in more, not less time savings.

Now if you're not going 25mph, you may not be in a position to win much, and there's the question of cost, versus return, but that's adifferent question.

what? $2000 wheels not worth the money? i'm shocked.. SHOCKED i tell you

at a certain point the improvement gains for anything become smaller and smaller, yet more and more expensive. unless you're racing or doing something where even a slight improvement is a big deal, you just gotta decide your bike is "good enough"

I was in the same position that you are in a recreation rider with the desire for more performance and the looks of carbon. I ended up getting Mavic Carbon clinchers with the alm rim on Bonktown for $1,000. They look great and do give some benefit at 20+/- MPH, it seems much easier to hold the speed. I am sure that Zipp is better but at lest than half the cost it made more economic sense. I also purchase the protection pan and ride them every day. The only real downside is that the rim seems larger (higher) and it is much harder to mount the tires.

There's a guy who occasionally rides with my regular group who has both a tri bike and a road bike. He is constantly being spit off the back when he's on his road bike. A few weeks ago we ran into him while he was out solo on his tri bike. He turned around and rode with us. He took a monster (about 10 minutes long) pull into a 20mph headwind that had all of the strongest guys in the group struggling just to stay on his wheel. The second guy in the paceline was our strongest rider and he was absolutely pegged (partly because he was really doing a lot of pulling too).

If you're looking to be faster in a tri, the way to go is to get a tri bike. Then put the Zipps on that.

Since you're a part-time triguy and going fast on tri-race day is likely important for your hard earned cash, either:

1) Save money for a tribike, AND/OR
2) Get aerobars (from non-group riding, of course)

The aerobars are the single biggest factor for a speed increase over a road bike. It completely trounces the effects of any disc or deep dish combo, as it greatly improves YOUR body aerodynamics, which accounts for the majority of the aero drag. If you're gonna mount aerobars on the road bike, make sure it's at least comfortable - the seat setup is slightly different and more forward on a TT bike to accomodate the extra reach.

I'd take a set of $80 aerobars on a road bike any day vs a road bike with Zipp wheels sans aerobars for a TT/tri where you're nondrafting. Even solo rides or loosely packed nonpaceline group rides, aerobars can be helpful if you want to get faster.

That's your problem. The wattage savings (as in, how many watts i need to maintain a certain speed) becomes appreciable at higher speeds, and to get to higher speeds, you need to have some massive threshold power or a very aero position.

As others mentioned, proper bike fit + dedicated training is the way to go, though i won't discourage try-athletes from buying these expensive toys as i get to buy them cheap second hand when they don't see any meaningful gains ;)

aerobars in themselves don't help much without a proper fitting. In fact, some even find some of the "shorty" bars to offer to aero advantage.

That's why I'm getting November wheels. $885 for 58mm wheels.
I can't justify >$2000 for wheels that will probably not give me much of an improvement.

To be honest, I'm not expecting much when riding solo. But I'm 'hoping' I'll save some energy in group rides where we're doing 25-30mph. That extra energy will 'hopefully' keep me from being dropped about 3/4 of the way through the ride each time.

A proper "fit"' is of course, very helpful, but at $80-$120 for a set of aerobars, you can give it a shot if you're not inclined on spending on a pro-fit or are hesitant on redoing your road bike fit. It's not for everyone, but there are tons of folks out there who have no complaints using their road bike fit with clip on aerobars.

And I disagree they don't help much without a proper fit; anything that will lower your head out of the wind will give you an aero advantage. I've seen some horrendous up-in-air aerobars setups that probably won't give you much, but the vast majority of aerobar setups, even an suboptimally positioned one, will give you more of an edge than Zipp wheels.

No Zipps for you Johnny Lunchpail.

Yes you did. Now go to the homeless shelter and donate. Now.

Was that really necessary or adding anything to this thread?

No, take the $2500, buy a lower end aluminum TT frame, 105 or Rival groupset, a reasonable set of wheels, a Wheel builder disc cover, and a used HED trispoke for the front, and you'll have a very fast TT bike, and likely be left with a decent chunk of the $2500 for the Homeless shelter.

I think you need to have realistic expectations.

These aero wheels do make a difference but you have to go faster to get the benefit.

The benefits really go up at speeds say in excess of 22 or 23 MPH.

If you are tootling around at 19MPH your benefit is minimal.

Even at 23 MPH the difference is VERY MODEST. Enough to make a few seconds or a minute for a tri or TT but for a recreational cyclist this is burning money.

Good points.

Also, if you get aerobars, make sure you ride with them low enough to get your back flat. I see lots of people with aerobars up so high that they are in about the same position as being on the hoods.

Didnt I read somewhere that the most aero advantage comes from switching to a an aero helmet?