patentcad

I see no problem with this.

Psimet2001 

Disc brakes are well on their way for the road - get used to it.

UCI changed the rule last year....not this year. Frames have been in production and prototypes have been spotted. I have been working over the Specialized rep hard for a Crux disc. He said he would have delivery details in August. Working with him and this to develop cross specific product offerings.

Tektro has a hydraulic resevoir/master cylinder that works with cables and actuation ratios from road to allow for use of hydraulic discs with road levers.

This was one of the main questions I was asking all OEM's at Interbike last year. They were all over it already. I expect this year will be roll-out of a lot of disc gear.

For those that don't know - high end road is the smallest part of the real market for cycling. Cross's popularity has mandated the need for the design of the product. The plethora of commuters and city/trail bikes will carry the product development to the masses. Road will be the last group standing without disc, but it is a matter of time.

As for group rides.....guys.....seriously....whether you like it or not people DO actually ride their bikes once or twice before getting into a group ride. Disc brakes WON'T affect that. If I grab a handful of brake lever now I can lock up both wheels solid. How are disc brakes going to all of a sudden make newbs act differently? Besides...if this is your worry then find a better group to ride with or make your own.

celticfrost

I realize that better braking isn't compromised of more stopping power alone, so w/ disc brakes we're just talking about modulation, heat dissipation, etc and not stopping power? That skinny 20-23cm tire can only do so much to make you stop regardless of the braking system behind it

pallen

From my limited experience with discs on my last bike, I would say yes - all of those those thing plus wet conditions. Which is why I also agree with psimet that this is a non-issue on group rides. Its not like newbs will suddenly have superhuman braking powers - they can already panic-break hard enough to wreak havoc, this doesn't change much.

I'm not crazy about the harsher ride from stiffer forks and such though. Hopefully some smart engineers can address those issues.

canam73

Shimano might be more on top of things, but I've seen plenty of marketing departments fark their naming systems into things that don't make sense.

Or maybe the next incarnation will be "digital integrated instantaneous intelligence" or some such and then called Di3 for short

SpongeDad

Will the product be developed? Yes. And the need for modulation over sheer braking power, which isn't usable, in cross should only tend to skew the product to a lighter, more road friendly design. But honestly, except people with CF rims and sloppy riding conditions, I'm having a hard time seeing the need. I ride cross in the mud and never wished I had better brakes; different tires perhaps, but not better brakes.

pallen

How about this, if they weighed exactly the same, why would you prefer rim brakes over discs?

mvnsnd

I certainly don't doubt they are coming. To me, the question will be how well they will be accepted.

SpongeDad

1. Cheaper
2. Easier to maintain
3. Already own a bunch of non-disk wheels (granted, this is dead weight loss issue - overtime this would become less important and is of no importance to new buyers).

Runner 1

Everyone claiming extra torque on the fork, how much more torque? I'd like a number. It's easy to throw out wild guesses of how something "might" affect something else.

danvuquoc

I'd run disks, just for less wear on wheels braking rim.

Seattle Forrest

But the disc brakes on your motorcycle aren't like the BB7s on my cross bike. My Cervelo with Ultegra brakes and alu rims has as much braking power as my CX bike when the roads are dry. On wet pavement, I prefer the disc brakes every time.

pallen

#1 Will likely change as volumes go up, but yeah, if you aren't being a weight weenie, standard brakes are crazy cheap.
#2 I dont see it - my disc bike has been just as easy as my non-disk
#3 What you said. That may make for slower adoption like #1

I see this like Di2 - no one needs it, but if its cheap enough and they can solve the weight issue, why not have better brakes?

pallen

I'm guessing none of us here have designed a fork and measured it with strain meters or other such lab equipment, but I do know there were some issues with early disk bikes popping wheels off under heavy braking if the QR skewers weren't tightened properly. The forces are certainly different in the fork with discs vs traditional. It would make sense to design with that in mind - this is what we have seen so far from manufacturers offering disk brakes.

StephenH

Well, we seem to have two lines of thought here- the "Rim brakes are just as good so I don't want discs!" and the "Discs are so much better that it'll be dangerous when other people have them!". I can believe either side, but not both at the same time, so y'all need to get together and get your excuses aligned.

My experience with disc brakes:
1) They stop okay, but I've never skidded a wheel with one (but have with a coaster brake).
2) They don't strike me as grabby, so issues of running into noobs that brake strike me as a non-issue.
3) They do require periodic adjustment and stuff, they're not as maintenance free as it sounds (this on Avid BB5 road disc brakes).
4) People don't generally swap out rim brakes for discs, so you'd be buying a whole new bike when you changed, so issues of redesigning a bike or fork for discs are pretty much non-issues unless you're a manufacturer.
5) The only complaints I've ever heard from users of rim brakes were when it was actually raining during the ride, and even then, it was only a few out of the whole bunch that were having issues.
6) When you do work on a disc brake, you can't see what you're doing very well- the moving parts are smaller and more concealed.

Something to keep in mind is that with rim brakes, you can make the brake assemblies, the levers, the pads and all as big and beefy as you want. You could put a 3' lever on the top of the frame where you could crank it down and an elephant couldn't budge that rim. If a rim brake has marginal braking power or doesn't work when wet or overheats, etc, those are all design issues caused by making compromises in the design, and are not just something automatically associated with rim brakes. You can make disc brakes that are inadequate in one situation or another, too. And if they squeeze every last gram out of a disc brake, that may be the very one that has the worst issues.

Carcinogent

Try changing a wheel with a through axle hub.... You will need a very solid attachment and a quick release just won't do. Although on a road bike you might be able to pull it off. I am not saying disc brakes will not appear on the road racing scene, however, we have had rim brakes ever since the dawn of cycling and yet they are still around, quite improved but still around. Making better brake pads/rim coatings is way easier and completely backward compatible with everything out there in the market. It's not brakes that do not work, it's cyclists that take risks/go too fast. Also locking a wheel with a rim or a disc brake with a 23mm tyre will have the same deleterious effects. It might give that extra half a second it takes the brakes to grab on a wet carbon rim, i do doubt it though.

-Carcinogent

garciawork

I have been saying this since I started road biking... No idea if this has been posted yet, but I almost got one after my Tarmac was wrecked. https://www.volagi.com/bikes

big john

Being over 200# and having toured on a 60# bike, I have had brake fade many times. On the road bike descending a 20% grade I have wished for stronger, more fade resistant brakes.
I could benefit from good discs even in dry conditions.

big john

Those bikes look awesome. I'd like to demo one.

pallen

The biggest issue I've had with discs is them getting noisy when trash and gunk gets in them. I could see how that might get annoying to some. I guess you could call that 'maintenance' even though it did not effect the performance of the brakes.

powpow

Disc brakes (at least hydros, never tried mechs) add weight, and they can be expensive and fussy. Brake rub with discs can drive you nuts. They do brake nicely and perform great in wet weather, but my current Force/Rival brakes work just fine. I'll pass.

Werkin

If the need is for greater initial bite, linear grip, exponential grip, improved performance in wet conditions, dry conditions, longevity, less noise, cool operation, there are pad materials for each of those, and there are pad materials that do it all with compromises. The learning curve is very short for using discs, just like using new rim brake pad compounds, but nothing about their operation will bite you the first time out. The bed-in period is the time to become accustomed to a particular caliper/pad/rotor performance characteristic, and until the pads & rotors are bed, performance will be far less than optimum.

I have disc brakes on my road bike, the front fork is a skinny straight blade, it doesn't twist under brake, whether hauling down from 40+ mph or riding the brake on a 30% bumpy descent. It may be detectable in the lab, but it's not observable by me.

I can lock the rear wheel on my vintage bike, rear wheel lock up is more about the fingers and not so much about the brakes. For the fronts, lock up threshold is more brake pad/tire compound dependent. I did configure the rear disc to be less grippy, so as to reduce the fingers' influence.

Rotor size has its place when braking repeatedly or continuously under high load. Road "racing" demands light brake usage, the discs on a racer could be quite small and still be affective, so rotor weight would be less of an issue.

Disc brakes are not superior in all situations, just as rim brakes have their less than best moments. I feel love for my disc brakes when they remain fade free on that bumpy as all get out, ride the brake, major steep descent. My rim brakes go soft near the bottom of that hill, and there are usually shards of rim surface embedded in the pad afterward. It will take some time before bicycle disc technology advances to the road race level, but it will happen.

A couple additional points, my rear disc hub is 130mm road spacing, and as I mentioned earlier, disc brake noise can be eliminated or reduced drastically with pad choice.

therhodeo

Shouldn't Brunyeel stick to things he knows about like medical equipment or good lawyers?

Kind of Blued

I was thinking the opposite. If your carbon clinchers can be designed with no regard for braking surface (cause of disc brakes), I'd imagine the rims could be considerably lighter, reducing rotational weight far from the hub, which theoretically gives the biggest advantage in a climb.

Psimet2001 

FWIW - cyclocross setups have been very common in the spring classics lately. Seen a lot of cantilevers in pictures.