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-   -   Front Brakes Only? Really? (https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/755960-front-brakes-only-really.html)

Rowan 07-30-11 05:24 AM

If your rear brakes aren't working to slow you down, get new brakes. The Ultegras on the rear of both my road bikes are excellent. But the principle still is that the front brake provides most of your braking force, and is the one you should squeeze most.

What hasn't been discussed is wet-weather/slippery road braking, and that requires judicious squeezing of both levers to ensure the front doesn't lock, skid and drop you. An efficient rear brake will help a lot in these sorts of conditions, and its preferably to have that lock up and to correct the fishtail, than have the front lock up.

When I ran bike riding classes, I used to get students to ride at moderate speed down grass banks and apply their brakes in three different ways -- front only, rear only and front+rear. It's worth doing on your own. But remember to modulate or feather the squeeze on the levers to avoid lock-up, and definitely keep arms straight; even better, move your weight back over the rear wheel by getting your butt off the seat and hanging over the back of it.

One of my favourite experiences on a bicycle was descending a hill called the Sideling in Tasmania on a randonnee. coming into switchback corners and getting the rear wheel off the ground because of the front braking effort. Needless to say, the road was bone dry.

bbattle 07-30-11 05:40 AM


Originally Posted by noremac (Post 13008580)
You should be terrified:

#91;/url]
Just kidding. Keep your weight back.


First thing I saw were the aero bars.

Nassa 07-30-11 05:51 AM

It is the combination of trying to unclip the pedals and apply front brake that scares me.
Also, since I ride on the hoods often, how does that impact applying the front brake?

revchuck 07-30-11 06:06 AM


Originally Posted by Nassa (Post 13008706)
It is the combination of trying to unclip the pedals and apply front brake that scares me.
Also, since I ride on the hoods often, how does that impact applying the front brake?

Unclipping and stopping becomes a habit through repetition. If you haven't yet fallen over at a dead stop due to not having unclipped, don't worry, you will. :D It happens to all of us. It's a rare occurrence, but common. As for riding on the hoods, that's the easiest place from which to access the brakes, and you get a good grip on the bars there too, so that's a good position from which to do it.

Rowan 07-30-11 06:18 AM


Originally Posted by Nassa (Post 13008706)
It is the combination of trying to unclip the pedals and apply front brake that scares me.
Also, since I ride on the hoods often, how does that impact applying the front brake?

The unclipping sequence comes from practice. Anticipation is part of it. Raally, though, unclipping isn't related to a fear of going over the handlebars, just to falling to the side when you finally do come to a stop if you haven't clipped out.

The amount of force you can apply to the lever while on the hoods depends on the size of your hands/length of your fingers, and their strength, and how the hoods are placed on your handlebars... that is, if you ride on the hoods almost exclusively, the hoods should be up further on the bars than if you ride on the drops a lot. It has to do with access with your fingers and how much force they can apply.

OldsCOOL 07-30-11 06:23 AM


Originally Posted by urbanknight (Post 13008034)
The theory behind this is that when braking, your weight shifts to the front and unloads the rear wheel, so the rear wheel isn't able to do much braking at all if the front is applied anyway. So even when you think you're using both brakes equally, you're really only stopping because of the front brake. Go down a hill and use only the rear brake for a moment and you will see how little it does compared with the front.

That being said, I still brake with both hands most of the time just out of habit. It is true, though, that when you panic and squeeze the life out of both levers, your rear tire skids and you start moving sideways.

edit: Mountain biking is a different animal, though, so don't apply these theories there.

I learned that the hard way. Face Plant. Those big gnarly tires do dig in.

oban_kobi 07-30-11 06:26 AM

By the time you need to unclip, you'll be under 3mph, so not much can go wrong, other than falling to the side.

One thing you must never never ever do, is grab both brakes hard at the same time. Your rear wheel swings around, and you end up traveling sideways fishtailing like mad. That was a fun day.

njkayaker 07-30-11 07:04 AM


Originally Posted by Nassa (Post 13007885)
it says I should use my front brake 95% of the time.

You are mostly doing this anyway even if you don't realize it!

gsteinb 07-30-11 07:10 AM


Originally Posted by revchuck (Post 13008728)
If you haven't yet fallen over at a dead stop due to not having unclipped, don't worry, you will. :D It happens to all of us.

It really doesn't.

njkayaker 07-30-11 07:11 AM


Originally Posted by Nerull (Post 13008231)
And look closely at the video. It wasn't the stop that caused the bike to flip. The rear tire stays firmly planted on the ground until her stomach hits the handlebars.

Also, the speed at which the flip occurs is much lower than 35mph. Also, it occurred on gravel/sand: the front wheel may have sunk into the sand or dropped into a small hole. And the loose gravel/sand can cause the front brake to lock (this reduces the traction/friction between the tire and the road).

njkayaker 07-30-11 07:19 AM


Originally Posted by Nassa (Post 13008706)
It is the combination of trying to unclip the pedals and apply front brake that scares me.

Brake first. Then, unclip second. If you are unclipping, your weight is forward (typically), which doesn't help braking.


Originally Posted by Nassa (Post 13008706)
Also, since I ride on the hoods often, how does that impact applying the front brake?

Braking from the hoods has three deficiencies: 1) your weight is higher and more forward, 2) you are operating the brake lever closer to the fulcrum, which means you use more force, 3) one is using weaker fingers to apply that force.

Braking (at high speeds and on declines) is better done with your hands on the drops with your stronger index/middle fingers on the ends of the brake levers. This also puts your weight lower and allows you to move your weight back (off of the seat) too.

andrewluke 07-30-11 07:35 AM


Originally Posted by revchuck (Post 13008640)
It's also a good illustration about why you shouldn't use aero bars in a paceline.

Or not weight the seat when you brake.

Tundra_Man 07-30-11 07:56 AM


Originally Posted by noremac (Post 13008580)
You should be terrified:

#91;/url]
Just kidding. Keep your weight back.

Watching the slow motion portion after the wheel rub and you can see the wheel wobbling at a different rate than the fork/handlebars which indicates there was a problem of some sort with the hub which probably caused the broken spokes. Break 4 spokes and your wheel is for sure going out of true. With the wheel wobbling like that, I would imagine that any amount of front brake could cause them to suddenly grab. If a wheel goes far enough out of true it could grab without applying any front brake at all.

Also note that the guy's chain is adjusted with too much slack. The chain didn't contribute to the crash, but does support the notion that this bike wasn't maintained in proper working condition. I'm guessing this bike was going down eventually and we just happened to see it when it did.

I've been cycling for nearly 40 years and have never gone over the handlebars. I use my front brake a lot. I think the OP's fears are unfounded. Crashes by other means are much more common.

AndyK 07-30-11 08:17 AM


Originally Posted by Tundra_Man (Post 13008971)
I've been cycling for nearly 40 years and have never gone over the handlebars. I use my front brake a lot. I think the OP's fears are unfounded. Crashes by other means are much more common.

+1

It's important to practice brake modulation. Carefully squeezing, as opposed to panicking and grabbing the levers hard. That is, until bikes come with electric anti-lock brakes!

revchuck 07-30-11 09:43 AM


Originally Posted by revchuck
It's also a good illustration about why you shouldn't use aero bars in a paceline.
Or not weight the seat when you brake.
My point was that he had already overlapped the other rider's back wheel to the axle before he got off the aerobars, and barely got his hands on the bars in time to keep from going down right there, and probably taking the photographer with him. Had he been in the drops instead, he might've hit the brakes in time to avoid running into his buddy. I'm just glad he got out of it with only some road rash and a few broken spokes and a tale to re-tell over beers.

He must have hit something really solid to stop his front wheel like that. Had his front wheel locked up on gravel, his front end would've just washed out. How do I know this? Trust me, I know this. ;)

NRZ 07-30-11 09:54 AM

I've locked up the rear twice. Once while stopping on a crosswalk in a short stop and almost hit the guy in front of me. And the once going down a nice hill with a hard right I was going in too hot and grabbed the brakes and as the road an imperfection the rear caught a little air/unsettled and I felt it slide out from underneath me, luckily I was already letting go of the brake and it just scared the **** out of me (the second instance was when I switched the crap textros to Ultegra on the maiden voyage of usuable brakes). I almost always grab the fronts when stopping and even when checking the speed in a pace line.

andrewluke 07-30-11 10:15 AM

Having never really experienced a rear lock on a bicycle, is it cool to just release the brake or do you just have to ride it out? I know from the motorcycle world, if you ass end gets too far out at speed with a locked rear, releasing generally results in the wonderfully painful experience known as a high-side. I'm curious if the light weight of a bicycle changes the situation there since there's so much less inertia...

pdedes 07-30-11 10:44 AM

re: video

descending too close and putting your front wheel into someone's rear skewer isn't a good idea. spokes break, wheel wobbles and a crash ensues. all in all, a well deserved result.

mnemia 07-30-11 11:10 AM


Originally Posted by AndyK (Post 13009036)
+1

It's important to practice brake modulation. Carefully squeezing, as opposed to panicking and grabbing the levers hard. That is, until bikes come with electric anti-lock brakes!

I agree with this, and it's even more important to know how to modulate your brakes when you're doing a high speed descent. That's where I've most commonly experienced the rear wheel locking up and fishtailing when applying too much force to it. Now, I sort of feather the brakes on and off rather than continually squeezing on descents, and I find that that gives you a lot more control.

I think the OP just needs to ride enough at higher speeds to gain confidence in braking and controlling the bike. The more you ride, the more natural it becomes. I've found that riding downhill is kind of similar to downhill skiing: it's partly about learning proper technique, but it's also about gaining confidence in the proper technique actually keeping you under control. I can definitely see how releasing the brakes momentarily while trying to stop might take a bit of a leap of faith at first.

Nassa 07-30-11 11:44 AM


Originally Posted by mnemia (Post 13009526)
I think the OP just needs to ride enough at higher speeds to gain confidence in braking and controlling the bike. The more you ride, the more natural it becomes.

All my newbie posts have ended with this sound advice.
More time in the saddle. :)
Next time I decide to start a thread I must remind myself "More time in the saddle."

Thanks all for the advice, I will look over some youtube videos and practice.

Mike F 07-30-11 11:45 AM

After reading this thread last night I practiced this morning. I always use both breaks but I tried the front only, bracing and keeping my weight back. Works pretty good. Thanks.. always learning.

BikeMech 07-30-11 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by pdedes (Post 13009450)
re: video

descending too close and putting your front wheel into someone's rear skewer isn't a good idea. spokes break, wheel wobbles and a crash ensues. all in all, a well deserved result.

+1 Perfect example of why you shouldn't halfwheel someone.

achoo 07-30-11 01:01 PM


Originally Posted by BikeMech (Post 13009810)
+1 Perfect example of why you shouldn't halfwheel someone.

Or ride aerobars in a paceline.

He almost certainly wouldn't have gone off the road if he hadn't been half on/half off the aerobars.

And even then if he hadn't jammed on the front brake while he was standing up with his weight over the front wheel he wouldn't have endo'd.

All in all, about as many "Don't do THIS!" dumbass moves crammed into about 5 seconds as is humanly possible.

kevin_stevens 07-30-11 08:50 PM


Originally Posted by AEO (Post 13008522)
yeah, it's possible.
but it's damn hard or impossible to pull off if the road surface is clean.



the brakes on a bicycle are appalling in comparison to motorcycles.
that and you don't want to put the weight low, you want it to go as far back as possible.

I've only ever did a stoppie on a bike while going down hill. I've never managed to pull it off on flat ground. How are you doing it? :-/

You want it both low AND far back. The force required to lever the bike over the front axle is dependent on both angle and fulcrum arm length.

How? Squeeze the front brake progressively and continually, just like on a motorcycle. :shrug:

KeS

noelc 07-30-11 09:11 PM

To me it is getting to sound complicated... get in a car park and practice braking with the front brake and you will soon learn that you can lean on it quite hard and it does as it's intended... to stop you. All the back brake does is helps so stabilise the situation when your riding with a bit of speed. Rarely would I use the back brake, slippery, descents and emergencies spring to mind. Don't watch videos.. just get on the bike!!!


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