Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

No name china-carbon

Old 08-01-11, 09:40 AM
  #1  
Jaytron
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
Thread Starter
 
Jaytron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 4,224

Bikes: CAAD 10 4, Dolan DF4, Fuji Track Classic

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
No name china-carbon

Has anyone had any experiences with the no-name ebay carbon frames? I'm looking for a cheap frame to use in the meantime before I get my next bike, since most of the components off my wrecked Scott are ok to reuse. I did a search, and most of the threads I found were years old. Has anyone had any recent experiences with these?
Jaytron is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 09:47 AM
  #2  
bonz50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Antioch, IL
Posts: 2,330

Bikes: 2013 Synapse 4

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
start here... there is a ton of info, mostly positive there, but i'd take it with a grain of salt... imho, i'd spend the same coin and get a new specialized allez e5 frameset, at least it will be worth something when you are ready to upgrade...
bonz50 is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 09:48 AM
  #3  
BrainInAJar
Senior Member
 
BrainInAJar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
yes, they're lovely frames that cost next to nothing.

Downside is there's no resale value on them (or warranty, but good luck getting the manufacturer of a brand name bike to honour the warranty anyways. Plus at the price your warranty is buying several)
BrainInAJar is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 09:49 AM
  #4  
warningfs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've heard 99% of the carbon comes from Taiwan and you're simply paying for a name when you buy anywhere else.
warningfs is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 09:49 AM
  #5  
volosong
Senior Member
 
volosong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 2,766

Bikes: n + 1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
^^^^ Taiwan is not China, (well, at least to most of the world ... except for the ChiComs).

I wouldn't ride a no-name mainland Chinese manufactured carbon frame if it were given to me for free. My recommendation is to look for something used.
volosong is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 09:50 AM
  #6  
Jaytron
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
Thread Starter
 
Jaytron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 4,224

Bikes: CAAD 10 4, Dolan DF4, Fuji Track Classic

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bonz50 View Post
start here... there is a ton of info, mostly positive there, but i'd take it with a grain of salt... imho, i'd spend the same coin and get a new specialized allez e5 frameset, at least it will be worth something when you are ready to upgrade...
Thanks for the link. I probably will be looking into getting a Caad10 with tax return money next year sometime. I also finish paying off my car in Jan so it would be nice.

I suppose I could wait till then to just get a bike, but I have all these components I feel I should put to use Also, in all honesty, the single speed will probably get the most milage with daily commuting.

Originally Posted by BrainInAJar View Post
yes, they're lovely frames that cost next to nothing.

Downside is there's no resale value on them (or warranty, but good luck getting the manufacturer of a brand name bike to honour the warranty anyways. Plus at the price your warranty is buying several)
Yeah, once I retire it next year, it'll probably end up just being a back-up bike anyways. I just figured, I might as well build a low cost bike since I have all these components laying around.

Originally Posted by warningfs View Post
I've heard 99% of the carbon comes from Taiwan and you're simply paying for a name when you buy anywhere else.
Same thing I've heard.


Originally Posted by volosong View Post
I wouldn't ride a no-name mainland Chinese manufactured carbon frame if it were given to me for free. My recommendation is to look for something used.
Any reason why? Have you had bad experiences or heard of any?
Jaytron is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 10:00 AM
  #7  
volosong
Senior Member
 
volosong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 2,766

Bikes: n + 1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Jaytron View Post
...Any reason why? Have you had bad experiences or heard of any?
Setting aside the political argument about the balance of trade between the U.S. and China, etc.; China today is like Japan was when I was a child. We all purchased Japanese toys, (and later automobiles), because they were inexpensive ... but they were also poorly made, dangerous, (e.g., multiple sharp edges), and did not last very long. Their first autos were a joke. Eventually, the Japanese got their act together and became a global economic powerhouse. We all have heard that China is rapidly becoming the next global economic superpower, but they are not there yet. A lot of stuff coming out of China is junk ... not worth what we are paying. Eventually, like the Japanese did, China will get their act together too. Maybe then their carbon frames will become highly desirable. The quality control in Chinese factories now are not consistent. You never really know what you are getting. You may get a good one ... or a very bad one. Remember, you'll be, at times, moving at thirty plus miles per hour on two little contact points on the ground. Your life is to be considered. Until quality control in Chinese factories becomes good, for safety concerns, you would be best served sticking with Taiwanese, North American, or European carbon frames. (Again, consider as a stop gap purchasing something used, or just a name brand frameset off the bay or net.)
volosong is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 10:08 AM
  #8  
AltheCyclist
Senior Member
 
AltheCyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 694

Bikes: Many

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think the brand name, "No-name China" tells it all.
AltheCyclist is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 10:13 AM
  #9  
tagaproject6
Senior Member
 
tagaproject6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 8,273

Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Record);Cinelli Xperience (Force);Specialized Allez (Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Centaur); Colnago AC-R Disc;Colnago V1r Limited Edition;De Rosa King 3 Limited(Force 22);DeRosa Merak(Red):Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Hydro(Di2)

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 452 Post(s)
Liked 47 Times in 33 Posts
We all have our own set of values and personal biases to consider when purchasing an item such as this. Get all the information you need and make a decision based on the facts. Balance that with your own set of misgivings and that of others.
tagaproject6 is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 10:16 AM
  #10  
Phantoj
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tagaproject6 View Post
Get all the information you need and make a decision based on the facts.
In a way, that is what the OP is doing: soliciting experiences with recent generic Chinese carbon frames.

(Unfortunately, the OP is getting more "values and biases" than experiences so far.)

Last edited by Phantoj; 08-01-11 at 10:20 AM.
Phantoj is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 10:18 AM
  #11  
jeebusaurousrex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 851

Bikes: Schwinns

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Seems like the original was taken down (or I just can't find it), but here's a webcache of the old "where was my bike made" article from 2007 or so.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...www.google.com

Here are some choice quotes:

"Generally speaking, low to mid level bikes are made in China and mid to high level bikes are made in Taiwan. The exception is carbon; many manufacturers use Chinese manufacturers to make their carbon frames – even their high-end racing frames."

"A typical rule of thumb is that the country claiming origin has to add 60% or more of the value of the final product.

For example, you and I can import an unpainted carbon fiber racing frame from China to Spain which will ultimately retail for $4,000 with Shimano components in the United States.

The frame and fork may only cost $200 from the Chinese manufacturer. In Spain, we will paint, decal, assemble, and box the bike for shipping to the U.S.

Our cost to paint, decal, assemble, and box might be $300 and the cost of the components might be another $800.

So is this bike “Made in China” or “Made in Spain?” According to the bike industry's definition, the bike is made in Spain. The sticker will say “Made in Spain” as will the shipping box to the United States because over 60% of the value will be added in Spain."

"Let’s say we take the same frame and have the Chinese manufacturer paint it, decal it, assemble it into a bicycle, and ship it to Spain. When we ship it to the United States, the label will have to say “Made in China.” "
jeebusaurousrex is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 10:29 AM
  #12  
Jaytron
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
Thread Starter
 
Jaytron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 4,224

Bikes: CAAD 10 4, Dolan DF4, Fuji Track Classic

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Phantoj View Post
In a way, that is what the OP is doing: soliciting experiences with recent generic Chinese carbon frames.

(Unfortunately, the OP is getting more "values and biases" than experiences so far.)
Yeah pretty much :\ I know people out there have done it. The first link posted is a ton of help though

Originally Posted by jeebusaurousrex View Post
Seems like the original was taken down (or I just can't find it), but here's a webcache of the old "where was my bike made" article from 2007 or so.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...www.google.com

Here are some choice quotes:

"Generally speaking, low to mid level bikes are made in China and mid to high level bikes are made in Taiwan. The exception is carbon; many manufacturers use Chinese manufacturers to make their carbon frames – even their high-end racing frames."

"A typical rule of thumb is that the country claiming origin has to add 60% or more of the value of the final product.

For example, you and I can import an unpainted carbon fiber racing frame from China to Spain which will ultimately retail for $4,000 with Shimano components in the United States.

The frame and fork may only cost $200 from the Chinese manufacturer. In Spain, we will paint, decal, assemble, and box the bike for shipping to the U.S.

Our cost to paint, decal, assemble, and box might be $300 and the cost of the components might be another $800.

So is this bike “Made in China” or “Made in Spain?” According to the bike industry's definition, the bike is made in Spain. The sticker will say “Made in Spain” as will the shipping box to the United States because over 60% of the value will be added in Spain."

"Let’s say we take the same frame and have the Chinese manufacturer paint it, decal it, assemble it into a bicycle, and ship it to Spain. When we ship it to the United States, the label will have to say “Made in China.” "
That's very interesting... Thanks for the info.
Jaytron is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 10:31 AM
  #13  
intence
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It's hit or miss, but if you follow the thread on RBR, you should be able to find a reputable vendor. The problem is little to no support, and resale as mentioned earlier.

Why not just get a PedalForce CG2? Group buy ends on the 7th, but if they have 50 people (and it seems very likely they will), it will be $450 + 100 for the fork. In the same price range as the Chinese frames, but you get to deal with a reputable company and get a warranty.
intence is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 11:33 AM
  #14  
Inertianinja
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,774

Bikes: Felt AR1, Cervelo S2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This has been debated a lot - but i don't remember anyone ever posting any objective evidence that there was anything systematically (as opposed to individual examples) wrong with the frames themselves.

i've heard lots of arguments on the periphery, like the "confidence of buying from a brand name" and the "peace of mind" of a warranty and the "serious doubts" that some people have. again, no consistent problems with the product itself that i'm aware of.

I'm sure there are a few anecdotes you can find of individual problems, but remember that if you search for problems with any product, you'll find them. hell, i can point to two outright design flaws on the two cervelo's i've owned, one of which could result in a crash at speed. i'm not aware of any of these "no name chinese" frames just exploding on the road.

I think the bottom like will probably be that they're fine to ride, and you just accept that if something is seriously wrong, you might not be able to get it warranty replaced. but you might save enough money that the lack of warranty becomes a good bet.
Inertianinja is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 11:45 AM
  #15  
BrainInAJar
Senior Member
 
BrainInAJar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jaytron View Post
I know people out there have done it. The first link posted is a ton of help though
Yes, I've done it. My race machine is ebay carbon, and I'm quite happy with it. I would buy another.
BrainInAJar is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 11:52 AM
  #16  
Genaro
Senior Member
 
Genaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Rosena Ranch, Ca.
Posts: 1,244

Bikes: Motobecane Immortal Force

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Look at this build.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ke-buildthread.
Genaro is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 11:55 AM
  #17  
Inertianinja
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,774

Bikes: Felt AR1, Cervelo S2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BrainInAJar View Post
Yes, I've done it. My race machine is ebay carbon, and I'm quite happy with it. I would buy another.
I would get one to race. I just don't like the shapes of most of them, and god i hate the look of 12k
Inertianinja is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 11:57 AM
  #18  
Genaro
Senior Member
 
Genaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Rosena Ranch, Ca.
Posts: 1,244

Bikes: Motobecane Immortal Force

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I love 12K!
Genaro is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 11:59 AM
  #19  
Inertianinja
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,774

Bikes: Felt AR1, Cervelo S2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Genaro View Post
I love 12K!
There's a girl who rides around here who has one of these frames. She had a custom decal made that says "I DON'T KNOW" on the down tube.

so when people pass her and ask what brand of bike it is, she points to the down tube. lol
Inertianinja is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 12:18 PM
  #20  
Jaytron
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
Thread Starter
 
Jaytron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 4,224

Bikes: CAAD 10 4, Dolan DF4, Fuji Track Classic

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BrainInAJar View Post
Yes, I've done it. My race machine is ebay carbon, and I'm quite happy with it. I would buy another.
Awesome! How long have you been racing with it?

Originally Posted by Genaro View Post
Thanks for the link, I'll definitely check that out.

Originally Posted by Inertianinja View Post
There's a girl who rides around here who has one of these frames. She had a custom decal made that says "I DON'T KNOW" on the down tube.

so when people pass her and ask what brand of bike it is, she points to the down tube. lol
That's pretty awesome. Hahaha
Jaytron is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 01:03 PM
  #21  
Genaro
Senior Member
 
Genaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Rosena Ranch, Ca.
Posts: 1,244

Bikes: Motobecane Immortal Force

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Inertianinja View Post
There's a girl who rides around here who has one of these frames. She had a custom decal made that says "I DON'T KNOW" on the down tube.

so when people pass her and ask what brand of bike it is, she points to the down tube. lol
That's pretty cool, maybe I"ll get one and have a custom sticke that reads "cheap no name chinese carbon frame"
Genaro is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 01:08 PM
  #22  
bonz50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Antioch, IL
Posts: 2,330

Bikes: 2013 Synapse 4

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post


this one got some lulz outta me...
bonz50 is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 01:29 PM
  #23  
halfspeed
Senior Member
 
halfspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: SE Minnesota
Posts: 12,275

Bikes: are better than yours.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Read Bob Dopolina's posts in this thread.
__________________
Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.
halfspeed is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 01:35 PM
  #24  
dayday82
Senior Member
 
dayday82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 703

Bikes: 2010 Fuji Roubaix 2.0. 2006 Iron Horse Azure Expert

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bonz50 View Post


this one got some lulz outta me...
That's hiliarious
dayday82 is offline  
Old 08-01-11, 01:50 PM
  #25  
ddimick
Senior Member
 
ddimick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, California
Posts: 160

Bikes: 2011 Look 566 Ultegra, 2010 Specialized Sirrus Sport

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by halfspeed View Post
Read Bob Dopolina's posts in this thread.
That's a good and informative thread. To summarize:

1) Just because it's Chinese doesn't mean it's crap.
2) Just because it's Chinese doesn't mean it's good.
3) You probably do not have the knowledge or equipment to tell the difference.
ddimick is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.