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Open Pros on their last leg, what's the next step

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Open Pros on their last leg, what's the next step

Old 08-01-11, 09:01 PM
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clfjmpr44
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Open Pros on their last leg, what's the next step

Long time since i've been around these parts, but I need help. The Ultegra Mavic Open Pros are on there way out on my Habanero, what's a good upgrade wheel over the open pro. I'm 215 lbs., but I don't think that puts too many wheels out of my reach. Looking for a great all-purpose training/recreational wheel.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-01-11, 09:20 PM
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Open Pro rims suck. They crack and they make a weak wheel.

Try Velocity deep V or KinLin XR300s. Deeper "aero" rims are stronger and stiffer.

If your hubs are still good you can get them laced up on the old hubs.
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Old 08-01-11, 09:30 PM
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Rol, Boyd, Williams, November or Zipp
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Old 08-01-11, 09:43 PM
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The rear hub is definitely starting to go, What hubs would you lace eric?
Bostongarden: A little more detail on models if you get a chance?
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Old 08-01-11, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
Open Pro rims suck. They crack and they make a weak wheel.
I disagree.

OP - how long have you ridden yours? Miles? Opinion?
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Old 08-01-11, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by clfjmpr44 View Post
The rear hub is definitely starting to go, What hubs would you lace eric?
Bostongarden: A little more detail on models if you get a chance?
if you have a lot of cash, Chris King or Alchemy hubs. If you aren't willing to spend as much, White Industry (still very very good, it's what i'd buy), Dura Ace or ultegra hubs (heavy, but will last a long time).
Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
Open Pro rims suck. They crack and they make a weak wheel.

Try Velocity deep V or KinLin XR300s. Deeper "aero" rims are stronger and stiffer.

If your hubs are still good you can get them laced up on the old hubs.
+1. If stiffness is really a concern, you can even go up to the XR 380: 560g at 38mm deep.

Last edited by echappist; 08-01-11 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 08-01-11, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
Open Pro rims suck. They crack and they make a weak wheel.

Try Velocity deep V or KinLin XR300s. Deeper "aero" rims are stronger and stiffer.
I tried Kinlin XR300s and was not impressed. I've never encountered a rim that was that hard to get tires (Continentals) on (not possible without tools until I replaced my Velox rim tape with Veloplugs) and off (still takes tools). Tension variation was more extreme than Mavic rims. And there seems to be excessive variation in ERD across my 3 examples (2mm, with the smallest 1mm bigger than on-line specs).

Stick to the Velocity rims; perhaps the Fusion.

At 200 pounds you do want to stay away from shallow box section rims since they're easier to bend on obstacles than deeper/heaver rims at Clydestale weights.
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Old 08-01-11, 11:40 PM
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Eh? Just buy a new Open Pro rim and relace the hub. Or a different rim. I recommend DT Swiss rims if you are going for strength. No need to replace the entire wheel.
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Old 08-02-11, 01:10 AM
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I'll second the White Ind. hubs. They are high quality and have good flange geometry, making a strong rear wheel.
See http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/view...hp?f=65&t=6940
Ultegra are heavy but reliable and cheap.

I went through three OP rims on my powertap hub. They lasted about 9 months each. They rattled- there are often small loose piece inside them. XR270s last about twice that, and should go longer if I ensure the spoke tension is less than 110 kgf. (I ride about 8000 miles/yr). I'd recommend XR270s but they are a little light for your weight. Hence the XR300s. OPs make a weak wheel because they are low profile rims. Taller profile rims have a larger cross section, making them stiffer. You want a stiff rim because it resists bending. When a rim bends it detensions the spokes. The non drive side spokes are already at a low tension because of the wheel dish (offset for the cassette). When the wheel flexes too much the NDS spokes detension enough that they flex, and then they eventually break.
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Old 08-02-11, 02:41 AM
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Service the old hubs and relace them to some aero- or semi-aero hoops. Velocity, Mavic, Kinlin, DT Swiss, etc, they all make suitable rims. I think you'd want something at least 25mm deep, though.
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Old 08-02-11, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by tFUnK View Post
Service the old hubs and relace them to some aero- or semi-aero hoops. Velocity, Mavic, Kinlin, DT Swiss, etc, they all make suitable rims. I think you'd want something at least 25mm deep, though.
Edit: I don't like Open Pros, either. They are alright in terms of weight but they do not make a strong wheel, especially not for bigger riders or on rougher street surfaces.
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Old 08-02-11, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
I tried Kinlin XR300s and was not impressed. I've never encountered a rim that was that hard to get tires (Continentals) on (not possible without tools until I replaced my Velox rim tape with Veloplugs) and off (still takes tools).
I take my tires on/off with just my hands all the time on Kinlin XR300's. Great rim IMO. Close to the same weight as an open pro.
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Old 08-02-11, 05:29 AM
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I have never had an issue with Open Pro's and my favorite and long time wheel builder is a big fan. I am riding OP's on CK R45 hubs, 32 spoke for training and find them stiff and durable.
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Old 08-02-11, 05:47 AM
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Man this place has changed...a few years back any time someone asked what they should get for wheels the standard reply was Open Pro/Ultegra. I don't know what sort of build you guys are doing that gets a weak wheel out of an Open Pro but 32 spokes 3x gets a pretty bombproof wheel IMO.

But honestly technology moves forward and the Open Pro is a pretty old rim. I do like the Kinlin XR300 and am seriously thinking about trying some of those Velocity A23s. Though if the OP is rough on wheels the Velocity Fusion might be a good selection, not as heavy as the DeepV but more durable than the Aero Head.
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Old 08-02-11, 05:56 AM
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Honestly, to those of you complaining about the Open Pro: have you ever actually laced a set of wheels yourself? Ever laced using Open Pros vs the competition? Mavic rims have always been very good out of the box for me, and what's more is they wear well. I cannot say the same about Velocity; the Aeroheads I worked with were noticeably lower quality than Open Pros, finished more like an Open Sport. I haven't tried Kinlin, but the next set I build will likely be using DT or Ambrosio rims.
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Old 08-02-11, 06:27 AM
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I don't think its possible to wear out an ultegra hub in less than 30000 miles. Have you tried cleaning out the grease and repacking the bearings? You should probably be doing this every 5000 miles or more often if you ride in the rain a lot. Its really easy to do, you just need two cone wrenches. The balls and cones are replaceable and cheap it they need to be replaced.
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Old 08-02-11, 06:28 AM
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I've been very happy with Open Pro's but have found something better.

I was 230 lbs and have dropped down to 210. I put 8000 miles on a set of 32 spoke Open Pro/Shimano 105 wheels. The only needed tensioning once @ 1000 miles. Great wheels.

I sold these with a bike and now have Velocity A23/Shimano 105 wheels. These are just as light but are stiffer and wider at 23mm v 19mm for most rims. These improve the ride quality by increasing air volume. This allows about a 10 Lbs (psi) reduction in air pressure without any performance loss. They also improve cornering.
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Old 08-02-11, 06:32 AM
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From what several people have said here over the years. Open Pro's manufactured more recently aren't the same quality as older ones. Open Pro's used to be known as very durable; in the last few years there are many complaints of cracking. How easy they lace when built has nothing to do with the cracking complaints.
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Old 08-02-11, 06:38 AM
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I just put 30,000 miles on a pair of Open Pro/Ultegra wheels (Powertap hub in back). They are still fine to ride and would easily be good for another 10,000 miles. I have regreased them once a year. I am saving them for a spare.

I just replaced them with some Boyd Vitesse's. Seem like great wheels. The hubs are amazing. They are the smoothest spinning hubs I have ever seen. I gave them a spin on my bike stand and went down in my basement to run a errand. When I got back out into my garage, the damn things were still spinning. I even had to ask my wife if she spun them again.
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Old 08-02-11, 06:40 AM
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Op if you don't mind spending a little cash the dura ace wheelset is probably be a good match for you.
http://www.realcyclist.com/shimano-d...:referralID=NA
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Old 08-02-11, 08:06 AM
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Thanks for all of the suggestions, I've been looking at the Velocity Fusions, but will definitely add some of these other suggestions to the mix A23, Boyd Vitesse or Kinlin. I've ridden my Ultegra OPs for
10,000 miles, but the disclaimer is I was not their first owner, so I'm not sure of their provenance (wish their was a Carfax on them!)
In that time I have loved the OPs. A great wheel that has done everything I asked of them. Now, I'm looking to go a little lighter (my ops are 36 hole) and spend a little more, and I'm interested in a new
drug.
Grasschopper, good to see you're still running around these parts!
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Old 08-02-11, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
Open Pro rims suck. They crack and they make a weak wheel.
Thousands of folks would disagree. I know I do.
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Old 08-02-11, 09:04 AM
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Geez - had to fight the urge to want to pimp slap my monitor while reading this thread. While it's nice to know that people don't think I am out here advertising with my posts anymore and becuase I no longer come up as the first go-to suggestion for wheel builds I finally feel I can start to actually chime in on wheel threads without there being a 50 page tirade about how I am guerilla marketing.

So with that in mind - let's begin...

Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
I tried Kinlin XR300s and was not impressed. I've never encountered a rim that was that hard to get tires (Continentals) on (not possible without tools until I replaced my Velox rim tape with Veloplugs) and off (still takes tools).
Congrats on having tiny weak hands. This complaint about rims never ceases to amaze me. I find it akin to complaining about the freehub driver noise. Having personally sold around 400-600 kinlins and equipped so many local riders and team riders with them where I have changed tires and tube endlessly for 3 years or so...quite simple....I call BS. YMMV

Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
Tension variation was more extreme than Mavic rims. And there seems to be excessive variation in ERD across my 3 examples (2mm, with the smallest 1mm bigger than on-line specs).

Stick to the Velocity rims; perhaps the Fusion.

At 200 pounds you do want to stay away from shallow box section rims since they're easier to bend on obstacles than deeper/heaver rims at Clydestale weights.
Tension variation has to do completely with the build and sign of a poor quality builder or one who hasn't built with that rim very often.

Here's what I personally have found with Kinlin after building hundreds of them:
1. They aren't round from the factory. They have 2 "flat" spots in them where the welding clamps grabbed the rim in processing. These are slight/minor flats that I would venture to guess that 98% of the builders using them are not even aware of and 99% don't know how to ply these features into a round rim.

2. They are "harder" to build with than a great big stocky Velocity Deep V or DT RR585. Considering most of the home or shop/infrequent builders do NOT have much experience plying the craft of wheelbuilding they tend to chalk this up as a sign of an inferior rim instead of acknowledging that it's the builder's lack of experience. Wheelbuilding is a skill that must be practiced. Just because someone built a good set a year ago doesn't mean they know how to build a good set now.

Higher "quality" rims are really just heavier rims that just don't deflect as much during manufacturing. When you want the depth and light weight of a Kinlin setup then you have to approach the build differently than you do with a stout rim.

As for OP's. They are a high quality rim, but here's the thing - I see more crack at the nipples/eyelets than I used to many moons ago. Don't know if it's a sign of the change in manufacture or a sign of increasingly poor build quality as all the old timers retire, pass on, and leave the building to machines.

OP's are an easy "go to". That is why they used to get recommended so often. They are a lighter rim that used to be readily available in 32 drllings all set to pair up with nice quality Ultegra hubs. Yay.

It's still a nice option for many, but honestly the Ultegra hub is fairly piggish and the rim is not as stout as it should be for use under many of the riders it is suggested to.

Fusions crack often too. I am not a Velocity hater at all in fact I use a ton of Velocity rims that I love. Fusions are just not one of them.

I pretty regularly recommend a kinlin to anyone around 200 and below. Over 2 bills and I am requesting you step up to a Deep V or RR585. Why? because it works.
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Old 08-02-11, 09:08 AM
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Oh...and while we are on OP's....start looking for alternatives. Last year at Interbike while talking to Mavic they basically said the following: "We sell pre-builts. Don't you want to just sell pre-builts? No? Well, I THINK we are still selling individual components to wheelbuilders. Hmmmm" Looks around "OH! I think they're over there."

We walk to a tiny corner in their $100k+ booth/display and find a tiny section about 1 ft wide that had rim sections in it.

"Here you go! We are whittling those offerings down every year and at some point I anticipate we will get out of the individual rim market all together like we already did with hubs."

...."have you seen our new clothes line? Will make a great add on sale in your shop!"
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Old 08-02-11, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by BillyD View Post
Thousands of folks would disagree. I know I do.
I'm with eric. OP's do suck.

Happy Kinlin user here. And all my tires go on/off by hand (Conti Gatorskins and GP4000's).
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