Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Not sure I understand "Entry level"

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Not sure I understand "Entry level"

Old 08-02-11, 07:05 PM
  #1  
SHIM_105
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 150
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Not sure I understand "Entry level"

Right now I'm riding a steel frame Pinarello Asolo. I was looking at getting a Pinarello FP1. I did some reading and discovered a lot of pro reviews and bike sites list it as an entry level bike. I beg to differ. Personally I would rank a wallmart or target bike as entry level. I know it's not a Dogma or Prince, but I don't compete so weight is not a real concern. I could have the top of the line bike, and a guy like Lance Armstrong will still beat me using a BMX on any tour.
SHIM_105 is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 07:11 PM
  #2  
roby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 188

Bikes: `09 Tarmac Comp, `09 FSR XC Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
entry level bike, in it's category. As in, racing category. The walmart bike doesn't even enter the racing category.
roby is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 07:18 PM
  #3  
Mike F
Senior Member
 
Mike F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,180

Bikes: 2017 Specilized Roubaix, 2012 Scott CR1 Team, Felt Z85

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
From my experience an entry level bike is any bike that costs less than the guy's bike your talking too. Im guessing its going to be called entry level because of Tiagra componants.
Mike F is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 07:52 PM
  #4  
speedemon
Senior Member
 
speedemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 368

Bikes: Seven Cycles (Ti) Litespeed (Ti) Cannondale CAAD8

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike F View Post
Im guessing its going to be called entry level because of Tiagra componants.
I would consider the Sora components more entry level than Tiagra!
speedemon is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 07:53 PM
  #5  
pdedes
ka maté ka maté ka ora
 
pdedes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: wessex
Posts: 4,423

Bikes: breezer venturi - red novo bosberg - red, pedal force cg1 - red, neuvation f-100 - da, devinci phantom - xt, miele piste - miche/campy, bianchi reparto corse sbx, concorde squadra tsx - da, miele team issue sl - ultegra

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wally world specials are rear entry level
pdedes is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 07:59 PM
  #6  
John_V 
Senior Member
 
John_V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 5,299

Bikes: 2017 Colnago C-RS, 2012 Colnago Ace, 2010 Giant Cypress hybrid

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Some companies, like Giant, classify entry level bikes according to frame material and components. The Defy aluminum series are Endurance Road bikes and are classified as entry level. However, the Defy Advanced are CF frames and are not entry level bikes. The Defy's are also 9 speed drivetrains (2300, Sora and Tiagra) whereas the Defy Advanced are 10 speed (105, Ultegra and Dura Ace). I'm sure that all the manufacturers follow the same line of thinking.
__________________
HCFR Cycling Team
Ride Safe ... Ride Hard ... Ride Daily

2017 Colnago C-RS
2012 Colnago Ace
2010 Giant Cypress
John_V is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 08:26 PM
  #7  
hhnngg1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Entry level = $700 bike at LBS today.

Walmart bike = bike-shaped object.

There is no comparison between the two - not even close. However, there is only a marginal speed difference between a $700 bike and a $10,000 bike - like <2%, for real. Entry-level bike typically have lowest-end components by Shimano for road bikes (Either 2200/2300 or Sora.)
hhnngg1 is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 08:58 PM
  #8  
abikemechanic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I am going to disagree with the <2%. I think there is quite a difference between an aluminum trek 1.1 and andy schleck's cf madone 6.9 he rode in the tour de france.
abikemechanic is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 09:07 PM
  #9  
datlas 
Beyond Bogus
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 28,286

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 386 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8523 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 53 Posts
Originally Posted by abikemechanic View Post
I am going to disagree with the <2%. I think there is quite a difference between an aluminum trek 1.1 and andy schleck's cf madone 6.9 he rode in the tour de france.
Agree. Maybe 3 or 4%.
__________________
Originally Posted by RUOkie View Post
never underestimate the idiocy of BF.
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
Originally Posted by seedsbelize View Post
Better to just stay out of the 41
datlas is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 09:12 PM
  #10  
StanSeven
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Delaware shore
Posts: 13,079

Bikes: Cervelo C5, Guru Photon, Waterford, Specialized CX

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 32 Times in 29 Posts
Originally Posted by roby View Post
entry level bike, in it's category. As in, racing category.
This answers it all. Entry level is a generic term manufacturers use as starters for racing. You can read as much or as little into it as you want.
StanSeven is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 09:16 PM
  #11  
Nerull
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Most hobbies are that way. 'Entry Level' is generally a sizable step from from the 'toy' level, which is where I would put walmart bikes.
Nerull is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 09:19 PM
  #12  
urbanknight
In beaurocratic limbo
 
urbanknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 22,456

Bikes: Specialized Allez, K2 Razorback

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike F View Post
From my experience an entry level bike is any bike that costs less than the guy's bike your talking too.
I like that. Mind if I use it some time?
__________________
"Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)
urbanknight is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 09:28 PM
  #13  
Mike F
Senior Member
 
Mike F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,180

Bikes: 2017 Specilized Roubaix, 2012 Scott CR1 Team, Felt Z85

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
I like that. Mind if I use it some time?
By all means
Mike F is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 09:31 PM
  #14  
ultraman6970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Entry level is in the eye of the beholder in my opinion. Some people doesnt know any better than sora and they love that junk and anything that is ultegra for them is like a machine coming from god land no matter how good the frame is.

Another good example, some ugly frames are being sold with Dura - ace components, do you call them entry level? Racing worth level?? the frame is so bad that I wouldn't race on that at all but it has dura - ace. New class? fugly level?? All depends.
ultraman6970 is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 10:18 PM
  #15  
eippo1 
I like beans
 
eippo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Meffa, MA
Posts: 3,353

Bikes: Tarmac Pro, Bianchi Zurigo, Raleigh Gran Sport, Fuji Del Rey, Ironman Centurion

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Entry level can also refer to entry level carbon, which means nothing more that it's the cheapest all carbon bike they sell. These bikes are hardly entry level and it is a misnomer.
__________________
You got it buddy: the large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

2009 Dean El Diente Superlite
2011 Bianchi Zurigo CX
2005 Specialized Sworks E5 "Calamity"
2007 Fuji Thrill LT1.0
199? Tommasini ? (pending build)
2001 Della Santa
eippo1 is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 10:23 PM
  #16  
fenny
Commuter
 
fenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Parker, Colorado
Posts: 140

Bikes: jamis quest, scattante romá, raleigh c40

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
In this case, the FP1 is not a carbon bike, it's aluminum with carbon seat stays and fork.
fenny is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 10:50 PM
  #17  
haaseg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 379

Bikes: 2010 FUJI SL-1 Comp

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So... on the 2% vs 4% difference thing... you're basically talking about what?

I have 105 groupo on my Fuji SL-1 Comp and recently rented a CAAD8 for a week while on a business trip. In climbing various hills around the area where I rented, I found two significant differences:
1. Going from a 10-speed cassette to an 8-speed cassette resulted in rougher climbing because there are more teeth between shifts
2. With the Sora shifters, you can't actually shift to a higher gear while you are in the drops - I found this to be a huge pain.

I found the differences to be quite significant and I am very glad I opted to spend a little more for something with 105 or better.
haaseg is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 11:07 PM
  #18  
hhnngg1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by haaseg View Post
So... on the 2% vs 4% difference thing... you're basically talking about what?

I have 105 groupo on my Fuji SL-1 Comp and recently rented a CAAD8 for a week while on a business trip. In climbing various hills around the area where I rented, I found two significant differences:
1. Going from a 10-speed cassette to an 8-speed cassette resulted in rougher climbing because there are more teeth between shifts
2. With the Sora shifters, you can't actually shift to a higher gear while you are in the drops - I found this to be a huge pain.

I found the differences to be quite significant and I am very glad I opted to spend a little more for something with 105 or better.
We're talking speed difference. There is no doubt that Ultegra shifts more smoothly than Sora, but does it actually get you any faster? No.

I'd be surprised if it was as large as a 4% difference. That would mean that riding those two bikes in one-hour time trial, that there would be a 2 and a half minute difference between the finishing times.

In comparison AEROBARS can't even give that big a difference, and aerobars are considered the single biggest structural advantage you can make to a bike to actually make it faster. (Far exceeding wheels, helmet, aero frame, by a 3-4x factor.) Most tests have had an aerobar equipped bike (with proper TT position) coming in at 40sec/hr, maybe 1 minute tops over a non-aerobar equipped bike. And the aerobars are going to give you way bigger of an advantage between an entry level bike and a $10k bike sans aerobars with today's generation of bikes.

Even on hills, where weight is more of a factor, the difference isn't significant enough - today's entry level bikes are 19,20 lbs max. (My Giant Defy3 is 20.5 lbs with heavy clunker wheels and pedals.) Even on a all uphill one-hour course, a 3-4 lbs difference (or even a 7lbs difference) isn't going to give you a 2 minute gap, and that's the best of circumstances.

I'd be surprised if the actually difference between today's entry level bikes and the high-end ones is greater than 2% speed difference given this. Aero frames, regardless of design, give only a fraction of the gains of aerobars (like 1/8th-1/10th), and again, aerobars don't even give you a 2% advantage.

I won't deny however, that shifting with Di2 and riding a Cervelo brand name with bling all over your bike may give you a mental advantage that gives you 2 minutes in training! And of course, shifting will be superior on the expensive bikes - but shifting doesn't win races.

Last edited by hhnngg1; 08-02-11 at 11:14 PM.
hhnngg1 is offline  
Old 08-02-11, 11:33 PM
  #19  
haaseg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 379

Bikes: 2010 FUJI SL-1 Comp

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hhnngg1 View Post
We're talking speed difference.
You're talking about some fantasy measurement where you have the absolute perfect rider doing things absolutely perfectly with perfect form in a perfect environment.

My personal experience is that climbing hills with a 10 gear cassette is much smoother and much easier than with an 8 gear cassette, which means I can climb faster, climb smoother with less jarring to the system, and climb more efficiently. It equates to less suffering and more energy for the rest of the ride. Just coasting down hill, I don't have that all perfect form, and I can get about 3-4 mph faster if I'm in the drops vs on the hoods. Which... when going between 30 and 35 miles an hour is what... 10%?

So taking into consideration the abilities of your average cyclist trying to decide between entry level and enthusiast level, I'm going to say it's a much bigger difference.
haaseg is offline  
Old 08-03-11, 02:55 AM
  #20  
patentcad
Peloton Shelter Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,401

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Ultegra Di2 is now the new entry level kid.
__________________
http://www.cotsiscad.com
patentcad is offline  
Old 08-03-11, 04:28 AM
  #21  
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,638

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by John_V View Post
Some companies, like Giant, classify entry level bikes according to frame material and components. The Defy aluminum series are Endurance Road bikes and are classified as entry level. However, the Defy Advanced are CF frames and are not entry level bikes. The Defy's are also 9 speed drivetrains (2300, Sora and Tiagra) whereas the Defy Advanced are 10 speed (105, Ultegra and Dura Ace). I'm sure that all the manufacturers follow the same line of thinking.
Defy 3 with Sora comes with an 8 speed casette.
roadwarrior is offline  
Old 08-03-11, 04:30 AM
  #22  
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,638

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Ultegra Di2 is now the new entry level kid.
Just ignore him. He's attracted to bright shiny things and easily distracted. When the next new thingy comes along, he'll be first in line to buy it.
roadwarrior is offline  
Old 08-03-11, 04:35 AM
  #23  
STP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pdedes View Post
wally world specials are rear entry level
lol!
STP is offline  
Old 08-03-11, 05:01 AM
  #24  
tessartype
Senior Member
 
tessartype's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Posts: 210

Bikes: 2009 Felt B2 Pro, 2009 Trek 1.2, '80s Hercules beater

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hhnngg1 View Post
but shifting doesn't win races.
Tell that to Schleck.

I ride a Sora-equipped Trek 1.2 (from the year before they got Tiagra RDs) and, well, it sucks. The components, not the frame. Sure, when freshly adjusted, even the FD shifts reasonably quick, and the RD can cope with pressure and - but even my huge hands can barely shift from the drops (which costs time & aero-position). At the same time, the easy rotation of the brake-lever (to shift) can be unnerving - a single-purpose lever would be my choice.

And what makes this entry-level, then? Because while the frame weighs 1.5kg (reasonably light - just ~300-400g more than same-vintage carbon weighed) and works out reasonably stiff, just upgrading the groupset (or wheels!) would double the money spent on that bike. For the price of a high-mid level grouppo (say, Rival, Athena or 105/Ultegra), plus a set of reasonable wheels (Ksyrium Equipes, say - just my rear wheel weighs more than a set of those), installation and other bits'n'bobs, I could have... A brand-spanking new Canyon CF frame with exactly those parts, and it'd weigh 7.3kg.
tessartype is offline  
Old 08-03-11, 05:05 AM
  #25  
znomit
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
 
znomit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,761

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Scott Sub 35

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 171 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 10 Posts
Entry level
znomit is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.