gadabout007

Problem one of them was my boss, so I can't complain too loudly about the damage to my bike.

I ride pretty regularly with one of my coworkers... 2000+ kilometers in 2010. He knows the lingo, picks good lines, uses hand signals etc. This ride was a short 50k route and we brought along two coworkers who are green to group riding but are able to keep a decent pace.

We started fine, I did the first pull for about five minutes then dropped back as my experienced coworker took his pull. Next came one of the inexperienced riders. Soon were riding too close to the gutter... through water filled pot holes, gravel, and over sewer grates.

I increased the gap, (obviously not enough) so I could dodge the obstacles the train was driving through. This went on for a few kilometers then the last of the four of us took their turn up front. As he took the lead, he realized that we we had over shot our route and hit the brakes... Hard!

My attention being divided between the craters in the road and the rider in front of me, I missed the front coming to a stop and had to lock 'em up. Luckily I managed to come to the left of the rider in front of me and and nailed his crank arm. I think I gave him a rectal exam with my right brifter and fist. Somehow me and the bike ended up on the grass between the sidewalk and the gutter still clipped in.

I'm kinda pissed because it was totally unnecessary to stop like that, doubling back and regrouping isn't the end of the world. Now I have an ugly scuff on my crank and I have to buy a new tire.

I've got to find a way to broach the subject of riding in a group without coming off as a prick pointing fingers and saying it was your fault.

Seattle Forrest

Sorry to hear it, man. I'd complain about it at the next meeting ... but you don't want to take my advice. If you're comfortable enough with your boss to ride together, though, you shouldn't worry about complaining about almost killing you. Other than the tire, it's cosmetic though, right?

I'm pretty sure that's illegal in California.

longbeachgary

Dude, that's one dirty bike.

globecanvas

Yeah yeah. We know you really just wanted to show us photos of your Di2.

DScott

You gotta give new riders plenty of room until they're not new any more.

Bring it up by asking him/them, "So, how'd you like the ride?" If they realize some of the drama was because of their actions, that's good. If they remain steadfastly clueless, don't ride with them. If you do decide to ride with them, see my first comment.

longbeachgary

Not only is it legal, it is encouraged!!!!!

justadude

During the beginning of going through potholes, puddles and gutters and stuff, you might have taken initiative to call a time out, and talk about group riding, avoiding obstacles, hand signals, not braking hard at the front. Too late when the ride's over. I'd want to cool down completely and let it go. But have a friendly talk with them about group riding before starting on another ride together.

spock

And his cross-chaining abilities.

Sourpuss Magee

What's 2000 kilometers in American?

mooska

I think you just change the kilometers to miles.

spock

Yep. 2000 miles.

gadabout007

Yea, it's entirely cosmetic, but it's the first thing I'll see when I look at the bike now.

if it aint dirty, you aint riding it enough. Seriously though, I keep my bikes pristine. It has rained here for the last five days. You can't keep them clean and in the stable for that long.

Duly noted. The one coworker that I ride with all the time suggested that the two inexperienced riders ride together for a while and get used to being in close quarters. Probably not a bad idea.

note to self... Next visit to California bring antirape belt

You're probably right, I did shout out once that it's not raining and I'm completely soaked hoping they'd take the hint. I didn't want to be the buzz-kill. When I started group riding, I rode with a family friend who would yell at you for the most minor infraction and freak out and go home should anyone overlap his wheel. You ride in a group you're taking a risk. I have two different people that I regularly ride with. If I could add two more riders to the mix, that would be fantastic.

My boss doesn't take criticism well. I found a document that covers group riding safety that I think I'll email to all three tomorrow morning. https://www.pearlandcyclingclub.org/safety-SpaceCity.pdf Maybe word it in such a way that I'm trying to make them aware of what they need to know so "they" can stay safe in the pack.

with Di2 there is no such thing as "cross-chaining"

1243 miles

gladiator13

You're still putting tension on the chain by riding big ring in the front and big ring in the back. You're just rubbing it on the derailleur. right?

gadabout007

worse case scenario you prematurely wear out the chain. They're a cheap consumable IMHO.

the front derailleur is constantly adjusting itself based on what the rear derailleur is doing so you never experience chatter on your front derailleur.

spock

Isn't that the main reason big to big is not advisable? It could also damage your chain ring teeth or cassette if you are pushing hard. Worst case scenario, your chain could snap if done often.

mmmdonuts

I think every good advice has been given except for one thing: You don't HAVE to follow the wheel in front of you. I have ridden in all kinds of groups and when I follow less experienced people or ones whose lines I don't like I ride my own. It's better for me and those behind me. The people behind me appreciate when I keep a steady straight line when those in front of me are all over the place. I look ahead, not at the butt in front of me, so that I can spot the hazards and hopefully react in time and smoothly.

tadawdy

I don't think so. Actually, I'm pretty sure that big-big would be preferable for chain wear, as the load is more dispersed. The problem is the chainline, a poor one causing multiplanar forces (angled) on the chain.

If your gear ratios, and therefore cadences and forces, were the same, and the chainline is good, you'd be better off with the big-big combo.

Homebrew01

Sounds like you're a bit of a newb at riding with newbs. Chalk it up lesson learned and stop complaining.

Runner 1

Hmm... I was looking for a face-palm emoticon but I couldn't find one.

spock

if big/big were in a better chain line, no problems. Angle is what makes it wear.

gadabout007

From the mouth of a Shimano Robotics Engineer. Videos #2 & #3 cover cross-chaining and trim. Don't take my word for it.

https://www.invodo.com/Shimano-Dura-A...tem/p/Z1BE1403

Touche

Edit to add. In the photo it's at 50/23 there is still one cog to go before 50/25

spock

That is the sad part. He is the vice president or a tech, and he said "When you are cross chained and you are in big to big". Thing is, you shouldn't be in big to big.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDPc1WqT2PE

gadabout007

Your attached video...

A) is a mechanical groupset
B) at 0:48 he says "Could prematurely wear your chain out" See post #14

I appreciate your concern, but I'm confident the system is designed to handle the worst of what I'm capable of dishing out.

Nerull

You have an electronic chain and cassette? Why hasn't Shimano released this wonderful technology that doesn't suffer from crosschaining?

The problems with cross chaining cannot be solved by Di2 because they have nothing to do with the derailleurs.

longbeachgary

It doesn't really look like dirt, it looks more like salt.