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Climbing cassettes 12-32 and the new 12-30

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Climbing cassettes 12-32 and the new 12-30

Old 08-20-11, 03:21 PM
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davida
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Climbing cassettes 12-32 and the new 12-30

My regular rides involve climbing. I'm not 27 any more and I need to look after my knees.

I currently have Ultegra 6700 compact with 11-28 on the back.

That is

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28

SRAM can do

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32

and

12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-32

The new Tiagra 10 4600 cassette with hyperglide is

12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30

I think I can do without the 11 if I get a closer gear spacing elsewhere

So the options are the 12-32 SRAM which is very well spaced except for the big jump to the 32 granny gear or the Tiagra which is almost the same spacing as I currently run, but without the 11 and with the 30.

If I go for the Tiagra apart from changing the chain length, will I need a new RD to handle the 30 tooth. If I keep my current RD and cross chain (50-30), (a) what happens - does it lock up or something and (b) could I just change the cassette and test ride being carefull not to cross chain just to see how it goes.

Also, what is the difference in performance between the Tiagra cassette and the Ultegra version?

PS The trade off of the 12 for the 30 is a no brainer. On my ride I would be in the top gear for only a few minutes, and could probably coast in a more aero position to pick up some of the speed, but I am in the low gear for about an hour.

Any thoughts?
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Old 08-20-11, 03:57 PM
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Having experience with the SRAM Apex 11-32, I recommend this route. The spacing is not really much of an issue for the most part, however, the overall gear range is very good. I run it on an Ultgra 6700 50-34 (formally a 105 50-34), and I have had no cross-chaining issues. I like the 11 for flats and downhill, and I have actually used the 32 on a few occasions when I was pretty tired on some monster climbs.

So far, my Frankengroup (SRAM Apex 11-32 cassette, Shimano 105 long-cage rear derailleur, Ultegra 6700 crankset and bottom bracket, 105 front derailleur, and 105 shifters) has been ultra-smooth, and though 32 is not used everyday, it is there on the days I do not feel my best (and you too will have those days).

BTW, I did this setup, as there are hills all around me and having to climb one is unavoidable.
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Old 08-20-11, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Socalfriendly View Post
SRAM Apex 11-32 cassette, Shimano 105 long-cage rear derailleur
Does this combo just work straight out of the box? Any problems with the derailleur pulleys hitting the 32 tooth cog?
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Old 08-20-11, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by scirocco View Post
Does this combo just work straight out of the box? Any problems with the derailleur pulleys hitting the 32 tooth cog?
Seems to me that you'll need to lengthen your chain at least, but I can't speak from experience. You do need a long RD cage for the 32t cog.

I went from a SRAM 1070 12X25 to an 11X28 right out of the box with no problems on my Rival drivetrain.
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Old 08-20-11, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by davida View Post
My regular rides involve climbing. I'm not 27 any more and I need to look after my knees.

I currently have Ultegra 6700 compact with 11-28 on the back.

That is

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28

SRAM can do

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32

and

12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-32

The new Tiagra 10 4600 cassette with hyperglide is

12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30

I think I can do without the 11 if I get a closer gear spacing elsewhere

So the options are the 12-32 SRAM which is very well spaced except for the big jump to the 32 granny gear or the Tiagra which is almost the same spacing as I currently run, but without the 11 and with the 30.

If I go for the Tiagra apart from changing the chain length, will I need a new RD to handle the 30 tooth. If I keep my current RD and cross chain (50-30), (a) what happens - does it lock up or something and (b) could I just change the cassette and test ride being carefull not to cross chain just to see how it goes.

Also, what is the difference in performance between the Tiagra cassette and the Ultegra version?

PS The trade off of the 12 for the 30 is a no brainer. On my ride I would be in the top gear for only a few minutes, and could probably coast in a more aero position to pick up some of the speed, but I am in the low gear for about an hour.

Any thoughts?
I've used a 11-32 on an Ultegra GS long cage rear derailleur: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ill?highlight=. A 12-30 will work with all road derailleurs and frames without concern. You might be able to use your existing chain, just be sure the chain still has some slack when on the big-big combo.

I also like the spacing of the 12-30. The Apex 11-32 has a wider range, but you lose the 14T cog. The jumps in cadence can get noticed with the Apex 11-32, especially on flat routes with some wind to push against.

Last edited by Barrettscv; 08-20-11 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 08-20-11, 06:49 PM
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I use the SRAM 12-32. The actual spacing does not include the big jump to the 32 gear as listed on the SRAM website. The actual spacing is this:

12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28,32 as noted here: Link

I use it on one bike with a SRAM Rival Med Cage, and on another bike with a Shimano 105 Med Cage. Works great on both. I do miss the 11 sometimes on fast descents, but I prefer having the closer spacing with the 12.
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Old 08-20-11, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by davida View Post
If I go for the Tiagra apart from changing the chain length, will I need a new RD to handle the 30 tooth.
You don't mention the size of the RD, I assume it's a short cage? I just went from a Ultegra 12-25 to an Ultegra 13-30 and I had to go up from my short cage to be able to reach the 30.
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Old 08-20-11, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JAJ0404 View Post
You don't mention the size of the RD, I assume it's a short cage? I just went from a Ultegra 12-25 to an Ultegra 13-30 and I had to go up from my short cage to be able to reach the 30.
Ultegra 13-30? It doesn't exist. Harris builds and sells a nine speed 13-30, but Shimano doesn't.
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Old 08-20-11, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
Ultegra 13-30? It doesn't exist. Harris builds and sells a nine speed 13-30, but Shimano doesn't.
Did I mention the name Shimano? Harris Cyclery builds it out of ULTEGRA COGS, that makes it an Ultegra cassette in my book.
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Old 08-20-11, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JAJ0404 View Post
Did I mention the name Shimano? Harris Cyclery builds it out of ULTEGRA COGS, that makes it an Ultegra cassette in my book.
Well then you should know that "The "Century Special" is our most popular custom cassette. It works with all modern derailers, even short cage models." according to Harris.
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Old 08-20-11, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
Well then you should know that "The "Century Special" is our most popular custom cassette. It works with all modern derailers, even short cage models." according to Harris.
Are you trying to tell me you work for Harris and you didn't know they make it out of 100% Ultegra parts? Trust me, it doesn't work with a short DR.
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Old 08-20-11, 07:29 PM
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I see now you're quoting Harris, not saying you work there - - their site is wrong, it doesn't work with an Ultegfra short cage.
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Old 08-20-11, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JAJ0404 View Post
Are you trying to tell me you work for Harris and you didn't know they make it out of 100% Ultegra parts? Trust me, it doesn't work with a short DR.
...and its not 100% Ultegra. I'm just saying you failed to get it to work with a SS derailleur.
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Old 08-20-11, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
...and its not 100% Ultegra. I'm just saying you failed to get it to work with a SS derailleur.
OK, tell me what parts are not Ultegra. I couldn't get it to work, and 3 different mechanics at my shop couldn't get it to work. They even called Harris and got the answer 'well, uh, you know, .......'
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Old 08-20-11, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JAJ0404 View Post
OK, tell me what parts are not Ultegra. I couldn't get it to work, and 3 different mechanics at my shop couldn't get it to work. They even called Harris and got the answer 'well, uh, you know, .......'
Ultegra nine speed only go up to 27t.

I don't mean to be hard on you, but the SS can work. Nothing wrong with using a "GS" road model, sometimes called long cage;

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Old 08-20-11, 08:01 PM
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So then what's the 30t?
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Old 08-20-11, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JAJ0404 View Post
So then what's the 30t?
Being shipped. I'll replace the Apex 11-32 and use the 12-30 in the future.

I keep two bikes, one Sports/CX model with a 50, 39, & 26t triple and a race-level road-bike with a 50 & 39t standard double. I also keep two identical & interchangeable wheel sets and exchange between the two bikes. Soon, I'll have a 12-30t cassette on one rear wheel and an 11-23 on the other. This will provide 4 gearing combinations.

On both bikes, I use the 39t chain-ring and the 5 smallest cogs for 70% of my riding, I’m a spinner and will keep a 100 rpm cadence. The 50t chain-ring on both bikes is low enough for a few faster moments on flatter routes, but not often. The 11-23t cassette and the 39t chain-ring is all I need for flatter century rides close to home in northern Illinois.

The 12-30t cassette and 50 & 39t crank-set will be a great hilly century ride drivetrain on the road bike, and gives me the range of a compact with a 12-25t cassette. The 11-23t cassette and 50 & 39t crank-set is a great group ride drivetrain.

The 50, 39, & 26t Crank-set might use the 11-23t cassette on a few flat 200k rides that feature a few steep hills. The 50, 39, & 26t Crank-set will use the 12-30t cassette on solo & unsupported century rides that feature numerous steep hills. This bike needs to carry food & water for 5 hours and needs deeper gears than the road bike. I'll be able to climb a 20% hill while maintaining a smooth 70 rpm cadence. That's a leg saver on a long ride. On moderate climbs I'll stay with the 39t chainring and should have little strain on a 5% grade. The 39t chainring is king.
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Old 08-20-11, 08:17 PM
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I don't think you understood my question, you said they only make Ultegra up to 27t, I asked what the 30t in a Century Special would be then. But that doesn't really matter, is your 30t being used with a short cage? Because if you've actually seen this/done this, I'm going to complain to the manager of my LBS, since they obviously took me for a new DR that I didn't need (and put on quite a show besides). Don't want to do that on theory of course, but if you have it . . . . . .
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Old 08-20-11, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JAJ0404 View Post
I don't think you understood my question, you said they only make Ultegra up to 27t, I asked what the 30t in a Century Special would be then. But that doesn't really matter, is your 30t being used with a short cage? Because if you've actually seen this/done this, I'm going to complain to the manager of my LBS, since they obviously took me for a new DR that I didn't need (and put on quite a show besides). Don't want to do that on theory of course, but if you have it . . . . . .
Only the HG-61 has a 30t cog. Harris builds the 13-30 from a variety of Shimano parts, not all are Ultegra.

I really don't care about your problem with your LBS. You stated with complete certainty that an SS rear derailleur won't work. This is not the case, and forums readers shouldn't think that a GS derailleur is always needed.
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Old 08-20-11, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
I really don't care about your problem with your LBS. You stated with complete certainty that an SS rear derailleur won't work. This is not the case, and forums readers shouldn't think that a GS derailleur is always needed.
So have you actually seen it, or is this just theory, that's all I'm asking. Sorry I was such an a$$, I was watching my Indians get pounded while posting, shouldn't do that.
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Old 08-20-11, 11:23 PM
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From the website

Model Number RD-6700-SS
Series ULTEGRA
Cassette Compatibility 10-speed
Maximum Sprocket 28T Need 30
Minimum Sprocket 11T
Maximum Front Difference 16T
Total Capacity 33T Need 34 for 50/34 and 12/30
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Old 08-21-11, 08:57 AM
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You can switch to campagnolo and run a 12-29 11 speed and have much tighter gaps through the gear range. 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,26,29

Unless you are planning on doing races that have a downhill finish with a tail wind you don't need an 11. Juniors win sprints in big races with their biggest gear a 52x14.
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Old 08-21-11, 09:50 AM
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A 6700 SS will take a 32 tooth rear cog. I've done it for hill interval training (alternating low/high cadence on a 10 mile hill). The only problem it is that if there's enough chain for the big-big combo, you'll have too much for the small-small. In my case, I normally run a 12-27, so there was not enough chain to go big-big. I was careful to make sure that didn't happen.

In short, the SS will take the 12-30 just fine unless you have an abnormally short rear derailleur hangar.

Bob
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Old 08-21-11, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by scirocco View Post
Does this combo just work straight out of the box? Any problems with the derailleur pulleys hitting the 32 tooth cog?
A new, slightly longer chain also went on, as well as raising the front derailleur ever so slightly.
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