puffer33

I am a dad who has a son racing (new to the game, but very good I am told) who I need to buy a bike for. Cervelo is the big dealer in our area and I have decided to go with the brand for service.. I need some advice on whether i would be better off buying a new 2011 cervelo s5 with sram rival components for $3800 or a good used 2009 S3 with sram red for $3500.

Are the sram rival components a good buy? Any advice or opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Elvo

S5 might be too stiff, S3 with Force and a set of race wheels sounds like a better idea.

palesaint

Might be too stiff for an aged individual, but this kid sounds young enough to be able to handle a frame like this. If the dad has the coins, go for the S5!

I find sram to be a durable groupset, even the Red (their lightest). If the 2009 bike looks gently used, I'll bet it would be a good value. Really though, all Red mostly gets you in a half pound weight reduction. Some find the shifting to be a little crisper. I might offer $3500 for the Red bike and go with that if they take it.

Rival is a good groupset, that performs VERY well. If the 2011 has significant differences in the frame over the 2009 I would go that route. I'm not too well versed on Cervelo bikes though.

Jordi

New to the sport? How about a Cannondale CAAD 10 with Rival? An expensive carbon frame for a new racer is probably a bad idea.

Flashlight - why is the s5 too stiff?

oldbobcat

I second that idea. A top-notch alloy frame will take more of the kind of abuse a beginning racer will put it through, and it will be less expensive to replace should it get destroyed or outgrown. Alloy Cervelo S1s on clearance are also not difficult to find.

ilovecycling

SRAM Red is marginally better at double the cost. To be honest, the only area where Red offers a realistic improvement is with the right shift lever that controls the rear shifting. The lever doesn't have to move in quite as far before the shift takes place. Rival still moves in hardly at all though. Both offer a very crisp and short throw for the up shift. Since your son will be racing, he's likely to crash and break parts. Why replace expensive Red parts when you can get a full Rival group for $700 on eBay?

As far as the frame goes, I'd go with the newer technology myself. A 2012 S5 (the S5 is technically a 2012 model) has more of an aero advantage. The S3 looks cool, but in reality it probably has such a small advantage over a non aero road bike. I don't really believe aero frame designs make a real difference anyways, but if there is a bike that does it will be the S5. Also, Cervelo has a crash replacement program so if your son wrecks the frame in a crash you can get a replacement for a significant discount off the retail price. It might not make a difference if the 2009 S3 is new, but I'd certainly feel better if my sales receipt matched the year of the bicycle when it comes to warranty claims or crash replacement discounts.

Go with the S5. Your son will love it.

igknighted

Hmm... the S5 is marginally faster aerodynamically, but the S3 Red is lighter (possibly faster climbing). That said, I would probably try to get a new S2 with Rival (if they are still available at your LBS, should be about $2500 these days) and get either (a) nice race wheels, or (b) a power meter. Probably B is the better investment, but A is somewhat more fun. Oh, and if he's going to be racing at a high level, invest in a quality bike fit. Don't just get the free "fit" they give you with a new bike, spend the $200-$300 and get a full BG or Retul or comparable fit by a fitter that knows what they are doing. A great fit is worth more than any "upgrade" you can buy.

ilovecycling

This is probably better advice than the advice I gave.

Kind of Blued

Does your son have an opinion?

Inertianinja

CErvelo has a great warranty, but only for new bikes.

That said, I see plenty of racers around here on S2 and S3. All Cervelos bikes are race-worthy.

mantis

Definitely go with the S5, but pay attention to the frame level you buy, as Cervelo makes three different grades (Base, Team, and VWD) of the S5 frame. The frame which is standard with the Rival group is the base grade obviously, to achieve the $3800 retail price.

IMO, you would want at least the second level "Team" version if you could swing the cost, but it comes standard with Ultegra. My dealer told me many S5 buyers are getting the Team/Ultegra bike and then removing the Ultegra, then eBay/Craigslisting all of the components and then gearing up the bike with Rival or Red or whatever they want.

ericm979

If the kid's good, spend less money on the bike and more on coaching/race travel.

Urban Turkey

^ This. I would actually hate for someone else to make these decisions on my first really nice bike. It's so much about personal preference and comfort.

topflightpro

Sram Rival components are great. I had planned on putting Rival on my race rig until I got a great deal on Force, that actually cost less than Rival.

As for the frame question, you really can't go wrong with either. Both are professional level frames. Yes, there are some differences, but they are fairly marginal.

It's kind of like picking between a Ferrari 599 and 458. Both are beautiful cars that far exceed the needs of most drivers and few people can tell the difference beyond how they look.

ColinL

I second the aluminum idea for a variety of reasons... usually more durable for racing, and cheaper in case it is binned or outgrown. (I don't think the OP said how old the kid is, but I'm assuming anyone below 17 is probably still growing.) I would be looking hard at the CAAD10-4 / Rival.

I would get him a coach, a real training plan and on a team ASAP. That is more critical than any of the equipment.

roadwarrior

If, when some chucklehead gets on the brakes in front of him and a load of guys go down in a heap and the frame breaks, are you in a position to buy him a new one, plus the parts that will need to be replaced? If you can, great. If not, race what you can replace. At that level the bike will not hold him back and, in fact the nicer the rig he shows up with the more attention he draws and the harder it is to really perform in a race.

Frame breakage as a result of racing is not in the warranty.

Seattle Forrest

I asked my Cervelo dealer about this, because another shop has a used Soloist in 61 cm which fits me well, and they said they have 'em in 48 cm, but all other sizes have sold out.

Test riding them both on the same day, at as close to the same heart rate as I could get, I was able to sprint faster on an S2 than an R3. Aero frames make a difference. It was around 27 vs 28 mph on flat ground.

ilovecycling

Sorry, but unless you had a power meter to verify your efforts, your conclusion based on heart rate alone is meaningless. Like I said before though, if any bike is going to give you some aero advantage it's going to be the S5. The S2 with water bottles on it isn't going to make any realistic difference whatsoever.

rangerdavid

CAAD 9 or CAAD10 is a great racing bike, especially for a beginning racer who will likely crash a few times. I certainly can't argue with the Cervelo lovers either, they are just great bikes, but much more expensive than the CAAD's are, so when he crashes, breaks parts and needs to replace, the cost will be less.

ColinL

Agreed, but Cervelo (and the big 4) have crash programs don't they? You shouldn't be paying MSRP for a crashed frame. Then again, on a $3k frame, I bet you would pay well over $1,500. That 50% ratio sounds a lot better on a CAAD10 or Allez...

Seattle Forrest

Meaningless isn't the same thing as "not 100 % conclusive."

RecceDG

Not true at all. For a given individual at a given fitness level, heart rate tracks power output very well.

The tough part is equating a given heart rate to a given power output (eg, 155 BPM == 180 W) That is very difficult and there will always be some inaccuracy. CycleOps has a new budget power meter that works on heart rate that does a bunch of math gymnastics to make this work.

There are other variables in play that make the "speed at a given heart rate" less of a slam-dunk argument that there was a benefit from the aero frame, but the concept is reasonably valid.

DG

v70cat

1) Rival is a fine gear set. It just weighs a little more. In fact the FD of Red is a bad design and a lot of rider use rival FD with red.
2) The S5 is a new bike that is actually cheaper than a S3 for example you can buy a limited production S5 Team with full Red for $5,500.
3) The weight difference of the the S5 Base vs Team is not that big a deal.
4) Unless the S3 comes with carbon wheels the price seems high. Also I bet the guy is selling it to buy a S5.
5) You can get a set of nice wheels via the internet for 50% of retail and would be the way to buy them. Your son does not need Zips that cost $2,000 each and the Cervelo team ran Mavics wheels that you can by for $1,000+/- via the internet on Bonktown or other sites.

I wold suggest a new S5 it is more areo than almost any other bike and has better pricing than a S3. The concept of a Cad 10 105 or Rival for $1,500+/- is a much cheaper way to go. I would wait on fancy wheels.

puffer33

Thanks for all the replies, they have been very informative and helpful. Don't worry guys, my son will have the final decision. Dad is just trying to get an education before he shells out the dough. Thanks again

Cheers all