Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

For all you Powermeter users - are you riding solo a lot?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

For all you Powermeter users - are you riding solo a lot?

Old 10-03-11, 08:33 AM
  #1  
hhnngg1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
For all you Powermeter users - are you riding solo a lot?

For all you PowerMeter users who are actually using it to train by targeting specific power targets: ( and not just as a high-priced monitoring tool)

Do you find you're training a lot more on your own to hit those power targets?

I don't have one myself, and have been happily using a trainer as a poor man's PM by using the Cycleops Fluid2 power curve (obviously can't take that outside so it's only to compare trainer vs trainer efforts from day to day) but have been using HR for longer rides outdoors, and would definitely find it hard to stay in targeted ranges if on group rides due them being either too fast or too slow at parts of the ride.
hhnngg1 is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 08:45 AM
  #2  
Creatre
These Guys Eat Oreos
 
Creatre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Superior, CO
Posts: 3,432

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I already prefer to train solo, so getting a powermeter didn't really change anything in my case. One of the main reasons to get a powermeter is so that instead of just going outside and riding, you are training your body in certain zones for certain reasons, during certain carefully thought out times of the year. Sometimes it is nice to go out with a group though, and then you have your power data to look at afterwards to see how you responded to certain ranges. The biggest thing to me is being able to see my TSS per ride, and the ATL and CTL to see if my body is being stressed enough, or too much from my training. In the end though, it's up to the user whether or not they want to take advantage of having a power meter as a training tool for solo riding or not.
Creatre is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 08:58 AM
  #3  
svtmike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,745

Bikes: S-Works Roubaix SL2^H4, Secteur Sport, TriCross, Kaffenback, Lurcher 29er

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Specific interval workouts are best done solo, unless you have group agreement on intensity/duration/etc. and are well-matched.

I'll use my PM and knowledge of my power zones during group rides for other things: to help keep a constant effort when pulling that everyone in the group can maintain, to figure out if I'm going too hard up a hill to be in play for the hilltop sprint, to figure out if I should reverse drop the group, to stay in a range for a recovery paced ride, etc. etc.
svtmike is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 09:04 AM
  #4  
hhnngg1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by svtmike View Post
Specific interval workouts are best done solo, unless you have group agreement on intensity/duration/etc. and are well-matched.

I'll use my PM and knowledge of my power zones during group rides for other things: to help keep a constant effort when pulling that everyone in the group can maintain, to figure out if I'm going too hard up a hill to be in play for the hilltop sprint, to figure out if I should reverse drop the group, to stay in a range for a recovery paced ride, etc. etc.
I agree that the PM can be helpful for monitoring purposes, but I'm actually more interested in those using it to target specific numbers in training while still doing enough riding to race in crits or other draft-legal situations where pack riding skills are important.

I have a hard time reconciling hitting specific power targets with being at the mercy of the speed of the group you're riding with. Seems mutually exclusive in the vast majority of situations.
hhnngg1 is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 09:06 AM
  #5  
svtmike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,745

Bikes: S-Works Roubaix SL2^H4, Secteur Sport, TriCross, Kaffenback, Lurcher 29er

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hhnngg1 View Post
I agree that the PM can be helpful for monitoring purposes, but I'm actually more interested in those using it to target specific numbers in training while still doing enough riding to race in crits or other draft-legal situations where pack riding skills are important.

I have a hard time reconciling hitting specific power targets with being at the mercy of the speed of the group you're riding with. Seems mutually exclusive in the vast majority of situations.
I agree that monitoring and targeting applications are pretty mutually exclusive. They are both applications of a power meter.

Understanding your power outputs in a crit will help you to craft more meaningful targets (what does it take to hang? to win? 10s sprints every 20s? or something else?) and interval workouts, and will help you understand your true pain and power thresholds better than just doing intervals on the trainer.
svtmike is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 09:42 AM
  #6  
hhnngg1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by svtmike View Post
I agree that monitoring and targeting applications are pretty mutually exclusive. They are both applications of a power meter.

Understanding your power outputs in a crit will help you to craft more meaningful targets (what does it take to hang? to win? 10s sprints every 20s? or something else?) and interval workouts, and will help you understand your true pain and power thresholds better than just doing intervals on the trainer.
I can understand how it could be helpful to see numbers like "I got dropped after the group pulled away at 380 watts" in a race, but I still think that it's far more useful and reliable to use numbers from actual controlled field tests that are not dependent on the presence of others, and repeatable, to determine workout zones. A TT would be a good race where you could use the numbers for zone-training, though, since there's no drafting to confound the numbers.
hhnngg1 is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 09:44 AM
  #7  
calamarichris
Horse Categorie
 
calamarichris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 6,197

Bikes: '09 Felt F55, '84 Masi Cran Criterium, (2)'86 Schwinn Pelotons, '86 Look Equippe Hinault, '09 Globe Live 3 (dogtaxi), '94 Greg Lemond, '99 GT Pulse Kinesis

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times in 35 Posts
Riding alone, yes.
The bicycle is made for pain, not for socializing.
calamarichris is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 09:48 AM
  #8  
HMF
SkinnyStrong
 
HMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Austin, Tejas
Posts: 1,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
If I'm riding solo and doing intervals I have it there so I can pace my efforts. If I'm riding with a group I have it there so I can look at it after, not during. Having it doesn't influence who I ride with, but rather how I ride with it.
HMF is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 09:52 AM
  #9  
Gluteus
Maximus
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by svtmike View Post
Specific interval workouts are best done solo, unless you have group agreement on intensity/duration/etc. and are well-matched.

I'll use my PM and knowledge of my power zones during group rides for other things: to help keep a constant effort when pulling that everyone in the group can maintain, to figure out if I'm going too hard up a hill to be in play for the hilltop sprint, to figure out if I should reverse drop the group, to stay in a range for a recovery paced ride, etc. etc.
+1
Gluteus is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 09:55 AM
  #10  
hhnngg1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by HMF View Post
If I'm riding solo and doing intervals I have it there so I can pace my efforts. If I'm riding with a group I have it there so I can look at it after, not during. Having it doesn't influence who I ride with, but rather how I ride with it.
Are you using it as part of a regimented training program with power-based rampups over weeks/months? Or are you just riding?
hhnngg1 is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 10:11 AM
  #11  
valygrl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 8,546
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I am very lucky that my training partner and I are really similar, so we sometimes are able to do our interval workouts together with our power meters. She weighs about 3 pounds more than me and her threshold is 20 watts higher. She's a bit faster at threshold. Sometimes we can ride side by side, other times I have to stay in her draft to meet my number, or I fall off the pace, and we regroup on the rest intervals. Mostly what happens is she's riding 90% and I'm riding 95% of LT, and then when we do over-unders I get dropped.

I think this is an anomaly, though. I don't think I could do this with anyone else (except maybe my twin sister). I have to ride my tests alone, though, or I end up blowing up and failing the testing protocol.

There's no way I could do my training program on a regular group ride with out being OTB or OTF for parts of the ride. It can work if ONE person is doing their workout and the other people on the ride take their pace from that person. I've done that before, with another friend, when she's doing at tempo workout, i just ride her wheel.
valygrl is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 10:17 AM
  #12  
kimconyc
Señor Member
 
kimconyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 3,744

Bikes: 2018 Lynskey R380 Ti | 2011 Hampsten Travelissimo Gran Paradiso Ti | 2001 De Rosa Neo Primato - Batik Del Monte, Genius | 1991 Eddy Merckx - Motorola, TSX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by hhnngg1 View Post
For all you PowerMeter users who are actually using it to train by targeting specific power targets: ( and not just as a high-priced monitoring tool)

Do you find you're training a lot more on your own to hit those power targets?

I don't have one myself, and have been happily using a trainer as a poor man's PM by using the Cycleops Fluid2 power curve (obviously can't take that outside so it's only to compare trainer vs trainer efforts from day to day) but have been using HR for longer rides outdoors, and would definitely find it hard to stay in targeted ranges if on group rides due them being either too fast or too slow at parts of the ride.
Yes. I also find I don't go on the normal routes on the open road for kicks as much now but more structured workouts in isolated areas (park, airstrip, trainer).
kimconyc is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 10:30 AM
  #13  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,174
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1162 Post(s)
Liked 267 Times in 162 Posts
Whether or not you have a powermeter, training is more controlled and effective when done solo. Group rides are great for adding intensity in a fartlek type workout but probably best limited to once or twice a week.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 10:34 AM
  #14  
hhnngg1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Whether or not you have a powermeter, training is more controlled and effective when done solo. Group rides are great for adding intensity in a fartlek type workout but probably best limited to once or twice a week.
A lot of racing road cyclists, including Powermeter using ones would disagree with this. I rarely do crits due to crash risk and prefer TTs, so this philosophy definitely works for me, but ask most racing roadies, and they'll swear by group riding - even though I can't see how they can hit optimal training zones while doing mostly group rides. (I obviously understand the importance of tactics/group riding that are essential for success for roadies, which they must practice.)
hhnngg1 is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 11:36 AM
  #15  
ilvwhtgrls
Senior Member
 
ilvwhtgrls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Huntington Beach,CA
Posts: 545
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
Riding alone, yes.
The bicycle is made for pain, not for socializing.
did you ride north thru Camp Pendleton yesterday? I'm pretty sure I saw you but I can't remember exactly where. We road from Huntington to Solana Beach.
ilvwhtgrls is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 11:39 AM
  #16  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,174
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1162 Post(s)
Liked 267 Times in 162 Posts
Originally Posted by hhnngg1 View Post
A lot of racing road cyclists, including Powermeter using ones would disagree with this. I rarely do crits due to crash risk and prefer TTs, so this philosophy definitely works for me, but ask most racing roadies, and they'll swear by group riding - even though I can't see how they can hit optimal training zones while doing mostly group rides. (I obviously understand the importance of tactics/group riding that are essential for success for roadies, which they must practice.)
I very much doubt you will find many successful racers doing more than 1 or 2 group rides a week. Group rides are fun but not the same as focussed intervals.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 11:46 AM
  #17  
hyhuu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NoVA
Posts: 1,421

Bikes: Specialized Allez Sport

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by hhnngg1 View Post
A lot of racing road cyclists, including Powermeter using ones would disagree with this. I rarely do crits due to crash risk and prefer TTs, so this philosophy definitely works for me, but ask most racing roadies, and they'll swear by group riding - even though I can't see how they can hit optimal training zones while doing mostly group rides. (I obviously understand the importance of tactics/group riding that are essential for success for roadies, which they must practice.)
In one of the training books I read, the author(s) said that the pro-cyclists spend most of their time training solo because everyone has different strenghth and weakness to work on.
hyhuu is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 02:14 PM
  #18  
jmX
Senior Member
 
jmX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,201

Bikes: Roubaix / Shiv

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
When I'm on a training schedule with very specific workouts planned, it is 100% solo. Often i do them on a trainer just so I don't have to worry about the environment and can simply concentrate on the work to do.

The weekend rides in most training plans I've seen allow for 1 or 2 group rides. The weekdays are for the highly structured work.
jmX is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 02:22 PM
  #19  
AdelaaR
Senior Member
 
AdelaaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vlaamse Ardennen, Belgium
Posts: 3,898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
Riding alone, yes.
The bicycle is made for pain, not for socializing.
This.
AdelaaR is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 02:41 PM
  #20  
petalpower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 492

Bikes: 2014 Specialized Roubaix Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes. This was my first season training and using a powermeter for that matter, and 99% of my rides were solo training rides. I think I hit 2-3 Tues/Thurs night Worlds group rides.
petalpower is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 03:03 PM
  #21  
calamarichris
Horse Categorie
 
calamarichris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 6,197

Bikes: '09 Felt F55, '84 Masi Cran Criterium, (2)'86 Schwinn Pelotons, '86 Look Equippe Hinault, '09 Globe Live 3 (dogtaxi), '94 Greg Lemond, '99 GT Pulse Kinesis

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by ilvwhtgrls View Post
did you ride north thru Camp Pendleton yesterday? I'm pretty sure I saw you but I can't remember exactly where. We road from Huntington to Solana Beach.
I wish. That is indeed one of my staple routes, but I was stinking up the Tour de Poway yesterday with my disgraceful lack of fitness and choppy, Parkinson's-afflicted triathlete pedaling form.
calamarichris is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 03:30 PM
  #22  
ilvwhtgrls
Senior Member
 
ilvwhtgrls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Huntington Beach,CA
Posts: 545
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Lol, I'm sure you did great. I remember reading your sub 5 hour century up to HB and back... Pretty damn strong in my book.
ilvwhtgrls is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 03:36 PM
  #23  
phee
Senior Member
 
phee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 314

Bikes: BMC RM01

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by svtmike View Post
to figure out if I should reverse drop the group
Sorry, but what does this mean?
phee is offline  
Old 10-03-11, 03:57 PM
  #24  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,201

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2674 Post(s)
Liked 2,275 Times in 1,070 Posts
I do solo structured training rides. I also do group rides because I enjoy yelling at the guys who can't handle their bikes worth a damn because all they do is solo structured training rides.
caloso is online now  
Old 10-03-11, 04:29 PM
  #25  
svtmike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,745

Bikes: S-Works Roubaix SL2^H4, Secteur Sport, TriCross, Kaffenback, Lurcher 29er

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by phee View Post
Sorry, but what does this mean?
Reverse drop = let them ride away. Tongue in cheek way of saying "be dropped".
svtmike is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.