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Difference between these two flat bar shifters?

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Difference between these two flat bar shifters?

Old 10-08-11, 03:39 AM
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beetrootman
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Difference between these two flat bar shifters?

Hi,

Can anybody tell me the precise difference between these:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/...t-bar-shifters

and these

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/...r-road-shifter

I can not find any technical information on the net. I have a 105 double front derailleur. I need to shifters to work with that. I am sceptical about the statement that the R770 shifters "must only be used with Ultegra FD-6700 double only front derailleurs" because I know 105 and Ultegra front dr and shifters are interchangeable.

Thanks
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Old 10-08-11, 04:39 AM
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I have no knowledge of the R770 specifically but I am familiar with the 440, which is a step down in the series. The R440 (or 4403) fd has a mountain bike cable pull, and a road bike curvature. So a 440 front shifter has a mountain cable pull, and I would assume the 770 does as well, meaning it would not be happy with an Ultegra 6700 FD, or a 105 FD (old or new).

All the statements I had ever seen about the 440, 550, and 770 said they had to be used with a like numbered FD. I actually use a SRAM X7 with my 440 FD and it works beautifully.
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Old 10-08-11, 11:06 AM
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Hmmm the FD-6700 is just a normal Ultegra double front derailleur. So I would presume a normal 105 double can also be used.
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Old 10-08-11, 04:18 PM
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Every place I google an r770 shifter it says in big letters "ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH R770 or R773 FRONT DERAILLEUR". I think the note saying it works with FD-6700 is wrong
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Old 10-08-11, 07:47 PM
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When in doubt, consult Shimano: http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...ty%20Chart.pdf

They might exclude some items that will work (such as "9 speed RD" not working with 10 speed shifters) but if you follow their recommendations you won't have a compatibility issue. In your case, you'll need to swap out the front derailler too if you want to use flat bar shifters. As noted above, the flat bar shifters use the same cable pull at MTB shifters which is different enough from the road cable pull that you can't get away with mixing and matching.

The reason Shimano specifies matching numbered shifters and front deraillers is that they do vary the front derailler cage width for use with the corresponding chain widths. You can run a 9 speed FD with a 10 speed chain but your shifts won't be as precise and fast. You can use a 10 speed FD with a 9 speed chain but you'll get a lot more chain rub than you'll likely want to live with.
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Old 10-08-11, 09:56 PM
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1. I don't understand why the second link shows a 6700 series flat bar shifter when Shimano does not not offer such a thing, though the R770 is sometimes marketed as Ultegra-level.

2. The new 10-sp Tiagra group DOES offer a flat bar shifter (SL4600, SL4603) that is less money and is spec'd for compatibility with all Shimano 10-sp FDs. I suspect this will be the preferred shifter for flat bar conversions.

3. I've noticed that some mfrs have recently begun installing road FDs on their higher-end hybrids with R770 shifters, where previously they used R770/R773 FDs. While I sometimes read statements that these are mountain-pull shifters, all of these statements appear to be little more than assumption.
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Old 10-08-11, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdork View Post
2. The new 10-sp Tiagra group DOES offer a flat bar shifter (SL4600, SL4603) that is less money and is spec'd for compatibility with all Shimano 10-sp FDs. I suspect this will be the preferred shifter for flat bar conversions.
Where did you read this? It's quite interesting if true.

Originally Posted by desertdork View Post
3. I've noticed that some mfrs have recently begun installing road FDs on their higher-end hybrids with R770 shifters, where previously they used R770/R773 FDs. While I sometimes read statements that these are mountain-pull shifters, all of these statements appear to be little more than assumption.
Links? I could imagine that for a double set up you might get away with it. Triples would be a different story. Yes, this is speculation but it's based off other's experiences as described in the mechanics forum.
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Old 10-09-11, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdork View Post
1. I don't understand why the second link shows a 6700 series flat bar shifter when Shimano does not not offer such a thing, though the R770 is sometimes marketed as Ultegra-level.

2. The new 10-sp Tiagra group DOES offer a flat bar shifter (SL4600, SL4603) that is less money and is spec'd for compatibility with all Shimano 10-sp FDs. I suspect this will be the preferred shifter for flat bar conversions.

3. I've noticed that some mfrs have recently begun installing road FDs on their higher-end hybrids with R770 shifters, where previously they used R770/R773 FDs. While I sometimes read statements that these are mountain-pull shifters, all of these statements appear to be little more than assumption.
Apparently, they are offering a 6700 flat bar shifter at several on-line sellers in the UK(testing?).





Shimano Ultegra 6700 10 Speed Flat Bar Road Shifter
  • Ultegra STi 10spd Double Ergonomic design
  • Refined lever hood for improved ergonomics
  • Robust internal mechanism
  • Same lever response as ST-7800
  • Ergonomic shift stroke movement
  • Effortless accurate shifting
For the 770 flat bar shifters I found this at Chain Reacyion Cycles,

The R770 Rapidfire Shifters are precise mountain bike style levers for road bikes fitted with flat handlebars and 10-speed drivetrains.

• Double and triple chainset compatible
• Must only be used with FDR770 or FDR773 front derailleur’s and 10-speed rear derailleur
• High tech polished and grey finish
• Comes complete with SP41 gear cables

And, for the Tiagra(4603) I found this;

• The R780 Rapidfire Shifters are precise mountain bike style levers for road bikes fitted with flat handlebars and 10-speed drivetrains
• Must only be used with FD-4600, FD-5700 and FD-6700 double front derailleurs
• Instant Release for super fast shifts, delivering the chain to the next gear the moment the lever is actuated with no hesitation
• Multi Release allows multiple gear changes from both levers with one sweep, further adding to the speed of shift
• 2-Way release allows the upper shift lever to performs the same Multi Shift function but swings in either direction allowing it to be released by the thumb or index finger
• High tech polished and grey finish
• Low-friction design means that shifters have a light and responsive short-stroke action that reduces shifting effort
• Easy to read optical gear display
• Barrel adjuster for fine gear tuning
• Complete with inner and SP41 outer cables

I'd be willing to bet the 6700 shifters would only work best with Ultegra, not 105, but maybe it will. The Tiagra should work for both.

Did some more looking around. I think that maybe Shimano is changing the name in the UK from SL-R770-D-L 10 spd shifters to Ultegra 6700 10 spd shifters.
On Shimano's site there are SL-R770 shifters & SL- R770-D-L shifters.
The Tech Doc for SL-R770-D-L (Ultegra 6700?), says it only works with 6700 FD.
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830671845.pdf

Last edited by catmandew52; 10-09-11 at 10:44 PM. Reason: Added Tech doc link
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Old 10-10-11, 09:05 AM
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I have the SL-R770 shifters and run a triple. I always considered them to be road shifters because they have the trim feature for the front dr. (is this a safe assumption??)

Here is my bike setup (stock):

SL-R770 (10 speed shifters)
R773 Front dr - paired with a FSA Gossamer triple crank (52/39/30)
Ultegra Rear dr - long cage to accomodate the triple - with 105, 10 speed cassette (12-25).

Runs smooth and silent. Bike is a 2010 Kona Ph.D

Here are the tech docs for these shifters:
http://www.shimano.com.au/media/tech...9830683913.pdf
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Old 10-10-11, 10:13 AM
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my bike has 770 shifters and a FD-R770 front derailleur. 50/34 crankset
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Old 10-11-11, 10:19 AM
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I recently posted about a flat bar conversion in the mechanic section. I've got a cross bike with 9 sp cassette, 105 RD, and Tiagra front. I may just swap out the 9 sp cassette for a 10 and try these keeping my FD Tiagra. If it will work with a 105 FD then it should with Tiagra?
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Old 10-11-11, 12:19 PM
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Not that it helps the OP, but ... this (thread) exemplifies why I went with SRAM when rebuilding my Spec Sirrus; Shimano seems a dog's breakfast re. compatibility issues when it comes to flat-bar stuff. I simply did a pick 'n mix from SRAM (Apex f/d, r/d, crank/bb; Rival chain/cassette; Double-Tap 10spd) ... has worked perfectly from the get go (and lighter than 105).
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Old 10-11-11, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
Not that it helps the OP, but ... this (thread) exemplifies why I went with SRAM when rebuilding my Spec Sirrus; Shimano seems a dog's breakfast re. compatibility issues when it comes to flat-bar stuff. I simply did a pick 'n mix from SRAM (Apex f/d, r/d, crank/bb; Rival chain/cassette; Double-Tap 10spd) ... has worked perfectly from the get go (and lighter than 105).
Not for nothing, but if you had used an X9 or similar FD, you would have the same issues. SRAM double tap flat bar shifters were set up for all road cable pulls, so they work with all of the road series. An X9 MTB shifter set, also flat bar, would be lovely with the Apex RD, but not the Apex front. I use SRAM X9 stuff on my flat bar road bike, but had to use a Shimano 440 FD to get road curvature and MTB pull. And I found this solution right here on BF (insert shameless plug here)
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Old 10-11-11, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
Not for nothing, but if you had used an X9 or similar FD, you would have the same issues. SRAM double tap flat bar shifters were set up for all road cable pulls, so they work with all of the road series. An X9 MTB shifter set, also flat bar, would be lovely with the Apex RD, but not the Apex front. I use SRAM X9 stuff on my flat bar road bike, but had to use a Shimano 440 FD to get road curvature and MTB pull. And I found this solution right here on BF (insert shameless plug here)
Agree completely ... that's why I stuck with a 'road' group (wanted that anyway, and Apex makes 'easy' gears easy for an old crock like me!).
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Old 10-11-11, 04:47 PM
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I eyeballed the double tap flat shifters, and it is good to hear someone confirm that they are full road group compatible, which I had gleaned from their literature but wondered about. I would have a hard time ditching my current front set up though, because the 440 and X9 with a road standard crank has absolutely been the best working combination I have had.
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Old 10-11-11, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
I eyeballed the double tap flat shifters, and it is good to hear someone confirm that they are full road group compatible, which I had gleaned from their literature but wondered about. I would have a hard time ditching my current front set up though, because the 440 and X9 with a road standard crank has absolutely been the best working combination I have had.
Yep; the Double Tap ones I have are the original ... sort of Rival/Force level, and specifically designed to work with SRAM's road f/ds (as well as r/ds of course). They (the shifters) are terrific, btw ... very precise/light action, and the single-lever thingy takes just a few minutes to become intuitive; the carbon clamps are functionless, but nice in a blingy sort of way. I also like the full adjustability of the angle of the lever etc.
On a related point, I've heard (of course) of people (A. Schleck most notoriously!) having trouble with SRAM's front shifting in the road groups; fwiw I've had absolutely no front shift issues ... nada. Front shifts, like the rear, are crisp/accurate/fast every time. A bit slam/bangy, but then I kind of like that about SRAM (which I've also used for years on my mtb).
OTOH, if your set up is working well, then that's that ... no need to change I should think.
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Old 10-12-11, 01:15 PM
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I won't change my MTB setup at this point, and I currently have about 4200 miles on the shifters and most of the drive train. I figure when I hit 6000 I can convince myself that they need to be replaced / upgraded (which of course they won't "need" it but hey..), and my plan is probably the doubletap SRAM set up, with a Shimano cassette, which I hear is the smoothest set up.

I just picked up a road bike last week with full 105 group, and where it is nice, it does not yet feel as crisp as my hodgepodge. Time will tell, it may be totally operator dependent.
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Old 01-17-13, 06:27 AM
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Time to confuse things a little. Can you use the new SRAM 10 sp grip shifters with road derailleurs? They are designed for a 2 X 10.
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