himespau 

So where are the discs on road bikes (I know, I know they add weight, plus you need a bigger stronger heavier fork)? But it seems like this is something that should have happened by now.

Seattle Forrest

Aluminum rims cost $100. Carbon rims cost $900.

Given the price difference, I expected that you could replace just the braking surface, somehow (other than Calfee) and not have to replace the entire rim, like the part that isn't exposed to heat and friction.

Psimet2001 

In process. SRAM has an integrated hydraulic brake road lever in development. Wide spread rumor commonly repeated in the SRAM booth during Interbike.

This is because of their focus on cross racing. Disc is the perfect addition to cross. The technology there will trickle to road.

TRP's Parabox setup was fairly slick and fairly lightweight as well.

Psimet2001 

...and shoes cost $30. Food is $75.

Gross generalizations are usually incorrect.I personally have never built with a carbon rim that costs $900.



It's all relative. There are many in this sport who would consider the "$100" aluminum rim from your example to have been extremely high priced. They might think that, "given the price" that they could "expect that you could just replace the braking surface". Also - aluminum rims don't cost $100....not even at full retail.

I'll go back to my normal advice....if you can' afford to replace it then don't ride or race it. Shiz happens when you ride a bike. If the thought of wearing out something by riding on it is shocking to you because of the cost involved then ride something cheaper.

Seattle Forrest

That's not what I said, and it's a very poor summary. Obviously I understand that the braking surface wears out. This is smallish portion of the entire rim. You worked pretty hard to find such an un-charitable way to twist my question around. I'm sure it's fun. I was going to ask you for a quote before buying a wheel set, but I've changed my mind.

abstractform20

your braking surface is a small area of the rim???

is it just on one side?

Ramjm_2000

Assuming you don't completely destroy the rim, the braking layer can be repaired:

https://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...nd-more_191490

Seattle Forrest

The carbon wheels I tried had a 60 mm front rim and a 66 mm rear. The part of that that gets used for braking is drastically smaller. I'm a little surprised that it isn't two pieces, with the part that gets worn down by braking being replaceable.

But I'm also glad to know that it can be repaired. Hell, I might see if LBS will sell me that toasted rim, and have it fixed.

Nils

Read this: https://www.novemberbicycles.com/blog...r-blowups.html

JoelS

Yes, the brake track will wear out. I've worn out a couple of rims over the years. Same holds for CF rims, but they can be resurfaced (see post #32 above).

kf9yr

How much riding do you do?

I use my carbon rims every day and have 1560 miles on them since August when I bought them.

I use the cork pads that came with the wheels. Looking at the brake tracks on the rims I can see no difference between the part the pads touch and the remainder of the braking surface.

So the rims will last 1560+ miles. I haven't tested crash or offroad excursion durability and I hope not too...

My rims are made in Wis at Trek. My lbs mechanic was there for their 2012 rollout w/team Leopard etc. He said it was very interesting how they made the wheels. It didn't sound like the rims were modular so the brake tracks could be replaced.

If you are worried about longevity you could ride your wheels for a season, sell them, then buy a new set every year. This way you are only out the difference every year and can ride the newest model...

Psimet2001 

Maybe I need to preface my delivery anymore with "I'm working 80 hrs a week during the week and spending all weekend at races and promoting and building more....sometimes it comes across differently in type."

I was referring to this:

Somehow to me I read this as, "I think carbon rims cost a lot so I think there should be some way to fix them because it just seems extreme to have to just replace them when they wear out."

What I was trying to explain is that there are many people in this sport that would still consider the cost of an aluminum rim to be high enough to feel the same way about it - that there should be a way to somehow resurface it rather than just replace it.

In general, and it's because I see this a lot, I am usually still surprised at how some people interact with carbon components. I understand that because of the relative cost difference that you pointed out coupled with the fact that carbon has a brittle failure mode when it does fail that makes people approach the material a little differently.

That said, I am continually amazed at the durability and strength of the material in reality. There's a reason we use it in these applications - it simply out performs other materials like aluminum and steel with respect to a lot of the strength to weight ratios we demand. For the purposes of braking surface durability - the rims have progressed to the point where they tend to last as long as many people's aluminum rims do in similar applications.

EDIT: As for the "was going to submit a quote but now I won't" bit - thanks for the update. My posting activity here has been driven down greatly due to the fact that some here think I am advertising every time I try to answer questions with actual advice based on direct experience. In general I can say this with respect to my business and my posting here on BF - I have built up my business over time through some simple techniques:
1. I don't BS people. I don't play into people's perceptions or marketing. You ask me a question and I give you my answer. Those who have ever approached me to get a weight weenie wheelset can verify this.
2. I know what I am doing and my experience and product performance and reputation back that up on a daily basis.
3. Kind of like point #1 - I don't treat customers with disrespect but the customer isn't always right. I try to lay all the facts as I have experienced them out and then let the customer make the decision.

I'm not an idiot - I hate to hear about "losing" business, but in general I don't make any apologies for engaging in discussions like these and for pointing out facts as I see them. I have had enough feedback over the years to understand that there is a large majority of people who appreciate how I can cut through the extraneous pondering in threads like these and just get to the facts.

Butcher

Sounds like your loss.

sbxx1985 

That was a silly comment by Seattle.

More importantly, I heard Enve is releasing a 6.7 clincher next year. True?

I <3 Robots

The other thing you have to consider when racing cross is that there is sand, mud, dirt...and act like sandpaper when you brake.

I use my carbon rims as my "daily" wheels. I would imagine that they will last me quite a long time. Make it a habit of cleaning the pads maybe once a week or every X amount of miles you ride.

My backup pair of wheels are also carbon...which cost me nowhere near 900.

ticktockpedal

i can segue for a moment until someone who actually knows what they're talking about chimes in, but moving a bike from rim brakes to disc brakes adds something like at least 3 pounds to a bike due to the additional support needed on the frame (though with carbon frames, this might be less), and then there is the weight of the actual brake on top of this. personally i do not like the ride of disc brakes at all on road conditions, unless it's wet, then the difference in stopping power is significant and welcome. but squeezing a little can lock the disc and jar the bike, if not send you over the handlebars, especially with bumpy terrain. my two cents. rim brakes are much smoother and safer, at least those available now.

cranky old road 

I got a 404 message on the link to Ruckus from the Velonews link posted earlier in this thread. Scroll down to the post on 1/21/11 for some information. They have my wheelset as we speak. Their recoating material is still being refined. I have "before" photos of the rims and will take "after" and post them to the thread I started a while ago, along with a report on the "retread" mileage when appropriate. $100 a wheel plus shipping.

brian416

My carbon clinchers have just over 10,000 miles on them and the braking surface isn't even remotely close to work out, I suspect they'll go to 30,000 miles without a problem. My tubulars have 4000 miles on them and theres virtually no wear on them.

StanSeven

30,000 miles is a lot for me. I ride three different bikes and put maybe 5,000 a year on my favorite. That's six years. By that time I would want something newer and better anyway.

gregf83 

If you're using them for racing there shouldn't be a lot of brake wear going on

milnerpt

IMHO CX is a different beast. That not only means mud and grit, but sand, lots of braking, lots of crap in the pads. 2 guys on my team wore through their rims this year, having ridden them last year as well. Zipp 303s and a pair of neuvations. but we have a lot of sand/beach riding on our circuits.

just because a rim lasts 1-2 seasons on CX, doesnt mean just road riding (even training) would wear them out in 4-5

KendallF

I have a lot of mileage on carbon rims, and I'll give you some data points. First, I had a set of carbon tubulars (the Bikes Direct ones from a group buy here about 5 years ago). Probably 10,000 miles, mild brake track wear visible on the front rim, very little on rear. I experimented with various brake pads, some of them ill advised, and I think almost all of the wear came from using some non-carbon pads that I was told would work well (they didn't). I sold them to a local friend who's still riding them as race wheels.

My current set of Psimet carbon clinchers have at least 10k miles on them, still look virtually brand new on the brake track. I've used them in all sorts of weather (hit 53 mph on the back side of Hogpen a couple of months ago with them, in the rain). I have used only Swisstop yellow pads on them since they were new.

So..good pads, reasonable care, they should be good for a long time.

brian416

Actually, I get the most brake pad wear during racing. In races, the pack is constantly slowing down and accelerating, or braking in crits.

adriano 

discs will make some progress with the road market in the near future. i got impatient so i took matters into my own hands.