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-   -   2012 Di2 to be 11 speed? (https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/776472-2012-di2-11-speed.html)

gadabout007 10-19-11 05:35 PM

2012 Di2 to be 11 speed?
 
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...for-2013-32091

Sounds like it will not be backwards compatible with 1st gen Di2

datlas 10-19-11 05:41 PM

2013 not 2012, I believe.

eric01 10-19-11 07:27 PM

Depends on what kind of changes they make. Could be theoretically done with a firmware upgrade. Of course if its 11 speed, you'd need a new cassette at the minimum. But really too early to speculate.

Falchoon 10-19-11 08:09 PM

Paging Pcad....

:lol:

Mithrandir 10-19-11 08:16 PM


Originally Posted by gadabout007 (Post 13388017)
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...for-2013-32091

Sounds like it will not be backwards compatible with 1st gen Di2

I have absolutely no doubt that someone will figure out how to hack it to use 11 speeds. That's the beauty of a digital system, after all. Just program the derailleur stops at different locations and add one.

thirdgenbird 10-19-11 08:19 PM

using campagnolo's freehub body and and cog spacing would be in everyone's best interest

DinoShepherd 10-19-11 08:38 PM

way more jacked about the light discs brakes...

ilovecycling 10-19-11 08:43 PM

I don't see them using a proprietary hub design. That would be a huge drawback for a lot of people that might otherwise be willing to buy it.

I also wonder why they can't make a Shimano 8/9/10 speed hub work. They use a spacer as it is to work with 10-speed cassettes since the 10-speed cassette is narrower than the 8 and 9 speed cassettes. Why couldn't they use the full width of a 8/9/10 speed hub and bring the cogs a little closer together while using a narrower chain just like Campy? I'm not a wheel builder and haven't studied the different hub designs very much, so maybe I'm missing something here.

patentcad 10-19-11 09:04 PM


Originally Posted by Falchoon (Post 13388650)
Paging Pcad....

I don't care.

hammy56 10-19-11 09:07 PM

liar.

thirdgenbird 10-19-11 09:27 PM


Originally Posted by ilovecycling (Post 13388781)
I don't see them using a proprietary hub design. That would be a huge drawback for a lot of people that might otherwise be willing to buy it.

I also wonder why they can't make a Shimano 8/9/10 speed hub work. They use a spacer as it is to work with 10-speed cassettes since the 10-speed cassette is narrower than the 8 and 9 speed cassettes. Why couldn't they use the full width of a 8/9/10 speed hub and bring the cogs a little closer together while using a narrower chain just like Campy? I'm not a wheel builder and haven't studied the different hub designs very much, so maybe I'm missing something here.

reportedly it took campagnolo a good deal of time to develop a reliable 11spd chain. in order for shimano to go to 11spd on the current freehub they would have to have a smaller sprocket pitch than campy 11spd and an even narrower chain. couple this with shimano's inferior cassette spline it would only make sense for them to bite the bullet and change. the boys over in italy are probably glad that they did this back in the 9spd days.

something makes me think that campagnolo has a patent on their "cantilevered 11th cog". if this is true, i can think of three options for shimano.

1. make the wheel wider (requiring new frames)
2. make the freehub body wider than campagnolo (obsoleting wheels and creating even more dish)
3. licensing some, or all of campagnolo's design

option 3 is a win for everyone. wheels are instantly available for shimano 11spd buyers. most current wheels can be converted. shimano owners get the much more reliable cog spline. campagnolo owners get better wheel/cassette/chain availability. neutral wheel support becomes easier.

campagnolo also filed for a patent on 12spd but due to the timing it looks like it may have been an attempt to protect 11spd:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_atrK-jBKJK...pplication.bmp

ilovecycling 10-19-11 09:41 PM

Thanks for the explanation, thirdgenbird. I knew there had to be a reason why they couldn't use their current hub design...just wasn't sure what it was. I agree that they should just use a Campy setup to make all our lives easier.

echotraveler 10-19-11 09:54 PM

11 speed electronic!

thirdgenbird 10-19-11 09:54 PM


Originally Posted by ilovecycling (Post 13388998)
Thanks for the explanation, thirdgenbird. I knew there had to be a reason why they couldn't use their current hub design...just wasn't sure what it was. I agree that they should just use a Campy setup to make all our lives easier.

im not saying they couldnt use their current design. it would just require a chain much narrower than campagnolo's 5.5mm unit.

Dean V 10-20-11 12:07 AM

10 is enough IMHO. 11 will just create compatibility, redundancy, and reliability issues just to get another gear that we don't need.

Psimet2001 10-20-11 12:32 AM

knew something was up when I saw Brad Sohner tweet it earlier today, "Do we really need 11 speed drivetrains? Maybe you need an extra training ride instead of an extra cog." He runs part of Bike Rumor and is a pro race announcer similar to our own Event Services...

rooftest 10-20-11 01:21 AM

Meh. By then, my Di2 will be 4 years old.

patentcad 10-20-11 02:20 AM


Originally Posted by hammy56 (Post 13388868)
liar.

Correct.

roadwarrior 10-20-11 03:15 AM


Originally Posted by Psimet2001 (Post 13389427)
knew something was up when I saw Brad Sohner tweet it earlier today, "Do we really need 11 speed drivetrains? Maybe you need an extra training ride instead of an extra cog." He runs part of Bike Rumor and is a pro race announcer similar to our own Event Services...

Yeah, exactly.

roadwarrior 10-20-11 03:17 AM


Originally Posted by patentcad (Post 13388859)
I don't care.

Please. You probably gave the bike shop guys 20% down to get the first one. LOL.

patentcad 10-20-11 04:50 AM

11 speeds is well beyond my limited mental capacity. 10 speeds pushes the very outer edges of my brain envelope as it is.

onespeedfreak 10-20-11 06:11 AM

It's just that time of year for the radom rumor mill to get started... happens this time every year after the trade shows. The "what's next" guessing game gets started.

DropDeadFred 10-20-11 06:16 AM

edit: 11spd is pointless

Butcher 10-20-11 06:51 AM

Cuz you do not have it. You will someday and just like 5-6, 6-7, 7-8, 8-9, 9-10, trust me, you all will and you will like it.

echotraveler 10-20-11 06:58 AM

Rumors are fun, 10 years ago elctronic was pointless... Now we all drool for it. Even if your a nay sayer, you secretly want a piece of that!!!


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