Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

2012 Di2 to be 11 speed?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

2012 Di2 to be 11 speed?

Old 10-19-11, 05:35 PM
  #1  
gadabout007
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
2012 Di2 to be 11 speed?

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...for-2013-32091

Sounds like it will not be backwards compatible with 1st gen Di2
gadabout007 is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 05:41 PM
  #2  
datlas 
Beyond Bogus
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 28,806

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 399 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8956 Post(s)
Liked 173 Times in 111 Posts
2013 not 2012, I believe.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 07:27 PM
  #3  
eric01
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Jersey
Posts: 219

Bikes: Cervelo R3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Depends on what kind of changes they make. Could be theoretically done with a firmware upgrade. Of course if its 11 speed, you'd need a new cassette at the minimum. But really too early to speculate.
eric01 is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 08:09 PM
  #4  
Falchoon
Senior Member
 
Falchoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Paging Pcad....

Falchoon is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 08:16 PM
  #5  
Mithrandir
Senior Member
 
Mithrandir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 2,399

Bikes: 2012 Surly LHT, 1995 GT Outpost Trail

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gadabout007 View Post
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...for-2013-32091

Sounds like it will not be backwards compatible with 1st gen Di2
I have absolutely no doubt that someone will figure out how to hack it to use 11 speeds. That's the beauty of a digital system, after all. Just program the derailleur stops at different locations and add one.
Mithrandir is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 08:19 PM
  #6  
thirdgenbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,107
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
using campagnolo's freehub body and and cog spacing would be in everyone's best interest
thirdgenbird is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 08:38 PM
  #7  
DinoShepherd
cycle-dog spot
 
DinoShepherd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,539

Bikes: Look, Niner, Ellsworth, Norco, Litespeed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
way more jacked about the light discs brakes...
DinoShepherd is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 08:43 PM
  #8  
ilovecycling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: RTP, NC
Posts: 2,190

Bikes: LOOK 595 & Cannondale CAAD9

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't see them using a proprietary hub design. That would be a huge drawback for a lot of people that might otherwise be willing to buy it.

I also wonder why they can't make a Shimano 8/9/10 speed hub work. They use a spacer as it is to work with 10-speed cassettes since the 10-speed cassette is narrower than the 8 and 9 speed cassettes. Why couldn't they use the full width of a 8/9/10 speed hub and bring the cogs a little closer together while using a narrower chain just like Campy? I'm not a wheel builder and haven't studied the different hub designs very much, so maybe I'm missing something here.
ilovecycling is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 09:04 PM
  #9  
patentcad
Peloton Shelter Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,446

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Falchoon View Post
Paging Pcad....
I don't care.
__________________
http://www.cotsiscad.com
patentcad is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 09:07 PM
  #10  
hammy56
coffee-stained punk
 
hammy56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
liar.
hammy56 is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 09:27 PM
  #11  
thirdgenbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,107
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ilovecycling View Post
I don't see them using a proprietary hub design. That would be a huge drawback for a lot of people that might otherwise be willing to buy it.

I also wonder why they can't make a Shimano 8/9/10 speed hub work. They use a spacer as it is to work with 10-speed cassettes since the 10-speed cassette is narrower than the 8 and 9 speed cassettes. Why couldn't they use the full width of a 8/9/10 speed hub and bring the cogs a little closer together while using a narrower chain just like Campy? I'm not a wheel builder and haven't studied the different hub designs very much, so maybe I'm missing something here.
reportedly it took campagnolo a good deal of time to develop a reliable 11spd chain. in order for shimano to go to 11spd on the current freehub they would have to have a smaller sprocket pitch than campy 11spd and an even narrower chain. couple this with shimano's inferior cassette spline it would only make sense for them to bite the bullet and change. the boys over in italy are probably glad that they did this back in the 9spd days.

something makes me think that campagnolo has a patent on their "cantilevered 11th cog". if this is true, i can think of three options for shimano.

1. make the wheel wider (requiring new frames)
2. make the freehub body wider than campagnolo (obsoleting wheels and creating even more dish)
3. licensing some, or all of campagnolo's design

option 3 is a win for everyone. wheels are instantly available for shimano 11spd buyers. most current wheels can be converted. shimano owners get the much more reliable cog spline. campagnolo owners get better wheel/cassette/chain availability. neutral wheel support becomes easier.

campagnolo also filed for a patent on 12spd but due to the timing it looks like it may have been an attempt to protect 11spd:
thirdgenbird is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 09:41 PM
  #12  
ilovecycling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: RTP, NC
Posts: 2,190

Bikes: LOOK 595 & Cannondale CAAD9

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the explanation, thirdgenbird. I knew there had to be a reason why they couldn't use their current hub design...just wasn't sure what it was. I agree that they should just use a Campy setup to make all our lives easier.
ilovecycling is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 09:54 PM
  #13  
echotraveler
Senior Member
 
echotraveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
11 speed electronic!
echotraveler is offline  
Old 10-19-11, 09:54 PM
  #14  
thirdgenbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,107
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ilovecycling View Post
Thanks for the explanation, thirdgenbird. I knew there had to be a reason why they couldn't use their current hub design...just wasn't sure what it was. I agree that they should just use a Campy setup to make all our lives easier.
im not saying they couldnt use their current design. it would just require a chain much narrower than campagnolo's 5.5mm unit.
thirdgenbird is offline  
Old 10-20-11, 12:07 AM
  #15  
Dean V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,453
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 848 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 51 Times in 34 Posts
10 is enough IMHO. 11 will just create compatibility, redundancy, and reliability issues just to get another gear that we don't need.
Dean V is offline  
Old 10-20-11, 12:32 AM
  #16  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,614

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 612 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 28 Posts
knew something was up when I saw Brad Sohner tweet it earlier today, "Do we really need 11 speed drivetrains? Maybe you need an extra training ride instead of an extra cog." He runs part of Bike Rumor and is a pro race announcer similar to our own Event Services...
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 10-20-11, 01:21 AM
  #17  
rooftest
Despite all my rage, I am
 
rooftest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,613

Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Colnago C-50

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Meh. By then, my Di2 will be 4 years old.
rooftest is offline  
Old 10-20-11, 02:20 AM
  #18  
patentcad
Peloton Shelter Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,446

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
liar.
Correct.
__________________
http://www.cotsiscad.com
patentcad is offline  
Old 10-20-11, 03:15 AM
  #19  
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,641

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
knew something was up when I saw Brad Sohner tweet it earlier today, "Do we really need 11 speed drivetrains? Maybe you need an extra training ride instead of an extra cog." He runs part of Bike Rumor and is a pro race announcer similar to our own Event Services...
Yeah, exactly.
roadwarrior is offline  
Old 10-20-11, 03:17 AM
  #20  
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,641

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
I don't care.
Please. You probably gave the bike shop guys 20% down to get the first one. LOL.
roadwarrior is offline  
Old 10-20-11, 04:50 AM
  #21  
patentcad
Peloton Shelter Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,446

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
11 speeds is well beyond my limited mental capacity. 10 speeds pushes the very outer edges of my brain envelope as it is.
__________________
http://www.cotsiscad.com
patentcad is offline  
Old 10-20-11, 06:11 AM
  #22  
onespeedfreak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It's just that time of year for the radom rumor mill to get started... happens this time every year after the trade shows. The "what's next" guessing game gets started.
onespeedfreak is offline  
Old 10-20-11, 06:16 AM
  #23  
DropDeadFred
Senior Member
 
DropDeadFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,429

Bikes: 2013 orca

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
edit: 11spd is pointless
DropDeadFred is offline  
Old 10-20-11, 06:51 AM
  #24  
Butcher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, WA
Posts: 495

Bikes: 2005 S-Works SR Equipped,1978 Tom Ritchie Road bike, Kuwahara Tandem

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Cuz you do not have it. You will someday and just like 5-6, 6-7, 7-8, 8-9, 9-10, trust me, you all will and you will like it.
Butcher is offline  
Old 10-20-11, 06:58 AM
  #25  
echotraveler
Senior Member
 
echotraveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rumors are fun, 10 years ago elctronic was pointless... Now we all drool for it. Even if your a nay sayer, you secretly want a piece of that!!!
echotraveler is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.