How aero would I need to go to feel a difference? (wheels)
 

So when looking at wheels, I started just wanting light as I can get. Weight savings isn't hard coming from a pair of fulcrum 7's around 1900-2000gr. Now after using the search button...yes I used it but still want more info. Im thinking I want to go more aero. Heres the thing how deep do they have to be to feel/achieve a difference? Looking at;
-Soul S3.0 SL 31mm 1400gr
-November 38mm carbon clincher 1370gr

Should I keep looking in this range or move onto something like a 50mm? Im only 140lb, so are 50mm's going to blow me around a lot in crosswinds? I ride a good mix of flats and hills, some days more hills then anything and do group rides as well. Budget is right in the range of the wheels I mentioned, $500-$900.

Get a time trial helmet and aerobars. Would make you much more aero than adding 2-3 cm of rim depth.

38m are a perfect aero upgrade for all around use. You will probably feel it mostly in the turns coming out of a fast decent or something of the likes. Unless you are ricing seriously, I think 50's and 80's are too much. (Just IMO) Not that they don't look super nice, I think the 38's a wiser all around choice.

how fast are you going? i don't think you'll perceive much around 30 kmh, but in the 40's perhaps.

I just went wheel shopping and was in a very similar position. I didn't care for an aero design as it looks fancy (you might want it for that reason). Aero is mostly for time trials.

The Williams System 30's are highly praised and toward the bottom of your range. $500ish.

I picked up a set of Shimano Dura Ace 7850 C24's from ebay for $600. Its a good time to shop used.

OP i believe in most instances aero = placebo

how about buying tough light rims?

scientifically i have no data, emotionally i believe people buy aero rims too look fast. Don't this rims give a performance help at 24mph and up?

Whether the aero makes a difference or not, he will notice the upgrade in the wheels for sure. Especially losing over 400 grams on the Cheap side.

Most of my rides avg 18-19mph over a 25-30 mile ride. If I climb a lot 17ish. If I ride with some of my hammerhead friends on group rides its not rare to get a paceline at 27-30mph going in the flats. Those speeds don't last to long though.

OP has a bunch of questions.

1. How aero (or how tall)? With a well designed rim, i.e. Zipp or the like, you can get aero at lower than 58/60mm heights. I think it's hard to get aero benefits below that; just go light. At 46mm (Reynolds) I didn't think I got much more aero - my top speeds weren't much higher.
2. How tall to get aero? Well, first off, the front wheel affects drag more, so a taller front wheel makes sense. I used to ride a TriSpoke (i.e. HED3) front and a spoked rear (Eurus or Spinergy). Problem is the front wheel also affects stability, so going too tall can be problematic.
3. Rear wheel - you can go as tall as you want. I've ridden a disk wheel in back in very windy conditions, no problem. Put it on the front - it's a problem. So you can go 60/80/90/100mm, whatever you want. A tall rear wheel stabilizes you, at least in a straight line.
4. Crosswinds - again, it's also a function of rim shape, not just height. My 60mm HED Stingers feel fine in up to 30 mph gusts (albeit on flatter roads, so max speed about 45 mph). I felt just as insecure at 45 mph on my 60mm HED Jets as I did on my 46mm Reynolds, in similar conditions (extremely gusty winds - drafting an 18 wheeler).

If I were to get one set of wheels, if I didn't spend a lot of fun time over 30 mph (in other words, I try and go over 30 and it's a lot of fun, and I'll sacrifice 15 minutes of steady speed in order to get one minute of fast speed), I'd get whatever lightest wheels I could get, just because they'll lighten the bike, accelerate quicker to 40 mph, and not penalize me significantly under 28-30 mph.

If I liked going over 30 mph, even if only for seconds at a time, if I liked going as fast as possible, I'd get aero wheels, but I'd try and keep the weight under 1600g, just so there's still some acceleration in there somewhere. If I couldn't get that, I'd get light non-aero wheels.

I have light aero (60mm rims), light non-aero, and heavier aero (60/90mm front/rear), all HEDs, with all the aero rims shaped well for crosswinds. I prefer them in the order I listed them.

I picked up a set of Shimano Dura Ace 7850 C24's from ebay for $600. Its a good time to shop used.[/QUOTE]
You May have been the one that out bid me recently. Damn you :not amused:.haha jk

You need 52mm wheels. You're welcome.

IMO, you won't be able to feel a thing WRT more aero wheels except the increased effect of crosswinds on your steering and stability. They will have a measurable if not perceptible effect in higher speed time trials.

I may be able to weigh in here, so to speak.

I recently switched from typical wheels to 38mm depth carbon clinchers.

I would say I really notice a difference on descents, say above 30MPH.

There is a small but definite difference at moderate speed, say 22 or 23 MPH.

At "easy cruising" speed of say 18MPH there is not any real difference that I can notice.

I chose the 38mm because I only weigh 145 pounds and wanted wheels that could handle crosswinds....there were 25MPH crosswinds last weekend which were no problem.

I hope that helps.

p.s. if you can stretch your budget to a grand, consider the williams 38's which are what I have.

I picked up a pair of Soul C5.0's (50mm depth) in late February and my experience lines up with datlas'. My older wheelset was a set of Mavic Aksiums. I weigh 143lbs.

I do find that it's easier to maintain higher speeds but I don't really notice much of a difference under 20mph. Around 25mph is where you start noticing it more, but it's still not earth-shattering. I find it is easier to keep the same speed in a paceline than with my Aksiums, sometimes I have to get out of the draft a little more than with my Aksiums when I find I'm getting a little too close to the rider in front of me.

Re: crosswinds. I'm relatively light weight-wise, and I did notice a difference between my Aksiums and the Soul 5.0's in windy conditions. It's not like I was getting blown all over the road, though. Crosswinds were only a (small) problem on fast downhills. You just have to get better at bike handling. Took me a few weeks to get used to it, but now I'm fine. I do find that when I'm getting close to 50mph I start becoming a little twitchy, but I think that has more to do with my poor descending skills than with the depth of the wheels.

I do love the wheels. High quality hubs, lighter than my Aksiums (my particular C5.0's came in at 1410grams on my home scale), and 50mm depth that is noticable to me at speeds >22ish mph. They're a little over your budget, but in general, a deeper rim won't necessarily blow a lighter rider all over the road.

Bonktown.com has had Reynolds DV3K Clinchers for $899 pretty frequently lately. Might be a good option for you.

I just got a set of light weight 50mm wheels and I weigh 145 lbs. On my ride today, felt like a piñata with all the wind. I think at over 20 mph, I might feel the tiniest difference. Like datlas said I do feel some difference at 30+ mph though

Don't forget that some aero can be picked up relatively cheap/free by working on your core/flexibility and getting your stem/bar as low as possible to make for a more aero position when riding down in the drops.

OP, only listen to people who actually own aero rims....if you have never ridden on anything aero, you can't really add to this thread.
OK, that said, I have a set of November 58mm's a set of Zipp 404 clinchers and a set of Reynolds Assault carbon clinchers. I think the reynolds are the best for all around riding since they are light (around 1450g), feel great, are stiff and are faster than my (granted) non aero Mavic R-sys wheels.
The 58mm november wheels are great since they are lighter than the zipps but seem to be as fast. I use them for crit racing and like them a lot. I use the zipps or reynolds for road races unless it's flat and calm winds.
I feel that the zipps and november's keep their speed very well and the reynolds are a bit faster to get there. For crosswinds the reynolds are the best since they are more shallow. I'm 5'10 and 168lbs...
I think the 38mm novembers are a great idea. I wa thinking of getting some for myself and selling the r-sys wheels. PLus carbon aero wheels look good.

Just got an email from sean at soul. He has S2.0 and 3.0's in stock and ready to ship. I really like the novembers but there on the high end of my budget and Id like to new tires and some other things. From what most of you guys are saying aero really comes into play around 50mm+ an the effect isn't huge. I really didn't want to go that deep plus theres not very many options in my budget. With that being said what doe you guys think between these souls?
-S2.0 1330gr 25mm
-S3.0 1400gr 31mm
and Hell Ill throw these out there sS4.0 1700gr 41mm
All these are the same price ($500 shipped) with the S4.0 like 20 bucks more. To me the 70gr difference of the 2.0 and 3.0's doesn't seem like much and I could make that up with lighter tires if I wanted to. And although 31mm isn't very aero maybe I can get some of that great Placebo affect I hear so much about :).

Thanks for all the input BTW, lots of good info.

A common misunderstanding. Aero wheels help at all speeds and the relative advantage is greater at slower as opposed to faster speed.

I'm too tired to explain but there are lots of informative posts here if you want more info

jherch, anyone telling you they can "feel" a difference in speed when comparing aero wheels to non aero wheels is talking BS.
The difference is there but it is so small it can not be instantly "felt".
An aero wheelset will save you a few to a bit more than a few seconds over let's say 20k ... that's it.
A lighter wheelset will save you some time on hilly courses and will speed up faster ... that can actually be felt but even then the difference is small at best.

Yes

You May have been the one that out bid me recently. Damn you :not amused:.haha jk[/QUOTE]
Here is a set of the 6700 C-24's for under 400 with shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-WH-6...item19c960ec7c

The 7900's are like $1100

Adela, this is entirely depending on what wheels you are coming from. If you can't feel the difference between some Araya/Allexx Wheels and a pair of zips aero or not, you shouldn't be riding or at least concerning yourself with wheels at all. Yes, it is usually the radial weight that makes the difference in feel due to spinning up faster and overall carrying less weight. I'm not saying that you would most likely notice the big difference between 32mm and 38mm wheels, but going from a 24mm rim to a 38mm is a pretty significant difference. I am sure much of the affect will be placebo, but there is not denying just how powerful the placebo affect CAN be. ;)